Plug-In Prius, Some Questions.

[dickfineman]

Thinking of getting a Pip soon. Just a few questions for some of you who have had one for a while:

1) I'll be using a heavy duty, outdoor extension lead with rcd protection which i know is safe from people on this forum and Prius Chat. But why all the doubt about safety when the pip charging lead displays Max 10 Amp ? With all the electronics and safe charging phases built in, why is there any doubt about safety when the max current seems to be about 8.5A ?

2) I know the EV distance displayed after charging is an estimate based on previous driving style etc but does the actual EV distance hold up to 12 miles or more even now its colder and after a year or so of use ? Under ideal driving conditions...mainly flat at 40 mph or less...is 15-20 miles possible ?

3) Is the 7 digit post code ok now on Touch and Go Plus ? And speed limits and cameras is all built in ?

Many thanks in advance for any expert feedback. I appreciate your help.

[aCactus]

In reverse order....

7 digit post code not fully implementyed, and where it is it may refuse to accept house number is valid for that code (code/number used to work with RAV4 but touch and go will not accept number).

I have never tried to find out how far I can go on a full charge, maximum I have done is about 6 miles in the summer. This morning the engine was running for most of my usual trip even though it takes a mile for useful heat to come from the heater I also had demisters/heated mirrors/heated seats swithed on.

Charging is really common sense but with today's no win no fee lawyers the instructions from Toyota are a bit OTT and so are British Gas when they install a homecharge point

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Because Toyota have no influence on the extension leads used. Is the owner using a fully rated 13 amp super duper one or a cheap n nasty one from eBay for £1.99?

Also, some house plugs are not up to standard and Toyota have no control over that. Is the owner charging via a brand new plug in a house with the latest earth systems rewired 5 years ago, or a dodgy bakerlite plug from 1961 in a garage 150 yards from the house with a dodgy earth.

Plug £1.99 extension lead in said 1961 plug and charge your car for 3 hours and the potential for a fire is high(er). Use sensible precautions with a top line extension lead in a brand new plug and the chances of problems are low.

There are reports on the Nissan Leaf forum of owners having hot plugs or hot leads when charging their car! It's only the same as draw as a fan heater but over 10 hours on dodgy wiring and you might have probs. It's not like a kettle that's only on for a few mins. The car is charging for hours.

It might be prudent getting your wiring checked if you're getting an EV or PIP. Sounds overkill, but I got mine checked and there were some earth issues in some plugs. All put right with a new RCD board and peace of mind now prevails.

[Chris Dance]

Get British Gas to install a proper plug in point for free. I have had it done and so have others on this forum and we do not own a plug in Prius. It was all done in 3 hours and that included the survey. The plug in point installed will charge the Plug In Prius and the Nissan leaf.

I would like a PIP but without a proper spare wheel I am very reluctant to get one.

[PeteB]

I had a plug in for the day last Saturday while my Prius was serviced - They had left it on charge all night, but the display said 9.5 miles - and that's what I got.

One thing that did surprise me, was that once it drops to normal HV mode after the EV charge ran out, even with 7 bars on the display it would not go into EV mode like a normal Prius would, which means if I wanted to move on a driveway to left someone out, I couldn't prevent the engine from running and wasting fuel.

[dickfineman]

I had a plug in for the day last Saturday while my Prius was serviced - They had left it on charge all night, but the display said 9.5 miles - and that's what I got.

One thing that did surprise me, was that once it drops to normal HV mode after the EV charge ran out, even with 7 bars on the display it would not go into EV mode like a normal Prius would, which means if I wanted to move on a driveway to left someone out, I couldn't prevent the engine from running and wasting fuel.

Hi PeteB,

Ive owned a Gen 3 and i remember EV mode being inactive for all sorts of reasons. Do you think it was the cold engine after being in full EV mode for a while ? Thanks.

[PeteB]

I had a plug in for the day last Saturday while my Prius was serviced - They had left it on charge all night, but the display said 9.5 miles - and that's what I got.

One thing that did surprise me, was that once it drops to normal HV mode after the EV charge ran out, even with 7 bars on the display it would not go into EV mode like a normal Prius would, which means if I wanted to move on a driveway to left someone out, I couldn't prevent the engine from running and wasting fuel.

Hi PeteB,

Ive owned a Gen 3 and i remember EV mode being inactive for all sorts of reasons. Do you think it was the cold engine after being in full EV mode for a while ? Thanks.

Hi dickfineman

No. I drove 27 miles to home from the dealer, so the engine had been running a lot, especially on the dual carriage way for the last few miles, so it would have been quite warm.

As it had 7 bars I instinctively hit the EV button while I maneuvered around my drive as I would in my Gen 3. I tried it several times later in the day when I'm sure my car would have taken it.

[kithmo]

did you have the heater on ?

The temp you set the heat at makes a difference too.

[aCactus]

If you have 6 bars on display in the PiP then you cannot use EV mode assuming you have started your journey with a solid display (switches to full set of bars when solid display is about a fifth). Once you start a journey with bars on display you cannot use EV until you put some electricity in via a charger to get back to a solid display.

[PeteB]

If you have 6 bars on display in the PiP then you cannot use EV mode assuming you have started your journey with a solid display (switches to full set of bars when solid display is about a fifth). Once you start a journey with bars on display you cannot use EV until you put some electricity in via a charger to get back to a solid display.

Thanks, you've confirmed what I suspected.

On my Gen 3 if I start with 6 bars, I can get to the village pub and back in EV mode and still have 4 bars left (just under ½ mile each way). It will still accept EV mode later on 4 bars. I like this because it means I don't run the engine cold quite as often for short trips, and the HV gets recharged on a longer trip when it's going to warm up anyway.

It just surprises me that although the "plug-in" portion of the HV charge has gone, it won't allow EV mode even though it appears to still have more charge than when my 'ordinary' Prius allows it.

[dickfineman]

Lots of talk about this topic...started by PeteB...also on PRIUSCHAT. Seems the PiP is much more complicated than Gen 3; even though the PiP has about 6 bars of ' ordinary ' Battery left, the ICE will start up but the Battery can still be called upon...battery (via the electric motor) and engine propulsion at low revs, to give an overall high efficiency. I think its also incentive to do what you're meant to do i.e.plug it in ! I know that many people have gained back the solid Battery with regenerative braking i.e. about 2 miles.

[PeteB]

I also felt the PIP had slightly more "engine braking" in ECO mode (that is, not in B mode) than my 'ordinary' Gen 3 too.

Whilst it still had the 'solid' ("I have some plug in range left as opposed to ordinary HV mode Battery range") gauge, I also noticed after braking down a hill the EV range estimate increased by .1-.2 miles occasionally.

[dickfineman]

Yes Pete, again that observation concurs with those on PriusChat. Definitely more powerful regeneration through braking on the PiP...some have got an extra mile or so in ECO mode and then seen the solid Battery reappear.

[dickfineman]

....but i do think you should be allowed to use up the bars on the HV Battery indicator before the engine comes on. I know the computer knows best...but im still as surprised as you were !

[PeteB]

Yes Pete, again that observation concurs with those on PriusChat. Definitely more powerful regeneration through braking on the PiP...some have got an extra mile or so in ECO mode and then seen the solid battery reappear.

Not sure I was quite clear - what I noticed most was more pronounced engine braking when just lifted off the accelerator, but not touching the brake pedal

[dickfineman]

Oh ok...simply engine braking. I think people are aware of this also in the US....again must be some energy recovery invoved.

[DMGbus]

Some Plug In Prius tips and observations:

Using the windscreen degogger will cause the petrol engine to start up even if high volt Battery is fully charged.

Remote control heating the car (eg. when at home / in the garage) will NOT work unless the engine is hot, ie. has been running burning petrol.

The above two points demonstrate that the only heating avalable (except HRW) is from running the petrol engine.

In Summer Battery range might be 13 miles, in Winter a lot less (eg. November 2013 = 10 miles).

The quoted 15.5 miles range can only be achieved by driving at 20mph all the time.

What the above tell us is that the Plug In Prius weakness is a low capacity high voltage Battery.

To defog the windscreen without the petrol engine being forced to start up, here's how: set temperature to "LO", select windscreen and footwell air direction, use ordinary fan (not windscreen defogger): this achieves an element of windscreen defogging without using petrol - unfortunately using the fan might knock a mile off the EV range (so 10 miles range in November becomes 9 miles range if fan is used). A byproduct of this is cool legs and feet - the price of having a low capacity HV battery and preferring not wanting to burn petrol to clear the windscreen / defog it.

When the engine DOES start up it will refuse to go back into EV mode until the engine has warmed up = wastes petrol (a workaround for this design defect is to switch the ignition off and on again to get back into EV mode assuming that there is still capacity in the high voltage battery).

To get away from the high-revving warming-up petrol engine doing this wastefully when going down hill or at rest, choose to change from EV mode to Hybrid mode when travelling uphill or accelerating - then the warming-up engine will be forced to do some useful work, ie. propel the car rather than merely warm the petrol engine up..

[DMGbus]

The Plug In Prius has limitations as stated above - the weak point is low HV Battery capacity.

Therefore would-be Plug In Prius owners might consider the alternatives that have better Battery range (and do not run a petrol enine to defog the windscreen or warm the car interior):

Chevrolet Volt / Vauxhall Ampera : these have the disadvantage of being too big for some household car garages (too long, too wide)

BMW i3 REX: Range (combined hybrid / EV), even with petrol its range is maybe less than half that of Plug In Prius

All of the above options have the further disadvantage of being only 4 seaters.

[dickfineman]

Thanks DMGbus for your help and advice...very useful.

[PeteB]

Using the windscreen defogger will cause the petrol engine to start up even if high volt battery is fully charged.

...

In Summer battery range might be 13 miles, in Winter a lot less (eg. November 2013 = 10 miles).

...

To defog the windscreen without the petrol engine being forced to start up, here's how: set temperature to "LO", select windscreen and footwell air direction, use ordinary fan (not windscreen defogger): this achieves an element of windscreen defogging without using petrol .

The 'ordinary' Prius also runs the petrol engine if the defrost/mist setting is selected - I leave mine on 18 (my usual temperature when my mother's not in the car!) and set the fans speed to one of the 2 slowest settings, usually enough to keep mist at bay.

If my 96 year old mother's in the car keeping the ICE off to conserve fuel is not an option.

When I borrowed a plugin for a day recently it had been on charge all night and the display range was 9.5 miles.

A real shame they didn't fit an electric heating element in the system like they did in the north American Gen 2.version. When plugged in it could have been set to have the car warmed in the morning with obvious advantages.

[PeteB]

BTW - can anyone with a PIP tell me if the 12V Battery gets charged as well when the car is plugged in?

Just wondered, as the 2007 Prius my old firm had converted to be 'pluggable' did just that.

[GreenJuice]

Can those with a UK PiP let me know if it has:

1. Reversing camera with those coloured guide lines to show the direction of car travel (as in the previous Gen 3 T-Spirits)

2. Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (also as in the previous Gen 3 T-Spirits)

Thanks.

[PeteB]

I don't own one, but had one on loan for a day recently - it doesn't have the guide lines or adaptive cruise control.

I believe the Gen 3 T-Spirits had ordinary cruise control unless ordered with the pre-crash safety system, which included the adaptive cruise.

None of the Gen 3 Prius now seem to have the guide lines, but strangely the Yaris (Hybrid and non Hybrid) that have the Touch & Go screen do, but they are fixed - that is, don't bend when you turn the wheel.

I believe I read a post somewhere on here recently that it's possible to swap the Yaris camera to get the lines as they're generated in the camera, but I don't think it's possible to get the moving lines now - I believe they were part of the old Hard Drive SatNav system.

[IanIanIanIan]

September 2013 PiP

Yes, the 12V Battery gets a float charge whilst plugged in. A higher voltage whilst the traction Battery is charging and a lower when that charge is complete.

No lines on the reversing camera (I think they are only with the parking assist) and no Dynamic Radar Cruise Control.

[Sagitar]

I don't own one, but had one on loan for a day recently - it doesn't have the guide lines or adaptive cruise control.

I believe the Gen 3 T-Spirits had ordinary cruise control unless ordered with the pre-crash safety system, which included the adaptive cruise.

None of the Gen 3 Prius now seem to have the guide lines, but strangely the Yaris (Hybrid and non Hybrid) that have the Touch & Go screen do, but they are fixed - that is, don't bend when you turn the wheel.

I believe I read a post somewhere on here recently that it's possible to swap the Yaris camera to get the lines as they're generated in the camera, but I don't think it's possible to get the moving lines now - I believe they were part of the old Hard Drive SatNav system.

I agree with Pete. Good summary.