Hg Issue 1Ad And 2Ad Engines

[JAPCAR]

Reading forum often mentioned that AD engines have risk of HG problem developing usually after 80K miles.

That's why I would like to ask some questions to clarify this issue:

1.Why just AD, not CD engines have problem and why 2AD are more affected then 1AD...?

2. What is the probability to happen? I know just Toyota can say statistics 1 of 100 or 10 of 100...but if somebody knows...

3. What is the problem- poor gasket or head quality or driving style, I mean often/long high/over reving...?

4. What are first symptoms you can recognize problem is coming? After first symptoms what time pases when problem become obvious, I mean mayo oil and overheating?

5. Why Toyota replace engine instead changing just HG after check and finish the head if needs?

I think answers would be useful for many AD owners.

[Davrav]

Have read through this:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/132178-charliefarlies-guide-to-the-toyota-2ad-diesel-engine-and-its-issues/

[Heidfirst]

2. Only Toyota know the exact figures & they aren't telling. I think that it's probably low single figure percent (e.g.2-3%) based on some figures that were put on the forum purporting to come from somebody in the know & a guesstimate of total nos. of engines in the wild.

3. there is a suggestion that the quality of UK fuel has something to do with it

5. Toyota say that you can't skim these heads. Initially they rebuilt engines at dealers but switched to replacements (minus ancillaries) possibly because some dealers rebuilds weren't up to spec. & failed.

[Mistermena]

Some say its due to the original metal used in the HG from factory when the engines came off production line reacting to the coolant.

As Said above... It's due to the fuel quality that we have over here! Something which I don't subscribe to.

The reason why Toyota don't skim and changed the HG is because of carbon stamping causing HG shuffle. 💣🔨🔩🔧💷💳

[JAPCAR]

Some say its due to the original metal used in the HG from factory when the engines came off production line reacting to the coolant.

If this is problem, when Toyota have realized it, would recall all affected cars, replacing HG and coolant before big damage...

I can't see relations between fuel quality and HG. All diesels use the same fuel without similar problem. Does this issue exist in other countries outside UK?

[Mistermena]

You would have thought that Toyota would have done this! But for some reason(They must have know this would take years and ex amount of mileage) they played the waiting game! Knowing that a lot of owners might not have the car that long or not knowing about the warranty!

In Toyota's defence though is they did put in a FOC warranty to cover the major issues! But if you didn't know about it you'd be bu&&ered!

I wonder if Toyota ever wrote a 📩 to all the owners of cars fitted with the 2AD engines telling then of the situation and advising them of a warrant in place to cover? Or have this through VOSA or media?📺📻📠

Maybe someone knows more about this?😕

[Mistermena]

I'm not sure if the fuel problem exists outside the UK! ⛽That why I always use Shell V-Power love juice in all my cars, with either BG244 (every 12k) and Archoil 6200 in the fuel!... Is it an overkill??? Quite probably yes! 😗 But I would rather spend a bit now than loads later on fuel pumps/injectors ect in the future!

Prevention is better than cure. 🏁😋

[Luthier]

My 64000 mile 2008 2 litre diesel Avensis had the oil burning issue identified by my local Toyota dealer. A month or so after they'd serviced it, it went in for an MOT - it passed but they said it might be using too much oil. After topping it up and returning as requested after 1000 miles they confirmed that oil consumption was too high. I hadn't noticed and as far as I was concerned the engine was running well.

They replaced the engine with a Toyota reconditioned one under the extended warranty and lent me a new Yaris for the three days they had it. My Avensis was returned in immaculate condition. I've looked carefully at the work they've done and every clip and pipe was exactly as it should be. Apart from the engine serial number changing and the engine block looking spotlessly clean I wouldn't have known they'd done any work at all. I had to inform the DVLA of the change but apart from that it was absolutely no problem for me.

The new engine runs beautifully - even quieter and smoother than before. As you might imagine, I'm extremely satisfied by Toyota's attitude to the original design fault.

By the way I've almost always used Shell fuel and often the V-Power version so it didn't help me on this occasion but the Toyota foreman did comment that the injectors were very clean - he often sees them carboned up if supermarket fuel is used regularly.

[Mistermena]

Proof is there using the GTL fuels like Shell! 🚗💨👏👀

[Heidfirst]

"I wonder if Toyota ever wrote a 📩 to all the owners of cars fitted with the 2AD engines telling then of the situation and advising them of a warrant in place to cover? Or have this through VOSA or media?📺📻📠"

I doubt it. If failures truly are 2-3% then it's much cheaper to deal with them as they arise.

Not to mention the PR disaster & possible affect on sales of current vehicles.

P.S. Taff, I keep seeing squares in some of your posts as above - are these emoticons & if so I wonder do other people see them as squares as well or do they see them properly?

[Exvec]

P.S. Taff, I keep seeing squares in some of your posts as above - are these emoticons & if so I wonder do other people see them as squares as well or do they see them properly?

Scott,i am seeing them as squares as well.

[Mistermena]

My iPhone sees them as what I've done! But I'm doing everything on my phone atm as my laptop has given up the ghost...

[Toyotaletdown]

Hi just joined the forum to get the word out to all Toyota owners **BEWARE** Toyota is pulling the wool over our eves. I have recently been in contact with the CEO Matt Harrison about a fault with the 1AD and 2AD engines fitted to Avensis, Rav 4, Yaris and Verso with production dates between 2005 and 2009. There is a problem with the piston rings and pistons in these engines they are of a very poor quality and this causes oil to pass which in turn overheats the head and causes carbon build up which warps the head and causes the head gasket to go, also the manifold and EGR valve gets blocked with carbon. Oil consumption is reduced to 0.5 litres within 500 miles (this could only be this severere after a long time, the head gasket and EGR valve will probably get blocked before this is evident). Fuel consumption will drop once the head gasket has gone due to low compression. I have a warranty bulletin issued by Toyota extending the warranty because of this fault to 7 years or just under 112,000 miles but this is subject to a retail customer complaint, in other words if you take your car in for a service and they notice it has used over 0.5 litres they will just top it up and say nothing too you about the fault and let you go on your merry way until like me your car is just out of warranty and they will do nothing to help you out. Toyota wont just fix the head gasket because they cant guarantee the 12 month warranty they have to offer you, they wont sell you the OPTIFIT engine because if you get someone to fit it or fit it your self again they cant legally offer you the 24 month warranty. You cant sell it because nobody in their right mind will buy it so your left with a car that is only worth its value in scrap. If Toyota were to fit the engine it will cost you £3700.00 if your car is outside the gesture of good will warranty. However | have just received a reply back from Toyota after I threatened to go to the media and they told me that the warranty which they extended as a gesture of good will can be withdrawn at any time. If you own any of the cars I have listed I urge you to check your head gasket, EGR valve and fuel and oil consumption on a regular basis and if in any doubt ASK!!!!!!!!!! your dealer why? (Head gaskets are identified by frothy oil or over pressurising of the header tank a white residue will be obvious from the cap and/or white smoke will come out from the exhaust). I bought my car second hand from a dealer (Not Toyota) it had a full Toyota history up to 90,000 miles and serviced by reputable garages up to 120,000 miles (current millage). I am taking the garage to a small claims court for selling me a faulty car under the "Sale of goods act 1979 (Amended) for selling me a faulty car because of this inherent manufacturing fault. If anyone knows of anyone or has also taken the same measures I would be interested to know about it, if not watch this space I will post the warranty bulletin once I have scanned it in for you all to look at, in the mean time get your car down to the dealers and get it checked out NOW!!!!

[FROSTYBALLS]

The head gasket failures would not have been considered a safety issue by VOSA, so they would not have been involved - and this would make it difficult for Toyota to identify existing owners.

[Mistermena]

Many thanks for your post! But we are all well aware of the problems that can occur with the Polish built 2AD unit! HG issues and carbon stamping causing shuffle ect.

It's been talked about to death on here! There is a very good write up from forum member "CharlieFarley" all about it... :)

[Heidfirst]

If it's the April 2011 Warranty Bulletin we already have it - but we also know that it has been superceded.

& the Yaris isn't affected but the Auris is.

[Awebb180]

"ToyotaLetDown" the info is all over the net and esp this forum. You might find that not all dealers are the same and they go checking the cars known to be in the affected range in case the customer hasnt noticed the issue.

From Toyota's point of view a goodwill gesture of 7y/112k which is 5 years more than the original warranty is very good. Not all AD engined cars suffer, there is no rhyme or reason

Alex

[boboo]

I heard ( but might be wrong) it was down to the sixth gear getting used to early by fuel conscious drivers labouring the engine and coking up the combustion chambers,

very little tolerance in there for any build up of anything

bit of carbon scoring on cylinders and sticking rings

bit of excess oil consumption

bit of accelerated combustion chamber build up

bit of piston mash up ( probably as referred to carbon stamping earlier) that really knocks the stuffing out the head and gasket.

hey

who knows its all hear say , ive never inspected one.

[Steve84]

I was told by the dealer when my engine was replaced, that the failure was caused by excessive oil consumption leading to excessive carbon build up. The top of the piston would be covered in carbon resulting in that contacting the head leading to shuffling and then failure.

[Steve84]

Just to add to the oil consumption issue and head gaskets, My dpf failed. toyota tried to avoid paying for it saying it was a carbon issue. I was lucky to have a copy of the services bulleting. I just asked if a car burnt oil at the rate of 2 litres per 700 miles wont that produce excess carbon. I was put on hold, few minutes later toyota agreed to pay for a new dpf.

[JAPCAR]

I heard ( but might be wrong) it was down to the sixth gear getting used to early by fuel conscious drivers labouring the engine and coking up the combustion chambers,

In short, do you mean regular using low revs is the main problem? ...or other opinion - long using high revs leading to overheating the head?

Which is more correctly? I mean what driving stile should be used?

I thing most of the time my revs are 1600-2100 ( when constant driving) regardless which gear engaged. I reach 2500-3000 just accelerating.

[JAPCAR]

I was told by the dealer when my engine was replaced, that the failure was caused by excessive oil consumption leading to excessive carbon build up. The top of the piston would be covered in carbon resulting in that contacting the head leading to shuffling and then failure.

Does it mean (general conclusion) in danger are the engines with excessive oil consumption but those without oil consumption are safe?

[Toyotaletdown]

Hi posted on here the other day about my avensis having the high oil consumption problem. My car has lasted 13,000 miles before it gave up the ghost but I was blissfully unaware that there was an extended warranty and Toyota did no recalls or informed the owners that there was a problem.

Has anyone challenged Toyota about this problem after there car was out of warranty and had any success?

There is not a lot of information about this fault only hear say and peoples opinions

Has Toyota actually admitted there is a fault with these engines?

My next step is taking the garage I bought it from to the small claims court under breach of contract under the sale of goods act 1979 (amended) for selling me a faulty car.

My problem is I have to prove that this fault was with the car, I believe that the piston rings and pistons were of a poor quality which causes the fault and I also think that 130,000 from an engine is not sufficient for it to be wear and tear I mean engines just don't fail its everything else around them that goes.

Does anyone have any official information from Toyota all I have is the warranty bulletin issued which does not outline the fault only that it will cover vehicles showing particular symptoms e.g carbon clogging, high oil consumption and head gasket.

Toyota have really annoyed me about this I was even thinking about holding a protest at there Derby factory they are admitting to nothing and the extended warranty does not go far enough like I said a well maintained engine will not fail within 500,000 miles its the ancillary's or bodywork that goes well before the actual engine.

Guys any help on this would be appreciated especially if there is anyone who has taken a garage to the small claims court under sale of goods act and won

The thing that really annoys me is I just spent 700 pound on other bits and bobs before this happened. the cost to me to have the optifit engine fitted is £3640

Thanks

Daz

[Steve84]

I was told by the dealer when my engine was replaced, that the failure was caused by excessive oil consumption leading to excessive carbon build up. The top of the piston would be covered in carbon resulting in that contacting the head leading to shuffling and then failure.

Does it mean (general conclusion) in danger are the engines with excessive oil consumption but those without oil consumption are safe?

Its a common problem with the AD series engines 1ad ftv, 2ad ftv and 2ad fhv (these being 1ad(2.0) 2ad(2.2) . Build date Avensis april 2005 to feb 2009 rav4 july 2005 to december 2008 auris september 2006 to september 2009 and verso april 2005 to november 2008. I've had a new engine 7k ago due to erratic tick over turned out the engine was consuming oil and causing the egr valve to clog up, also the car was in continual regeneration mode. The under cover warranty is for cars aged to 7 years old or 111846 miles with service history. The conditions covered 1. oil consumption worse than 0.5 litres per 621 miles. 2. over heating and head gasket failure due to carbon deposits on the pistons. Toyota also for other out of warranty claims regarding the ad series engines would accept the following as being linked to a oil consumtion issue due to carbon clogging, egr valve, dpnr, 5th injector, egr cooler, blocked manifold. I managed to come across this information from a toyota warranty bulletin. Hope this helps all owners who's car is fitted with a AD series engine.

[JAPCAR]

OK this is true but not all mentioned in danger AD engines develop the problem so I'll repeat the question:

Does it mean in danger are just AD the engines with
excessive oil consumption but those without oil consumption are safe?

I mean if AD engine doesn't have excessive oil consumption till 80K miles for example, is it safe for the future?