Is Aygo Manual Tricky For A New Driver To Pull Away In?

[dwilson]

Do you think the petrol Aygo is difficult for a young driver who was taught how to drive in a diesel Clio to adjust to? I have driven all kinds of vehicles for many years and don't find the Aygo tricky but I recently discovered that starting from rest is difficult for a new driver due to the low torque of the 3 cylinder petrol engine.

Personally I struggle for a smooth set off much more in our petrol RAV - which I drive less often.

Has anyone else found the Aygo tricky? I thought it would be an ideal first car but perhaps not!

[Raistlin]

It's a walk in the park as it is light and responsive ( a bit like me.. ) the biting point is easy to find and the take up is very smooth unless your wearing clogs

[dwilson]

It's a walk in the park as it is light and responsive ( a bit like me.. ) the biting point is easy to find and the take up is very smooth unless your wearing clogs

That's what I thought but apparently not for new drivers who have learnt on a diesel!

Trying to observe what happens, it does seem that as the engine comes under load it tends to die a bit and so needs more revs.

David

[Raistlin]

I must say for a first car they are being spoilt, I learnt to drive in a Triumph Dolomite 1300 which was a nightmare as it jumped out of gear when it felt like it.

All cars take a bit of time, take them to a car park after work and let them practice, it seems good enough for our local BSM to use.

[Cyker]

If you are used to a diesel it's extremely painful at first as the engine has almost no torque at low RPM.

I stalled the courtesy car 107 loads of times before I adapted
The biggest problem I had was that it's harder to feel the clutch bite in the 107 and the engine will stall much more suddenly than my D4D does. The other problem is that my D4D has made me very lazy - I can do low-speed manoeuvres and such purely on the tick-over in the D4D but found this impossible in the 107 - You HAD to use the accelerator.

It brought back lots of hateful memories of the crappy BSM Corsa I learned to drive in But that car did teach me excellent clutch control (If you didn't learn it, the $£#@*&%$ thing would just stall ALL THE TIME )

You get used to it tho' and it shouldn't take long to adapt, esp. for a new driver. I'd say it is a very good car for a new driver as it is very agile, and the engine is powerful enough to keep them out of trouble but not powerful enough to get them into trouble :)

They just need to get a feel for it, do a few starts and manoeuvres etc. If they find it too difficult, may be worth taking some more lessons in a weaker engined car because clearly they aren't ready for the road. Or find them a Mk1 Yaris D4D

Edit: Added back all the linefeeds; The forum really seems to have a taste for them

P.S.> Bit of extra advice; If unsure, the old standby of running the engine to 2000rpm and then gently engaging the clutch is a good learner trick until they get a feel for the engine and can go back to the more normal seesaw way of doing things.

Only do it if the Aygo has the 190mm clutch tho' or it won't last long!

Also, may be tricky if there is no RPM counter... ...

[FROSTYBALLS]

I find our 1.2 Hyundai i20 a bit prone to the symptoms described. The clutch of the Auris is heavier and that is the car I drive most. My partner (the i20 is her car) doesn't have any problem. Think it is a case of adapting.

[AlanTR]

My wife finds the 'high' clutch bite a bit of a problem. Lots of revs when starting from rest, she eventually gets the hang of it!! She normally drives a Hyundai IX20 1.4 CRDi. I get the impression (from 48 years of driving experience) that most women find it harder to adapt when switching cars.

[Raistlin]

Brave remark ...

[dwilson]

Many thanks for all of your replies - they have all been helpful. I just drive the car and it is only now that I am starting to analyse it! The clutch biting point is high and I think that probably adds to the problem. I have booked some refresher lessons for him in the hope this will help but I expect that will be in another diesel!

David

[ColinB59]

I took my daughter out for a few sessions in my Aygo when she was learning. The biggest problem she had was that the Aygo (mine anyway) doesn't have a rev counter, and her instructor had taught her (in a different car) to "set the gas" by getting the revs up to a certain value, so she was lost without the tacho. We had to do quite a bit of starting practice, and much stalling, whilst she got used to the sound and feel of the car. Once we'd got over that hurdle, she didn't find it particularly tricky.

[Raistlin]

Remember the days when we were taught to feel the biting point and listen to the change in engine pitch...

Heady days ;)

[dwilson]

I took my daughter out for a few sessions in my Aygo when she was learning. The biggest problem she had was that the Aygo (mine anyway) doesn't have a rev counter, and her instructor had taught her (in a different car) to "set the gas" by getting the revs up to a certain value, so she was lost without the tacho. We had to do quite a bit of starting practice, and much stalling, whilst she got used to the sound and feel of the car. Once we'd got over that hurdle, she didn't find it particularly tricky.

I haven't got a rev counter on mine either. My youngest has been taught in a diesel to pull away without increasing the revs which doesn't (easily) work in the Aygo. He had a refresher lesson today which he enjoyed in a 1.6 Fiesta and had no problems! Hopefully all will be well in due course! He passed first time eighteen months ago but the cost of insurance for a young driver that had just passed was very high and I thought a ridiculous waste of money. Perhaps I was wrong? Anyway as a consequence he hasn't driven until now. I do have an old Micra that I have given to my daughter that is in the garage and I am wondering whether he would be better with that but it only has the one airbag, no power steering and a very, very high biting point. I am intending to get rid of one of these cars and thought it would be the 17 year old Micra but perhaps it should be the 2 year old Aygo!

[dwilson]

Remember the days when we were taught to feel the biting point and listen to the change in engine pitch...

Heady days ;)

Yes I learnt how to drive by first reading a good book that stressed about clutch control and then had some lessons when I was 16 around the road inside the school grounds and then out on the road on my 17th birthday and passed my test soon afterwards.

Before my youngest was 17 I took him to some private ground and he was fine at finding the biting point in a MIcra and pulling away. He can still find the biting point on the Aygo but it has been going wrong from thereon. Anyway thanks for all of your comments.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I liked the Micra. We had three of the K10 Micras from new, and when either of the Primeras I had were in for service, I was always provided with a K11 Micra as a courtesy car. Both versions were really easy to drive and ultra reliable.

One of my neighbours has a W reg Micra that just seems to keep going and going.

Having said that, the Aygo would be far safer in any accident ....

[Cyker]

The Mk2 'Jelly Bean' Micras are great learner cars too; Cheap to buy and repair, reliable, just make sure you get one with power steering as it wasn't a standard feature until later IIRC!

Avoid the Mk1's tho' (Or the Boxy Deathtrap we referred to my friend's one I've never been in a car that was so terrifying to take to 40mph )

Insurance is the biggest killer; I know lots of people who didn't even bother to learn until they were in their mid-late twenties just so the insurance would be less insane!

You can get temporary insurance (Bought a few weeks here and there so my brother could get some experience in my Yaris - Was so much easier to drive than the petrol Twingo he was learning in ), and I seem to recall you could get weekend-only insurance too, both of which will be a lot less painful on the wallet than the multiple-thousand a sub-20 newbie driver is likely to get hit with!

Alternatively, move to Woking

I feel it is important to keep driving once they pass tho' as TBH, that is when they REALLY start to learn how to drive! Instructors teach you how to pass the test but as you all know, half of what you learn goes out the window in the real world

[daveyjp]

Clutch control just takes practice when changing cars. I wouldn't suggest too high revs in an Aygo, its one of the few cars we have had where staring on an incline in reverse could produce a definate clutch burning smell even with modest revs to preven stalling.

I see someone has mentioned an i20 - we have just got rid of ours after 6 months. Worst car we have ever had, including issues with the clutch, which weren't down to the driver as we have two cars and no issue with the other. Getting smooth changes was so difficult it was a pain to drive and the dealer refused to accept the regular clutch squeal was unusual.

[dwilson]

Clutch control just takes practice when changing cars. I wouldn't suggest too high revs in an Aygo, its one of the few cars we have had where staring on an incline in reverse could produce a definate clutch burning smell even with modest revs to preven stalling.

I see someone has mentioned an i20 - we have just got rid of ours after 6 months. Worst car we have ever had, including issues with the clutch, which weren't down to the driver as we have two cars and no issue with the other. Getting smooth changes was so difficult it was a pain to drive and the dealer refused to accept the regular clutch squeal was unusual.

No i20 for me then!

I haven't noticed any clutch burning smell on my Aygo yet my drive is steep and I reverse off about 50% of the time. The only car I did have that problem was with a Landcruiser reversing up a steep drive on holiday - was the last car I expected to have that issue with!

Thanks for the advice about not too many revs though.

[dwilson]

The Mk2 'Jelly Bean' Micras are great learner cars too; Cheap to buy and repair, reliable, just make sure you get one with power steering as it wasn't a standard feature until later IIRC!

Avoid the Mk1's tho' (Or the Boxy Deathtrap we referred to my friend's one I've never been in a car that was so terrifying to take to 40mph )

Insurance is the biggest killer; I know lots of people who didn't even bother to learn until they were in their mid-late twenties just so the insurance would be less insane!

You can get temporary insurance (Bought a few weeks here and there so my brother could get some experience in my Yaris - Was so much easier to drive than the petrol Twingo he was learning in ), and I seem to recall you could get weekend-only insurance too, both of which will be a lot less painful on the wallet than the multiple-thousand a sub-20 newbie driver is likely to get hit with!

Alternatively, move to Woking

I feel it is important to keep driving once they pass tho' as TBH, that is when they REALLY start to learn how to drive! Instructors teach you how to pass the test but as you all know, half of what you learn goes out the window in the real world

I have a 1996 Micra with no power steering but that is only noticeable at low speeds when parking etc. To be honest it has needed to be welded on 3 occasions due to rusting out and has seen better days. I suppose Mk1 Micras that you speak of are well past their best but I did buy a top spec one new in 1986 and thought it was a great car and a vast improvement on the Metro that I traded in. I don't remember any problems at motorway speeds but car safety has moved on a lot since then. The only downside to the Micra was the boot was too small to fit a pushchair in so I needed a bigger car.

Insurance was ridulous for 17 year olds but not so bad now he is 19 so he is insured on the Aygo but needs to be able to drive it confidently. I thought the Aygo was the easiest of cars to drive but I was wrong!

[dwilson]

I liked the Micra. We had three of the K10 Micras from new, and when either of the Primeras I had were in for service, I was always provided with a K11 Micra as a courtesy car. Both versions were really easy to drive and ultra reliable.

One of my neighbours has a W reg Micra that just seems to keep going and going.

Having said that, the Aygo would be far safer in any accident ....

Yes I liked the K10 Micra and the 1996 K11 micra that I gave to my daughter has been passed around the family since it was new and so there is still some affection for it. It is a P reg and only done 50000 miles and starts first time every time. I too thought the Aygo would be the safer car....

[FROSTYBALLS]

In defence of the i20 - as with any car, there are good and bad examples out there. What suits some, doesn't suit others.

We have found ours to be a good replacement for our Mazda 2 - a bigger boot (easier for my partner to load therapy couches into), far better ride, better equipped including safety equipment (six airbags as opposed to two, better Euro NCAP rating), etc.

My sister and her husband are equally pleased with theirs (bought the same weekend as ours) - have been on holiday using their i20 seven times this year, including two weeks in Germany with bikes, comfortable for them (sister is 5 ft 3ins, brother-in-law 6 ft 4ins), etc.

The i20 is not without it's problems - highlighted sufficiently in reviews like Honest John, Which? etc: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/hyundai/i20-2009/?section=good.

Conversely if one were to look at the faults listed for the Aygo, it is surprising they sell as well as they do: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/aygo-2005/?section=good

Bit of balance wouldn't go amiss.

[AlanTR]

We also own a Hyundai IX20 1.4 CRDi which is an MPV type of vehicle and vastly different to the i20. Of course, a lot of components and engines are shared. The IX20 has proved to be an excellent, practical vehicle. No clutch problems at all, I am pleased to say.

A lot of clutch problems are caused by poor driving such as harsh clutch engagement, 'riding' the clutch and slipping the clutch unnecessarily. A lot of people never progress their driving skills and remain crap drivers all their lives...!

I've never had any issues with the Aygo clutch. Once you get used to the high clutch bite, it's no problem.

[Cyker]

The Mk1 Micra might not be that bad, I just remember it as the Boxy Deathtrap because that's what we called my mate's car

I think it had some major rust issues and was veeeery rattly, alarmingly so the faster it went! At 40mph it felt like it was about to fall apart and kill us all!

I think the Aygo is a suitable first car, and it's cheap so any newbie driver dings won't be such an issue. The clutch isn't the best but I've used worse. The high biting point is not an uncommon thing; The newer shape Fiestas and my mate's Audi A3 also have extremely high clutch biting points and insanely long clutch travel.

I will say my Yaris' clutch has a much shorter travel, so it took a bit of getting used to in the Aygo - I found I couldn't lift off it completely when anticipating a gear change as I'd have to move my whole leg rather than just rocking back on my heel, but you learn to adapt pretty quick.

The relative trickiness of the Aygo's clutch is not a major thing, and if anything it will make him a better and more skilled driver! ;)

That said, if you want something better, then the Mk1 D4D Yaris is IMHO the best car ever made :D

The steering feel is worse than the Aygo but this is because it has very strong power assistance which makes it a doddle to manoeuvre at low speeds. It doesn't feel as planted/confident in corners due to the amount of body roll (This is a bit deceptive tho' as it has loads of grip due to it being so light), but I like to think that encourages sensible driving and cornering speeds :D

The most attractive thing for a new driver is that it is very hard to accidentally stall - If you went from 1st to 4th for instance, the Aygo would stall instantly with almost no feedback (No juddering, no stall '*****', the engine just cuts out!), whereas the D4D will rumble alarmingly, but probably won't stall.

If you do stall it, it will ***** very strongly, alerting you to the fact that you have, in fact, stalled - I find the Aygo stalled very gently and if you weren't expecting it to stall you might not notice right away.

The brakes have ludicrous stopping power, the in-gear acceleration is amazing. The suspension is... well... it's softer than the Aygo's anyway

It's an absolute joy to drive and still makes me happy when I drive it. Best car I've ever driven or owned :D

(Brought to you be the Yaris Mk1 D4D Appreciation Society :D)

[Raistlin]

Mr Cyker,

No adverts for another society or club.... :)

[Cyker]

You could make it the Yaris forum's subtitle... :D

[Raistlin]

You might think that but I couldn't possibly comment. ..