Knocking Noise

[Bald chewbacca]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum so I appreciate any help with an issue I have.

I bought a 07 Toyota Rav 4 T180 d-4d 2.2 yesterday from a private seller. No problems driving it the 40 miles home.

However today it has a serious knocking noise coming from both the front and rear of the car especially as I slow down, this knocking noise seems to be linked to the rotation of the wheels. At a crawl the noise from 2 of the wheels sounds like a crunching as they rotate. At speed the knocking noise is less frequent and can stop altogether for 5-10 mins

Any ideas as my car mechanical knowledge is akin to that of a chimp!

Many thanks

(The seller denies any problems, I now think the last service stamp was a fake, so the car might not have been serviced for 1 1/2 yrs and done 17k! The last MOT was a pass in June 2013 )

[gjnorthall]

It really depends if you mean a knocking noise or more of a rubbing noise? A rythymic rubbing noise could be corrosion on the brake discs resulting from the vehicle standing for a time. For any 2nd hand car bought privately - for your safety - get it checked out. You're probably aware of potential serious issues with the D4D engine of this era - hopefully this has been checked out since you've possibly got only a short period of time remaining of Toyota's goodwill extended warranty.

Whilst you have limited recourse against a private seller - making a false declaration such as faking the service history is an offence.

[Bald chewbacca]

Hi there thanks for the reply ,

I am not aware of the potential issues with the engine of this era, could you explain please.

Thank you

[Treborv8]

Hi, I'm also new to the forum but have a look at technical information hints & tips.

[The Striding Man]

Sounds like it may be a sticking pad or caliper. I have this problem on my 4.2 at the moment. It speeds up and slows down with the rotation of the road wheels and goes quiet when you apply the brakes. The car hasn't been used for 1 year so it's no surprise.

When it eventually decides to stop raining up here in Scotlandshire I may get the chance to look at it .

If your car was laid up for a period of time before you bought it then it may be a simple fix.

All the best.

[Bald chewbacca]

Thanks for the replies , I'm trying to do some internet research , I !Removed! hope it's not the DMF ..... I'm going to get it serviced and the problem investigated at a toyota garage. Get them to diagnose the problem and then call other garages to get quotes.

I'm really annoyed with seller and myself. The seller advertised it as having full service history but the last service stamp just says "workshop" and a signature. Also the mileage noted is 85k and dated 13/12 , however the mileage I bought it at was 91k so either the car had done 6k in 17 days or as I have said the last service is fake. I never noticed this when I checked log book the first time - so fuming with myself for being so naive .

😬😬😬😬😬

[firemac]

Thanks for the replies , I'm trying to do some internet research , I !Removed! hope it's not the DMF ..... I'm going to get it serviced and the problem investigated at a toyota garage. Get them to diagnose the problem and then call other garages to get quotes.

I'm really annoyed with seller and myself. The seller advertised it as having full service history but the last service stamp just says "workshop" and a signature. Also the mileage noted is 85k and dated 13/12 , however the mileage I bought it at was 91k so either the car had done 6k in 17 days or as I have said the last service is fake. I never noticed this when I checked log book the first time - so fuming with myself for being so naive .

If the noise is coming from the wheels then it's unlikely to be the DMF which, if it were on the way out, would create a variety of symptoms such as driveline vibration, clutch take-up, gearchange issues, etc.

Re the diesel engine problems, have a look at the second thread in the pinned section above "Charlie's Guide to the diesel engine probs....."

The advice above re getting satisfaction from a private seller in the event of problems is sound but the point about misrepresentation is well made. If you still have the dated ad with the lower mileage and you relied upoon his assurances about the veracity of the service history then he may well be guilty of a fundamental breach of good faith which would taint the contract that resulted from it. I'm no lawyer but I've negotiated enough contracts in my time to have learned that sometimes if you put somebody who you know is in the wrong under enough pressure, they'll come around to your point of view.

Without wanting so sound alarmist i would be more worried that he may have doctored the MOT ticket if he was prepared to dummy-up the service history. If he has, then the DVLA & Plod would want to speak with him. Could be worth injecting that into any chat you may have.

[Bald chewbacca]

Hi firemac,

I've checked the mot and it's all registered on the govt direct site as well as the previous MOTs so all hopefully all good there. No previous fails regarding mechanics or engine. I'm going to ring up the garage that completed what looks like the last official service and ask them what details they have about what work was done and any advisories. I've asked the seller for details of who completed last service .... Unsurprisingly they haven't replied..... If it materialises that costly repairs are needed I'm going to call the seller and explain he sold it falsely as full service history and I will be seeking legal advice. I still have the advert , which was on Autotrader.

Can't believe I'm having this hassle at new year ! Could be an expensive lesson to learn me thinks.

[firemac]

Hi firemac,

I've checked the mot and it's all registered on the govt direct site as well as the previous MOTs so all hopefully all good there. No previous fails regarding mechanics or engine. I'm going to ring up the garage that completed what looks like the last official service and ask them what details they have about what work was done and any advisories. I've asked the seller for details of who completed last service .... Unsurprisingly they haven't replied..... If it materialises that costly repairs are needed I'm going to call the seller and explain he sold it falsely as full service history and I will be seeking legal advice. I still have the advert , which was on Autotrader.

Can't believe I'm having this hassle at new year ! Could be an expensive lesson to learn me thinks.

Well that's something less to worry about at least. Hopefully it will be something relatively simple as the chaps have mentioned above.

Keep us posted on how it goes and best of luck.

[three5]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum so I appreciate any help with an issue I have.

I bought a 07 Toyota Rav 4 T180 d-4d 2.2 yesterday from a private seller. No problems driving it the 40 miles home.

However today it has a serious knocking noise coming from both the front and rear of the car especially as I slow down, this knocking noise seems to be linked to the rotation of the wheels. At a crawl the noise from 2 of the wheels sounds like a crunching as they rotate. At speed the knocking noise is less frequent and can stop altogether for 5-10 mins

Any ideas as my car mechanical knowledge is akin to that of a chimp!

Many thanks

(The seller denies any problems, I now think the last service stamp was a fake, so the car might not have been serviced for 1 1/2 yrs and done 17k! The last MOT was a pass in June 2013 )

Hi Mat - and welcome to TOC!

Just a thought, but has the car got it's original wheels and are they tightened up correctly?

Wheels ( even the correct ones ) which are loose on their studs can generate the sort of noise you describe.

Originally this car was fitted with the Bridgestone Runflat System ( BSR ) and there are a number of threads on this site about it and the availability of tyres to suit it. If the wheels have been changed, are the holes which fit over the vehicle hubs the correct size? If they are too big this will result in the generation of the sort of noise you describe as the wheels "work" on the studs.

jack the car up and remove a wheel completely. Check that the hole in the middle of the wheel is a "sliding fit" over the hubs and there is no play. When you refit the wheel, ideally you should use a torque wrench to get a nice even loading on all the studs. Tightening wheel nuts is not supposed to be a competitive business - tighter is not better beyond the torque that the designer intended. It is not necessary to get obsessed with the problem, just get them as tight as you reasonably can using the original Toyota wheel spanner. Don't be tempted to use a very long handled socket wrench or a piece of tube over the end of the Toyota wrench.

A well know wheel manufacturer not a million miles from you did some testing on overtightening wheel nuts many years ago. Seriously overtightened nuts resulted in cracks developing between the stud holes. I saw some photos of the results and it wasn't pretty! HTH

[Bald chewbacca]

HTH, thanks for the advice

The wheels are different and I've noticed the tyre pressure light is on .

Rear tyres are Bridgestone potenza re031 235/55r18

Front tyres are Delinte thunder d7 235/55r18

(Can I say a big Thank-you to everyone who has posted and given advice , it means I can go into a garage armed with areas for them to check)

[Big Kev]

Your rear tyres are the second NOISIEST tyres after Pirelli Scorpions.

Your front tyres must have been from F.W. Woolworth the week they were shutting down. (Pick 'n' Mix counter....)

Your TPMS Light is on coz some self abuser, who hopefully will go blind as a result, has had one or more of the sender units removed and replaced with normal valves, AND SHOULD BE SHOT WITH A BALL OF HIS OWN BOWEL WASTE.

Post up a photo of the wheels, and stonking advice from Three5 Chris.........has the sphinctus actually cracked one or more of yer different wheels with over tight wheel nuts......? Did you notice this car was decidedly cheaper than any of its advertised siblings....?

If you bought on price, sorry mate........you buy cheap, ye buy twice ah always say.......more so with cars.

Possibly also he got the Far King TPMS light cancelled pre sale ( only Toyota dealer can do.....), but now it returns after a wee while, its typical behaviour. It normally takes a few days to register a deflation, and that is when it is "working properly" FFS.

Sorry.......realise the foregoing is as welcome as piles, but is only my opinion. You have me VERY concerned aboot what you term "different wheels"........

[Bald chewbacca]

Hi their , probably worded my reply incorrectly the wheels are all the same but the tyres are different as stated.

I'm taking it to a toyota garage on Monday ( as a one off) to have it serviced and look at the problem.

Any other advice ? I have a Mr Tyre near, are they any good with run flats? should I get it into them earlier?

Well ****** off. My mind is racing whether it's bearings , suspension, bushes, discs, pads, DMF, wheels, tyres ........ Aaarrgghh

[Bald chewbacca]

How do I post photos?

[three5]

Hi their , probably worded my reply incorrectly the wheels are all the same but the tyres are different as stated.

I'm taking it to a toyota garage on Monday ( as a one off) to have it serviced and look at the problem.

Any other advice ? I have a Mr Tyre near, are they any good with run flats? should I get it into them earlier?

Well ****** off. My mind is racing whether it's bearings , suspension, bushes, discs, pads, DMF, wheels, tyres ........ Aaarrgghh

Hi Mat,

Charlie Farlie, one of our other esteemed contributors did a step-by-step guide to "cutting the pink wire" to turn off the TPMS. If the runflats have been changed for other tyres, as Big Kev says, it is possible that the TPMS sender unit in the wheel(s) have been removed / damaged. I have a feeling that they cost over £100 each ( don't hold me to that! ) so you might not want to spend that sort of money on getting them / it fixed.

Hoovie ( another esteemed contributer ) and I both have an after market TPMS system that is about the cost of a single Toyota wheel sensor and actually displays the pressure and temperature in each tyre.

The Bridgestone Runflats are different to any other system on the market and AFAIK are only fitted to the T180. They need a special machine to change the tyres which not even all the Toyota dealers could afford. There is an outside chance that Mr Tyre has such a machine - but it is very unlikely!

Charlie's guide to the BSR system and his instruction about the pink wire are both in the Technical Information ( 4.3, Misc. ) section at the top of the forum.

[Bald chewbacca]

Hi chris , what is the name of the aftermarket sensor you used?

Here are photos if wheels & tyres.

1st = passenger rear

2nd = driver rear

3rd = passenger front

4th = driver front

[Davrav]

Those are the correct wheel pattern for the car Mat

[three5]

Hi chris , what is the name of the aftermarket sensor you used?

Here are photos if wheels & tyres.

1st = passenger rear

2nd = driver rear

3rd = passenger front

4th = driver front

Hi Mat,

Mine is a Tyresure system which was fitted almost 6 years ago. Hoovie has an identical system which he bought ( I think ) from the US. It is the one shown in this link: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orange-TPMS-Tire-Pressure-Monitoring-System-4-G-Sensors-433-MHz-For-4-Wheel-Cars-/360818158663

Also have a look at: http://www.tyrepal.co.uk/products/tb99-4-or-5-wheel-tpms This looks like a better bet as the batteries are user replaceable and it looks as though you could easily swap them from winter to summer tyres.

[philip42h]

From the picture above, all four wheels appear to have normal valves - the Toyota TPMS ones have a metallic stem rather than rubber as shown. That would explain why the TPMS warning light is 'on' - it believes that there is no pressure in any of the tyres!

The rims themselves look to be the standard 18" rims for a T180 / SR180 so they should fit the hub correctly (bar previous damage etc.). I'd have expected to see silver coloured studs (rather than black) and one locking wheel stud on each wheel (as I had on my SR180) though what you have could have been standard at that time.

So:

• There's nothing obviously wrong with your rims or tyres - though you probably want 'better' rubber when it's time for a change.
• There's nothing much a standard tyre depot can do about the TPMS situation. Your choices are to go to Mr T to get the TPMS valves reinstated (new valves plus coding into the ECU), 'cut' the 'pink wire' or put up with the warning light.

Neither of which has any obvious bearing on the problem you originally reported ...

[three5]

Those are the correct wheel pattern for the car Mat

Nice one David - at least that is one cost ( wrong wheels ) that Mat won't have. Do the tyre valves on Mat's photos look like the original Toyota TPMS units?

Sorry Phillip - you answered the question as I posted. Thought transference or what

[Bald chewbacca]

Can I say a huge Thankyou for the help. I think I'm going to get it into toyota and take in a sheet with your advice and potential issues I want them to check and diagnose the problem and cost of rectifying.

If the tyres are safe and the wheels are then I'll stick with them. As long as I don't have wrong mix of run flat and normal tyres , I can investigate an aftermarket tpms unit to be installed. The knocking is the worrying part.

[UncleBob]

Mate you dont mention how much you paid for the car. was it cheap. cos with respect i have been reading and you must have bought it with the tpms light on ? not being funny but the car sounds like a right mongrel.

i have been reeding here about these cars and lots of the T cars seem to have lots of problems mostly with engines. in the guide wriiten by that charlie bloke it says tyres cant be mixed so looks like you will need tyres to add to the list. why not take the car back and demand back the money unless it was cheap its goin to get very dear

[Bald chewbacca]

Bob I paid £6k for it , I thought it was a good price but not stupidly cheap due to the mileage. And do you know I can't remember seeing the tpms on !, but that doesn't mean it wasn't! my head is in a right mess. I've been doing some digging around and have found out the seller is in the car trade! (Facebook is a powerful tool) .

I'm going to ask a second time for the garage details of the last service if he doesn't give it to me then I'll tell him he has misrepresented the sale and I want my money back if not I'll get legal advice. I have a feeling this could get messy. As I have said I can't believe I've been so stupid and trustworthy, feel sick to my stomach

[UncleBob]

from what ive seen 6 grand is cheap for a 07 T180.. ive been looking at getting one but the engine problem and the ruflat tyres and the cost for parts is very dear. if the bloke who sold it is a trader i would demand the money back of go strait to trading standards. end of.

[UncleBob]

ment to say i hope you get it sorted out,