Starter Motor Lead Question.

[voyager t180]

In the case of push button start cars, if one wants to let the glowplugs heat up a bit longer, is it just a case of foot on brake as usual, but wait for say 10 seconds longer before pushing Start button? Is that them activated on pushing the pedal......?

You been taking English lessons Kev min ;-)

[firemac]

In the case of push button start cars, if one wants to let the glowplugs heat up a bit longer, is it just a case of foot on brake as usual, but wait for say 10 seconds longer before pushing Start button? Is that them activated on pushing the pedal......?

You been taking English lessons Kev min ;-)

Ah, don't put him off, Paul. That's the first post from BK that I've understood on first reading!! Saves a hell of a lot of time!!

[CharlieFarlie]

In the case of push button start cars, if one wants to let the glowplugs heat up a bit longer, is it just a case of foot on brake as usual, but wait for say 10 seconds longer before pushing Start button? Is that them activated on pushing the pedal......?

Well on the manual cars its the clutch pedal Kev...

But I think to do what you are saying surely its case of pressing the start button without pressing the brake so the glow plugs go through a cycle then starting in the normal way.....

In effect giving two glow plug cycles......

[rambler]

I'm having very similar issues with my Rav now, hot starting is STILL an issue, ive just emailed my Toyota dealership head of business.

I've politely worded an extensive email asking him to instruct the service dept to cure my hot start issues after breaking down today (not hot starting ), as it's still not as it should be ( I feel your pain there Charlie ) I want it right, and right is how it should be.

Even with 127'000 on the clock, it drives lovely,and I've taken care of it......and I want it starting right !!

So he's agreed to have it re diagnosed F O C on Monday, and lets hope it starts from hot, with a fast cranking engine that fires up with ease and with vigour when they have finished with it.

What frustrates me is a chap 3 doors away has a P reg hiace van ,its well worked ,rusty dirty site van,must have miles & miles on the clock,that fires up each & every time , first crank of the engine ,its ragged ,thrashed....and really abused,BUT it always starts easily :(

[the fox]

I look after four rav4's and one avensis all 2.2d engines three had loose starter motor connections, but two of them are bad to start when cold, But not when very cold, it is a issue I have had for about six years, the two bad starters need two or three turns to start them but only when the temp gauge on the dash read between 7 and 11ish any hotter then they strat first time and any colder the same.

I have put a meter on the glow plug supply when the light goes out on the dash the feed to the glow plugs also stops, but when the ignition key is turned to engage the starter the supply comes back on, it does this on all five vehicles, they are exactly the same.

But two are bad to start, filters, etc etc have been changed, the milage are all similar, the only thing I have not changed is the injectors, I have four brand new glow plugs NGK made and tried all four in each vehicle, the !Removed! things will still not start first time.

Any ideas, I have two vehilces one 06 and one 65 plate that all have this problem every winter it stated three years ago, I have even put a jump lead onto the glow plugs just prior to starting with no difference, I'm looking at some type of cold start device, one of the vehicles has the EGR blanked one has not, you name it I've tried it.

[rambler]

Not being as yourself, someone who is able to take these engine bays to bits and work on them I can't do it, this is my one and only vehicle and living out in the sticks I need it working as it should with no troubles.

I took it to my local Toyota dealership back in may this year to have ' expert technicians ' sort out the hot starting issue, and a blown turbo. It needed to be done, so they where my choice, Toyota technicians with Toyota equipment, and Toyota parts and knowledge.

Don't get me wrong ,the service I get is very friendly, courteous, and professional.

I've even made a point of emailing them to say how each and every person there is always polite and very helpful to me.

Its how I like to be treated, I do the same where I work.

But unfortunately 8 months later, I still have the same issues remaining, hot starting issues & now an oil leak from the large jubilee clip on the new turbo that's already been back to them to sort on G/tee back in June this year, one month after the work was done.

When I spent close to £1500 to have the problems on my Rav fixed and rectified with no issues remaining.

Its just so frustrating that it starts with ease every time from cold, its drives very nicely but I just daren't turn off that engine once its 'at temp' to then worry about it re starting within the next few minutes, because it often won't. If I let it cool for 30 mins its fine and I carry on my journey with........a..........great..........big............smile.

[Big Kev]

Not being as yourself, someone who is able to take these engine bays to bits and work on them I can't do it, this is my one and only vehicle and living out in the sticks I need it working as it should with no troubles.

I took it to my local Toyota dealership back in may this year to have ' expert technicians ' sort out the hot starting issue, and a blown turbo. It needed to be done, so they where my choice, Toyota technicians with Toyota equipment, and Toyota parts and knowledge.

Don't get me wrong ,the service I get is very friendly, courteous, and professional.

I've even made a point of emailing them to say how each and every person there is always polite and very helpful to me.

Its how I like to be treated, I do the same where I work.

But unfortunately 8 months later, I still have the same issues remaining, hot starting issues & now an oil leak from the large jubilee clip on the new turbo that's already been back to them to sort on G/tee back in June this year, one month after the work was done.

When I spent close to £1500 to have the problems on my Rav fixed and rectified with no issues remaining.

Its just so frustrating that it starts with ease every time from cold, its drives very nicely but I just daren't turn off that engine once its 'at temp' to then worry about it re starting within the next few minutes, because it often won't. If I let it cool for 30 mins its fine and I carry on my journey with........a..........great..........big............smile.

So all youz great technical muckers of this Forum..........what is expanding when hot and messing up the circuit needed to start Oor Jamie's car from hot...........?

[Tech01]

The Fox said:

"I have put a meter on the glow plug supply when the light goes out on the dash the feed to the glow plugs also stops, but when the ignition key is turned to engage the starter the supply comes back on, it does this on all five vehicles, they are exactly the same."

My first reaction is that this doesn't make any sense, and seems to run counter to the temperature (i.e. water temperature) dependent pre-heat and post-heat.

Surely it hasn't been done to prevent the glow-plugs continuing to run if the driver didn't effect a start - the plugs would time out anyway.

Puzzled...

Chris

It's also nowadays unusual for the dash indicator extinguishing to signal anything other than "OK to try starting now". Years ago, the dash light was simply wired into the glow-plug (relay) circuit, and was on for as long as the glow-plugs were powered up. This was ditched by most manufacturers, firstly because, in the early days of diesel passenger cars, owners complained about the protracted time "before you could start them", and, when post-heat was introduced (to reduce starting emissions/smoke), it didn't make any sense to wait that long.

More seriously, if it is the case that the glow-plugs cut out when the dash light does, this walks all over the general advice, in very cold weather, to allow some extra time for them to operate before cranking!

Will be getting my meter out on our 4.2 this week.

C.

[the fox]

get your meters out, I'm talking about 4.3 versions not sure if the 4.2 is the same, The feed to the glow plugs definately drops off when the light goes out, it comes back on when you turn the key to start or when you press start???, it then stops on for a few seconds depending on the temp, I tried leaving it longer and it made matters worse thats why I was suprised to find the 12v feed drops off, and it happens on all the toyota's 4.3 I service, I just have two that need a second burst on the starter when coldish, 8c or just above, any colder and they start first time, I will get to the bottom of it....

[voyager t180]

Could it be the temperature issue is misleading,it could be more to do with dampness in the atmosphere.

seem to remember back in the day, damp foggy weather always made starting more difficult.?

[firemac]

Could it be the temperature issue is misleading,it could be more to do with dampness in the atmosphere.

seem to remember back in the day, damp foggy weather always made starting more difficult.?

But wasn't that a problem that petrols were subject to, i.e dampness causing tracking/arcing on the ignition leads? I wouldn't have thought that diesels suffered from those issues in the same way insofar as the glow plug feeds are much lower voltage than that going to spark plugs. On the other hand though really cold weather would throw up fuel waxing problems.

[LeeADAB]

Hi Jamie,

Would yours have an in tank strainer/filter on the fuel pump? Although mine is petrol I seem to have solved my cold start issues by changing that and the fuel pressure regulator part of the pump unit. Not an expensive job but if that's never been changed might be worth a shot. Mine was black at 80k when they removed it.

May not be of help.....Lee

[Tech01]

On the 4.2 D4D, temperature (as it affects glow-plug time) = water temperature. Will meter it in the next day or two - an unwelcome cold isn't encouraging me under any bonnets at the moment!

Chris

[shcm]

x

[gjnorthall]

The rationale behind most glow plug system is that the illumination time of the warning light is somewhat shorter than the preheat time. The engine should be cranked as soon as the light extinguishes and the preheat then continues during cranking. If you delay cranking after the light has extinguished - the preheat will time out and the combustion chamber will cool back during cranking. After the engine has started - a timed relay then re-energises the glow plug - the duration of post-heat being dependent on coolant temperature.

[the fox]

Hole in one my friend, now tell me why I can't get two 2.2's to start first time, I tried a lead direct from Battery to glow plug connection rail and applied voltage at the same time as the key was turned still needed a couple or three times on the key, i let them turn over for about ten seconds nothing, second time they fire after about 4 seconds but sometimes they need three turns

[rambler]

Mine's gone back in today, maybe to check out this starter lead.

They think its definitely an electrical issue, I think its more fuel related.

Hope to find out today or soon.