Starter Motor Lead Question.

[CharlieFarlie]

There was a thread started a while ago about intermittent starter issues.

In the thread the OP spoke about loose leads and corrosion on those leads. Cleaning and re tightening apparently cured the slow starting .

That thread seems to have dissapeared.

A couple of us asked fro pictures but after trying to find the connections I can understand why pictures are not possible cos I cant even see the things.

Could anyone please post a PDF or diagram ?

I'm still not entirely happy at how my car starts even though I have fitted new glow plugs and a humungous Battery..

As finding a newer car is taking some time I'm thinking it may be time to sort this problem as a fail to start would be a big issue for me.

I have spotted this starter just in case my one needs changing. There are far cheaper alternatives but Bluepoint seem very good kit'

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190754296853?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Obviously I would prefer not to spend 300 nicker on a car Im looking to part with bit till I do I need a reliable car....

[Big Kev]

Brian The Fox came up with a cure the other day, Charlie, and it consisted of swing the EGR oot the way to reveal large plastic shrouded spade connector on the end of the Battery lead. This he was finding both loose and in need of a clean.

Furramore, did somebody else not find burnt out connections at starter motor solenoid yonks ago......?

[CharlieFarlie]

It could be the leads or could be the starter ? Nico posted the other day to say his one was cured by replacement but to replace would mean disconnecting the leads so could just have been those.. A PDF or diagram would tell me if its something I could do myself or if I need to take it onto a garage to get it checked out.. Car starts every time but Im convinced it aint right..

[CharlieFarlie]

Alternative starter here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221152942647?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

But is it to cheap to be any good ? I cant help it I just cant put carp on a car even if I'm selling it.. Daft really but that's just me.

[Big Kev]

It could be the leads or could be the starter ? Nico posted the other day to say his one was cured by replacement but to replace would mean disconnecting the leads so could just have been those.. A PDF or diagram would tell me if its something I could do myself or if I need to take it onto a garage to get it checked out.. Car starts every time but Im convinced it aint right..

Aye Charlie......battery lead to starter motor is the one.

[Guest]

Iirc, you can get a starter motor virtually rebuilt and fully tested on the bench, that's if you can find a good repair shop near you but I guess in the midlands/Birmingham you would be in the right area of the country to find someone local, but you may not like the downtime that it would have to be off the car and hence the car not available.

Gus

[CharlieFarlie]

Nah Gus downtime not an option as I have just the one car at the moment.. It is the fear of downtime that inspires getting this fixed mate !

[jizzer]

charlie that cheap recon starter motor address is 4 miles from me certainly no retail outlet on that road but thats not to say the goods are'nt ok ..... suppose its a case you pay your money you take your chances.....

[LeeADAB]

"The Fox" original missing post if useful......

Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:57 PM

Sorry in advance for doing it like this I can't search for some reason I had seen someone with a bad starting Rav4 2.2, he had tried everything including a tractor Battery, I have had the same problem on two customers Rav4's and in the end it was the main lead going to the starter motor, it was loose it was pig to get too, it live under the EGR valve you can flip up the front it's like the end of your thumb, but I have the knack of removing the all the grey plastic and putting a 12mm spanner on there, they were very loose and slighty corroded a good clean of the large LUG and the treminal and they now turn over like a jet engine

Good luck with yours Charlie!

[CharlieFarlie]

charlie that cheap recon starter motor address is 4 miles from me certainly no retail outlet on that road but thats not to say the goods are'nt ok ..... suppose its a case you pay your money you take your chances.....

Looking at the sellers terms and conditions shows...........

All automotive electrical items have no returns on them due to the nature of the item, this is standard practice with all motorfactors.

This is because another faulty unit on your car can damage or destroy the new unit.

So I would not buy from that supplier anyway..

[CharlieFarlie]

"The Fox" original missing post if useful......

Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:57 PM

Sorry in advance for doing it like this I can't search for some reason I had seen someone with a bad starting Rav4 2.2, he had tried everything including a tractor battery, I have had the same problem on two customers Rav4's and in the end it was the main lead going to the starter motor, it was loose it was pig to get too, it live under the EGR valve you can flip up the front it's like the end of your thumb, but I have the knack of removing the all the grey plastic and putting a 12mm spanner on there, they were very loose and slighty corroded a good clean of the large LUG and the treminal and they now turn over like a jet engine

Good luck with yours Charlie!

Yep that's the text ! And is why I think either looking or getting it looked at is the best way forward...

Cheers

[crofter]

Checking that main supply lead is easy Charlie.start at the Battery and locate the thick red one. this goes directly and uninterupted to the starter or I should say the soloniod mounted on the starter.

Wiggle each end (dead technical term that!!)and they should not move.At the side of this there is another lead that then goes into the main part of the starter and this should also be firmly clamped.

If there is any slackness at the lower end of the first lead and you have to tighten this remember to disconnect the other end from the Battery first or the sparks really will fly!

Try that first and if all is well there are other things to try.

Not saying that this applies to yourself but I have met people who think that the output from the Battery can kill them if they touch it!!!!

Hope this is of some help

Del

[the fox]

Hi before you buy a new motor try the connection going to it, if you disconnect the electrical plug going to the EGR valve and be carefull you can get to it, you can't miss the large plastic shroud it does unclip at the bottom the unclip part is like the size of a large thumb and it swings upwards but I could not get a socket on it, so I unclipped all the insulator and slid it back onto the wire and you will see a 12mm nut on a brass thread, I have found two very slack and the vehicles very slow to turn over both had fitted new glow plugs etc, etc I was suprised how loose the connection was, you may get a socket on from underneath but it means removing plastic tray, and if you can't get to the terminal you won't be able to change the motor,,,, the terminal on both vehicles had a slight corrosion but nothing major, but I was amazed how fast they now turn over,

[CharlieFarlie]

Had a trusted local garage check the leads and connections today and they are fine... New starter motor will be fitted on Tuesday..

[voyager t180]

Not the glow plugs then Charlie,but you had to rule them out.

Mine has to crank over around three to four times on first start up on a cold day,after that it starts up right on the button.

Did you have the same symptoms?

[CharlieFarlie]

My car was/is just slow to turn over.. Putting in new plugs and that huge Battery have improved the situation but I just think its still not right.. One of my problems is I just cannot tolerate things on my car not being right .. Daft really but that's the way it is..

Replacing the parts so far were I think the best way to start but success was only partial..

A couple of technicians that used to work at the Toyota dealership that did the engines in my car have started an independent garage around 15 miles from where I live. One of them is a chap I've known for years (Toyota Master Tech) so I took the car to them this afternoon to get it checked out.

What they said was its best if I drop the car with them on Monday so they can start the car on Tuesday and experience exactly what is going on.. If they then agree its the starter going weak they will replace it .. I absolutely trust them and their opinion 100% so we or at least I will just see what happens...

[voyager t180]

Indi Toyota technician close by..now there's a stroke of luck Charlie,keep us updated.

[CharlieFarlie]

Indi Toyota technician close by..now there's a stroke of luck Charlie,keep us updated.

Two of the Technicians who used to work at the main Dealers who did a lot of work on my car decided to start their own business.

They have set up a very professional very well equipped unit near to Worcester... The one chap was the "Master tech" at the dealership and trust me he really knows his stuff and is a keen and enthusiastic guy...

It was when I test drove the 4.4 a week or two ago the sales guy told me about this.. So I looked them up and paid a visit yesterday..

I will happily pass on information by PM to anyone who needs work done...

[jase hutch]

Charlie , that sounds handy , I'm not far from Worcester and my nearest Toyota dealer is at Stratford if I need genuine parts etc ! Always good to know of a recommended independent !

[CharlieFarlie]

Car went in for the starter motor test yesterday.. It was dropped off Monday afternoon so they could experience the cranking speed. Garage said it did crank slowly but are adamant it is the Battery. The Battery is less than 3 weeks old ! It is a Banner Power Bull with 680CCA or cold cranking amps..It is also the best Battery Banner do with a four year guarantee. Garage says it should be 800CCA. So they have fitted a genuine Toyota battery of the correct size..

Temperatures outside are very warm for the time of year so its not really possible to see if the very slow cranking is still present..

Can the difference between a 680 and an 800 amp battery really make that much difference ? I remain unconvinced.

[anchorman]

It might make a bit when dead cold but you will need a starter to cure it.

[Tech01]

Upping Battery CCA from 680 to 800A will provide useful extra cranking speed on a cold day. There are some 830 and 900 to be had.

Good point made earlier about replacing the s/motor "appearing" to solve the problem - when what actually happens is that the suspect connection is remade - is a good one. The position of this terminal means it is subjected to plenty of heat, so could well both loosen and oxidize over time. A really meaty spring washer is a good idea to keep things tight.

It does seem that D4Ds might be 'programmed' not to start "first tweak" on the key (unlike most French diesels), possibly to avoid the possibility of a ragged start - more to do with image, I guess, than anything else. This even affects the way they re-start when right up to temperature.

Every winter our 4.2 seems to need a good 5 secs of cranking, even after leaving the plugs working for an extra 15 seconds or more. Come a warm morning, no such problem. Programmed, or just marginal performance?

Chris

[Big Kev]

In the case of push button start cars, if one wants to let the glowplugs heat up a bit longer, is it just a case of foot on brake as usual, but wait for say 10 seconds longer before pushing Start button? Is that them activated on pushing the pedal......?

[firemac]

In the case of push button start cars, if one wants to let the glowplugs heat up a bit longer, is it just a case of foot on brake as usual, but wait for say 10 seconds longer before pushing Start button? Is that them activated on pushing the pedal......?

Kev, on mine, when cold, if I press the brake pedal & push the button immediately, nothing happens for a few seconds but then starts on virtually first throw of the crank. Presumably waiting until glowplugs are properly lit.

Hot start is immediate.

[Big Kev]

In the case of push button start cars, if one wants to let the glowplugs heat up a bit longer, is it just a case of foot on brake as usual, but wait for say 10 seconds longer before pushing Start button? Is that them activated on pushing the pedal......?

Kev, on mine, when cold, if I press the brake pedal & push the button immediately, nothing happens for a few seconds but then starts on virtually first throw of the crank. Presumably waiting until glowplugs are properly lit.

Hot start is immediate.

Exact same as mine does, Jim, with which I have no gripe, and hot starting brill too.

Was just wondering......