2011 Rav 4 Burning Oil?!?

[principia]

I bought my 2011 Rav 4 diesel about a year ago, and have been really really pleased with it. It's now done 24000 miles.

Recently however, the oil pressure warning light started to flash on for a second or two on longish motorway journeys. Obviously I checked that the oil level was right - between the two bumps on the dip stick - which it appeared to be.

I took it in the dealer who have said that it is burning oil - they serviced it in June - and that the engine needed to be re-built (under warranty) with new pistons and/or piston rings.

Does this sound right?? Might there be some damage to things like the catalytic converter as a result of the oil burning? Should I be insisting on more work being done?

Has anyone else had this problem?

As I say, I think the Rav is great, but one of the reasons I bought Toyota was their high reliability, so I'm slightly disappointed at the moment!

Cheers

Richard

[blackcts]

I would have not have expected that on a 2011 model! You would think these issues would have been sorted by now!

[Davrav]

Welcome to the club Richard.

I think that is the latest RAV we've heard of to be burning oil - which it shouldn't.

On earlier RAV 4.3's Toyota policy is to replace the engine, not re-build, up to seven years and 111K miles under an extended goodwill warranty. There is a pinned thread started by Charlie Farlie at the top of the forum page that you can read through but I would be contacting Toyota UK for advice before allowing your garage to start any dismantling. I am assuming this is a Toyota dealer?

[Parts-King]

Richard it is a well known and documented failure of the AD series engine

Not that you would want to read it all but there is a 50 page discussion on it so answering your specific questions will have been answered here

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/132178-charliefarlies-guide-to-the-toyota-2ad-diesel-engine-and-its-issues/

Kingo

[Big Kev]

Naw Naw Naw Richard.........it must not and will not be rebuilt.......it must be replaced.........

If it is burning oil, yours is the latest registered car thus far AFAIK to need the replacement engine..........and at 24k miles.......?

SEE PINNED SECTION ON PAGE ONE BY CHARLIE FARLIE RE THE ENGINE PROBLEM........AND WARRANTY IN PLACE.

Unless you are a well known moderator hereon and just taking the pish.........? LOL........

[principia]

Thanks for the quick response guys.

Yes it is with a Toyota dealer.

I did have a look at the Charlie Farlie thread, but it was all a bit depressing :(, and I wasn't even sure if my engine was an AD!

Sounds like I need to talk to Toyota - anyone got a contact?

Thanks

Richard

p.s. The 24,000 miles that the car has done have virtually all been decent length A-road and motorway journeys not stop/start around town driving. And I don't thrash the engine at all. So I don't know what else I could have done to prevent this!

[CharlieFarlie]

First and most importantly DO NOT allow the dealer to strip and rebuild that engine.. It under current policy should be replaced NOT rebuilt.. We have seen cases where dealers have stripped engines and nothing but trouble follows !

I have never heard of a 2011 car developing the issues we associate with the 2AD series engine.. Several 2009 cars yes but I'm wondering if perhaps you car was one that had been sat in a compound or at a dealers somewhere and remained unregistered ?

Is your car the face-lift version with the square grille or the older one with the elongated oval grill ?

Could you give us more facts ? Mileage ? Exact model ? Power output ?

Start by reading here.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/132178-charliefarlies-guide-to-the-toyota-2ad-diesel-engine-and-its-issues/#entry1175067

[voyager t180]

How do Richard.

As said I don't think we've seen a 2011 engine which needed replacing.

If they haven't already I would ask your dealer to do the oil consumption test before thinking of engine replacements.

The test is outlined in that pinned engine thread.

The low oil warning light came on, on our 2012 Rav (18kmls)the other day,I just topped it up with 1/2 lt oil.

With the modern 10 or 20k service intervals (way too long IMO) the oil will usually need topping up between services,especially if as ours it's mostly M'way driving.

So possibly your dealer could be jumping the gun a bit.

[gjnorthall]

There's something not quite right here. Before coming to any sort of conclusion - the dealer would need to top up the oil then ask you to return later in order to establish if the oil consumption was excessive. To come to this conclusion just by looking at the car is somewhat strange. Secondly you mention the oil pressure light flickering even though the oil level was between max and min. Assuming that the pressure sensor is OK - it's quite a serious matter if the pressure drops sufficient to illuminate the light whilst driving. If the oil pressure does drop this low on occasions then serious engine damage could well result. The car may well be suffering from the 2AD malady but there's more to this one than meets the eye.

[silly sausage]

Surprised at this. As the Chaps above have stated , by 2011models I was of the opinion that such issues were history. If it does transpire that major surgery is necessary I would insist on a new engine rather than a strip and rebuild.

I would deal with customer services directly Richard, approached in the right manner you will find them most accommodating.

[silly sausage]

There's something not quite right here. Before coming to any sort of conclusion - the dealer would need to top up the oil then ask you to return later in order to establish if the oil consumption was excessive. To come to this conclusion just by looking at the car is somewhat strange. Secondly you mention the oil pressure light flickering even though the oil level was between max and min. Assuming that the pressure sensor is OK - it's quite a serious matter if the pressure drops sufficient to illuminate the light whilst driving. If the oil pressure does drop this low on occasions then serious engine damage could well result. The car may well be suffering from the 2AD malady but there's more to this one than meets the eye.

I've not had a 150 use a single drop of oil, however, on previous 136 engines i did experience the oil pressure warning flicker when only half a litre of oil was required, noticeably on long journeys when the oil was right up to operating temp.

[Parts-King]

Lets not all jump the gun. The OP and the dealer are the ones who have all the required information

There is a fix of new pistons and rings on later models, just demanding a new engine im afraid will not work, Toyota will pay for work depending on a great number of things such as exact fault, engine number, plant build etc, no amount of asking for a new engine will get you one if it is not warranted

I think the OP needs to sit down with the Service manager and ask for confirmation of what is needed before everyone gives an opinion which is not going to help

Kingo

[gjnorthall]

Well spill the beans then - what's the issue with the later model that you're aware of? Fitting pistons and rings to Rav engines hasn't met with a lot of success in the past - what's changed?

[Parts-King]

- what's changed?

Well in about 2009....errr virtually the way the whole engine was built

It is very unusual for a later model to have the oil burning issue as has already been said

The reason 3/4 engines were fitted was partly due to the complexity of modifications and partly it was easier for Toyota to control that at factory level, it was unprecidented to have a new engine. If any engine has serious issues, a replacement engine is very rare, it is nearly always re-worked

Kingo

[blackcts]

My 2AD engine was replaced about 6,000 miles ago and it's needed a litre of oil (estimated) because the dealer gave it a wee top up previously. That said our 2.0 TDI CR Volkswagen prob uses around a litre every 6,000 miles.

[gjnorthall]

Very interesting - I'm sure lots of owners will be watching this space.

I wouldn't be at all happy about an oil light flickering - it means that the pressure has dropped very considerably albeit momentarily - possibly because the pump has picked up some air. Obviously you wouldn't set out to keep the oil level at min - but the engine should run without issue.

[anchorman]

- what's changed?

Well in about 2009....errr virtually the way the whole engine was built

It is very unusual for a later model to have the oil burning issue as has already been said

The reason 3/4 engines were fitted was partly due to the complexity of modifications and partly it was easier for Toyota to control that at factory level, it was unprecidented to have a new engine. If any engine has serious issues, a replacement engine is very rare, it is nearly always re-worked

Kingo

Kingo

You are not making sense here. There is only one answer to this question;

Are 150 engines in later (post 2009 models) subject to a piston ring modification?

I have only ever heard of ONE 2009 model being reworked and that was a previous 136 engine.

Yes or No - riddles not allowed. You are allowed to bolster the answer with some info but only after the short answer.

[CharlieFarlie]

I too have not heard of the later engines (150BHP) requiring any rebuild work at all....

We still do not know exactly which model this car is ? I asked above is it a very late or late registered 4.3 which is what I call the older shape or a 4.3.5 which is the face lifted car...

Curious to say the least !

[Big Kev]

I for one, because mine is a 2012 model, am totally relaxed about all this...........in truth, I am so relaxed about this that any donations of XXL plastic pants will be gratefully received......

Ah mean.......WTF?

[silly sausage]

I for one, because mine is a 2012 model, am totally relaxed about all this...........in truth, I am so relaxed about this that any donations of XXL plastic pants will be gratefully received......

Ah mean.......WTF?

We will have a 'whip round' Kev, I'm sure we can find you a TENA……….

[Big Kev]

Throwing the towel in eh?

[principia]

I've attached a picture of the car so you can identify which model it is.

It's a 150BHP 2.2D-4D XTR.

It's got 24000 or so on the clock.

Had another chat with the service guy who assured me that it is standard Toyota policy on this type of fault to replace the pistons & rings. He said that the problem with the 2009 models etc., is a different issue.

I also talked to Toyota UK customer care. They advised that I get my dealer to confirm 100% that they have talked to Toyota UK's technical department and got them to confirm the course of action. So I'll chase that one tomorrow.

I guess I'll just have to check oil levels more often in future, and keep them up to the maximum mark, and not just between the min and max.

I'm still concerned that other damage may have been done to other parts of the engine or the cat converter for example.

I just assumed that a modern Toyota would be 100% reliable. Maybe not.

Thanks

Richard

[anchorman]

Right. Lets put things into perspective here.

Firstly, there is no requirement in any car in the land to run it with the engine oil on the top mark. As long as you do not run it below the minimum mark, that is fine otherwise there would be no max and min, there would only be a single mark with no range on the dipstick. If the dealer has told you otherwise then I would immediately doubt their credability.

That brings us to the next point. If all your engine has used in 24k (or the previous service in June) is enough oil to drop it to half way between the 2 marks, that is also very acceptable - especially if the put fully synthetic oil in it. This is where it starts to go a bit hazy for me. If the oil light was flashing it could be one of 2 things. The oil level indicator was showing low but if the oil was dipped OK, that would be a sensor. Secondly, it would be low oil pressure and again if the oil level was OK then the dealer should not even contemplate piston rings as that is bggr all to do with it. For these reasons I am seriously doubting the logic of the dealer and that goes hand in hand with their ability.

Can you tell us exactly what symbol flashed and what colour it was? FFS don't let that dealer touch that engine or they stand a chance of cocking it up completely.

Kingo - your comments from a warranty issue of any kind on the 150 engine ONLY please.

The first thing I would do is drop off the oil filter just to make sure Johnny Rock - ape hasn't managed to do something daft that would effect the oil flow. I would also look for particles of metal to see if maybe a bearing has started to break down and restrict the oil flow. It would be a bottom end problem, not above the pistons.

[gjnorthall]

The service guy seems well versed in "this type of fault" and it's solution - but the evidence for the diagnosis doesn't stack up. If it's a different fault to that on earlier cars - it might be worth pushing them (dealer or customer care) on what exactly is the problem - you've got a right to know. I'm guessing, but it doesn't sound as if the oil consumption is very dramatic - you mention topping up recently but has this been a regular occurrence? Without knowing the detail - it's difficult to know if theres potential for other things to be affected.

[silly sausage]

It will be interesting for us all to see how this develops with a potential issue with a 150 engine at such low mileage. Please keep the forum updated Richard.