Is Aygo Manual Tricky For A New Driver To Pull Away In?

[johnp]

There is conflict among Driving Instructors as to how driving a diesel should be taught.

Many of the new generation of instructors do not teach to 'set the gas' to move away,

whilst the old school teachers do.

This can lead to problems when learners transfer to small engine petrol cars which need more gas to get going.

[Cyker]

What they need to teach learners is how to gauge how much accelerator to use themselves, rather than relying on a set procedure. Developing an instinctive feel for the clutch is the most important thing when learning to drive a manual.

With a small petrol, you need to put a considerable amount of power in when engaging the clutch, esp. when moving off at an angle rather than straight.

If you tried that in most diesels you'd accelerate very rapidly as the clutch is engaged.

It is different with every single car, but I would say that learning in a gutless underpowered petrol car will teach you this much better than any diesel, which have much more care-free handling at the low-end, which is why I think people that learn in diesels are at a major disadvantage.

[AlanTR]

When I was first taught to drive, I was shown a very simple pencil drawing depicting engine, clutch plates and the driving wheels. It was explained to me about engine revs and what happened when the clutch was engaged. When you first start driving, having this picture in your mind helps you understand what's going on and helps you get it right - let's face it, most people don't have a clue what's going on!

Balancing the accelerator and clutch is not a big deal, once you get the hang of it you can apply it to any car you drive, whether it be diesel or petrol. Confidence grows with experience. However, I do believe that some very nervous drivers or older drivers would definitely benefit from owning automatic cars.

[dwilson]

There is conflict among Driving Instructors as to how driving a diesel should be taught.

Many of the new generation of instructors do not teach to 'set the gas' to move away,

whilst the old school teachers do.

This can lead to problems when learners transfer to small engine petrol cars which need more gas to get going.

Unfortunately my son was taught in a diesel to start with the clutch only - apart from on hill starts (which he did not do many). I think the contrast between a diesel and a Yaris petrol is large and not one that I had anticipated.

[dwilson]

What they need to teach learners is how to gauge how much accelerator to use themselves, rather than relying on a set procedure. Developing an instinctive feel for the clutch is the most important thing when learning to drive a manual.

With a small petrol, you need to put a considerable amount of power in when engaging the clutch, esp. when moving off at an angle rather than straight.

If you tried that in most diesels you'd accelerate very rapidly as the clutch is engaged.

It is different with every single car, but I would say that learning in a gutless underpowered petrol car will teach you this much better than any diesel, which have much more care-free handling at the low-end, which is why I think people that learn in diesels are at a major disadvantage.

Yes I am sure that is true. I wish now that he had learnt in a petrol! He is having some refresher lessons but in a more powerful car than the Aygo - should build his confidence back but may not solve the problem he has with the Aygo!

[dwilson]

When I was first taught to drive, I was shown a very simple pencil drawing depicting engine, clutch plates and the driving wheels. It was explained to me about engine revs and what happened when the clutch was engaged. When you first start driving, having this picture in your mind helps you understand what's going on and helps you get it right - let's face it, most people don't have a clue what's going on!

Balancing the accelerator and clutch is not a big deal, once you get the hang of it you can apply it to any car you drive, whether it be diesel or petrol. Confidence grows with experience. However, I do believe that some very nervous drivers or older drivers would definitely benefit from owning automatic cars.

Although I personally do not have any difficulty with a manual I do enjoy the ease of driving an automatic. Another of my cars doesn't have power steering which again I can cope with but much prefer to have power steering as would most people. Why we all think it is necessary to still drive manuals on the road is strange.

[johnp]

I teach in a 1.3 manual Yaris 4 cylinder petrol. It is now 10 years old and all drivers love it because it has that extra power compared to the 1 litre.

I have a real clutch in the box under the seat to illustrate how a clutch works.

I also teach in a 1.3 conventional Auto Yaris Verso which has adaptations for disability. Again superb for the job.

I specialise in teaching people with learning difficulties or physical difficulties and those following stroke or illness.

The suitability of vehicle used to learn is vital for some people, as not all are the same and I take many who have been told they will never drive when in fact it is the car which is unsuitable to their learning needs.

Because you can move a diesel on the clutch without any gas, many are taught to manoeuvre in that way. I prefer to teach in petrol so they can adapt easily to their own vehicles. The case illustrated by the OP is quite common.

[Raistlin]

It's just a question of practice, he should be acclimatised within a few hours.

[dwilson]

I teach in a 1.3 manual Yaris 4 cylinder petrol. It is now 10 years old and all drivers love it because it has that extra power compared to the 1 litre.

I have a real clutch in the box under the seat to illustrate how a clutch works.

I also teach in a 1.3 conventional Auto Yaris Verso which has adaptations for disability. Again superb for the job.

I specialise in teaching people with learning difficulties or physical difficulties and those following stroke or illness.

The suitability of vehicle used to learn is vital for some people, as not all are the same and I take many who have been told they will never drive when in fact it is the car which is unsuitable to their learning needs.

Because you can move a diesel on the clutch without any gas, many are taught to manoeuvre in that way. I prefer to teach in petrol so they can adapt easily to their own vehicles. The case illustrated by the OP is quite common.

Well that makes a lot more sense. There will be no problem going from a petrol to a torquey diesel but that can't be said for the reverse process.

I have considered buying another car (not that I want the cost) but then the cost of insurance with a young driver soars. I bought the Aygo two years ago partly with the thought of being able to help out one of my children later on but it looks like that may not work out. Time will tell!

David

[Filby]

My first driving experience (many, many years ago) was a holiday job aged 17 with a garage as assistant on the grease bay. The main man on the grease bay allowed me to bring round the customers' cars (Morris Minors in for their first service at 500 miles!) on strict instructions not to touch the accelerator. With one foot on the clutch and the other covering the brake at 2 mph, I (and the car) was in little danger but it taught me clutch control - after numerous stalls!

What worries me about the OP's question is that if someone hasn't mastered starting on the level without stalling, how on earth are they going to manage a hill start?

The best thing is to find a quiet level area (car park?) and practice manoeuvring without accelerator. It is possible, even in a petrol car! Much easier, in fact, with injection engines that with old carburettor types.

[johnp]

I would not consider changing the car as the Aygo is ideal for a new driver, but he will require practice and a few lessons to get confident using petrol.

[dwilson]

I would not consider changing the car as the Aygo is ideal for a new driver, but he will require practice and a few lessons to get confident using petrol.

Thank you for your positive comments. The stupid thing is that nearly 3 years ago before he had a proper lesson I took him to some private land and he could pull away and reverse back in an old Micra that my daughter sometimes drives. He had no problem with stalling or finding the biting point. He passed his test after many lessons first time but neither he nor I could justify the thousands that insurance companies wanted. I still have the Micra, no power steering and only driver's airbag (I didn't even have seatbelts when I first drove but roads seemed a lot quieter then and I lived in the country), I could change the insurance policies around so that he can drive the Micra but for safety I thought the Aygo would be the one to go for.

[johnp]

Get him on some hills and just practice holding it still just on the clutch and gas.;

Then merging on hills.

Use a quiet Sunday morning and you have your hand on the handbrake. !!

[dwilson]

Get him on some hills and just practice holding it still just on the clutch and gas.;

Then merging on hills.

Use a quiet Sunday morning and you have your hand on the handbrake. !!

Thank you - I will give it go

[Raistlin]

When I took my driving lessons my instructor used to put a matchbox behind the rear wheel so he would know if I rolled backwards when finding the biting point.

After three boxes I got the hang of it, and I now pride myself in having excellent clutch control.

Shame the rest is rubbish....

[mscotto]

No it is not. Being a 3 cylinder and fuel injection you need to rev the car a bit to pull off. I drive the Aygo and 107 very regularly and never stall them even though my daily drive is a Toyota Yaris 3 multidrive S (Automatic). If you want a car that is hard to pull off smoothly in try a Kia Piccanto. I also drive them regularly. The Aygo/107 is much much better.

[Cyker]

@mscotto - He meant that the rest of his driving is rubbish, not that the rest of the advice was rubbish

Actually if he can do hill starts in the diesel he's already learned the basics of an on-power start. Just treat the Aygo like every start is a hill start

I had the opposite problem when I first bought a diesel Yaris. Put in far too much power and the thing shot off like a whippet! Scared the crap out of me at first because I wasn't expecting that at all ("Diesels accelerate really slowly and have no power!" WHAT A LOAD OF %&$#@ ) but that quickly changed into a wide grin :D

[Ape man]

Do you think the petrol Aygo is difficult for a young driver who was taught how to drive in a diesel Clio to adjust to? I have driven all kinds of vehicles for many years and don't find the Aygo tricky but I recently discovered that starting from rest is difficult for a new driver due to the low torque of the 3 cylinder petrol engine. Personally I struggle for a smooth set off much more in our petrol RAV - which I drive less often.Has anyone else found the Aygo tricky? I thought it would be an ideal first car but perhaps not!

Hi d, i have a petrol urban cruiser and it's difficult to move off without increasing the engine revs. I put it down to poor fueling. If you take the revs to 1000/1100rmp and hold it there after a couple of seconds the revs will drop back to idle speed. Imo this coincides with when your on the clutch biting point. As a result the engine stalls. I've no idea if the same fueling fault applies to you car but it certainly does with mine. Also when you come off the throttle during gear changes the revs don,t respond for a second or so. Again poor fueling on the ecu map.

[dwilson]

Do you think the petrol Aygo is difficult for a young driver who was taught how to drive in a diesel Clio to adjust to? I have driven all kinds of vehicles for many years and don't find the Aygo tricky but I recently discovered that starting from rest is difficult for a new driver due to the low torque of the 3 cylinder petrol engine. Personally I struggle for a smooth set off much more in our petrol RAV - which I drive less often.Has anyone else found the Aygo tricky? I thought it would be an ideal first car but perhaps not!

Hi d, i have a petrol urban cruiser and it's difficult to move off without increasing the engine revs. I put it down to poor fueling. If you take the revs to 1000/1100rmp and hold it there after a couple of seconds the revs will drop back to idle speed. Imo this coincides with when your on the clutch biting point. As a result the engine stalls. I've no idea if the same fueling fault applies to you car but it certainly does with mine. Also when you come off the throttle during gear changes the revs don,t respond for a second or so. Again poor fueling on the ecu map.

Thanks for your reply which is interesting. With other petrol Toyotas I have driven the revs are kept up in between gear changes like you describe but that isn't the case in the Aygo.

I haven't a rev counter in my Aygo but can hear the engine note so I will see if it does drop from 1000 rpm after a couple of seconds - that would explain a lot if it does. Thank you.

David

[AlanTR]

People learning to drive first need to have a basic understanding of what's happening when they operate the foot pedals. Then they need to develop a feel for balancing the accelerator and clutch to give a smooth takeaway. The skills they learn should be transferable from car to car. Keeping it simple is the best way to learn - too much information just adds stress to the situation. Don't worry about what the rev counter is doing, years ago most cars didn't have them.

A lot of us 'ancients' learnt how to drive in unsophisticated cars with 'heavy' clutch pedals, no power steering, terrible gearboxes and very limited instrumentation. But learn we did and over the years became good drivers with experience of a lot of different cars. Confidence is a big part of it, too many people seem to be frightened of their cars!

My wife is an experienced, very competent driver but doesn't like switching from her diesel Hyundai IX20 to drive the Aygo. Guess what - it's all about the high clutch bite, once she get's used to it, she's ok - but still complains. As I say to her: "it's just a machine, it does what you want it to do, not the other way around!"

[dwilson]

"A lot of us 'ancients' learnt how to drive in unsophisticated cars with 'heavy' clutch pedals, no power steering, terrible gearboxes and very limited instrumentation. But learn we did and over the years became good drivers with experience of a lot of different cars. Confidence is a big part of it, too many people seem to be frightened of their cars!"

I would add no synchromesh and double clutching to that list but there were also far fewer cars around!

David

[Cyker]

Let me guess, you all had to drive up hill in the snow, both ways too :P

[Raistlin]

I had a man who ran in front with a red flag... :)

[Cyker]

[Colin J.S]

All this talk in many threads over time of the Aygo crunching gears between 1 & 2 and selecting reverse makes me cross! ....'most' modern cars gearboxes are SO goddamn forgiving to the modern (young) drivers! ..... ...just treat the Aygo like a lady and gently persuade her to gently change gear and you will not encounter an issue ........eg; when moving forward, if you actually bring the car to a 'stop' before trying to slam it into reverse it will never 'crunch' and likewise, why on earth would anyone be trying to select 1st from 2nd without coming to a halt first? ......Aygo's have a sweet gearbox if only we know how to actually drive!! ;-)