Yaris Reliability

[Twang53]

Hi All.

I require an opinion from as many of you who are willing to give me an honest answer.

I have discovered certain websites who seem to encourage negative reviews about Toyota and the Yaris generally. In fact they revel in doing it.

I cannot believe that all of them can be down to build quality and reliability issues.

Yes you will get the odd lemon very occasionally. You can't avoid it with mass production. But to that extent? Even VW and Audi get it wrong from time to time,as does every other car manufacturer!. I find this "Let's Bash Toyota" attitude really quite tedious.

My opinion for what it's worth is that many people just can't drive.

Many talk about gearbox problems. What problems?, I've never had any.

Others talk of faults that I've never come across. I can only tell it as I see it.

There are lots of Toyotas on the roads round here, many of which are Yarises. People obviously like them. In fact, the Yaris seems to have a pretty good owner satisfaction record generally.

I doubt that would be the case if they weren't well built and reliable, plus a 5 star NCAP safety rating to boot.

That speaks volumes in itself as far as I'm concerned.

I keep thinking that these dozy dillops don't drive them properly or get them serviced right, if at all.

Then They blame Toyota and try to convince others that they are a heap of junk, especially the Yaris.

Any thoughts on this?.

Cheers.

[FROSTYBALLS]

One thing to bear in mind is that most people only access online forums, etc when they have an issue they want an answer to.

Think the majority of owners, who may or may not be perfectly OK with their car, never post reviews or visit forums.

Sites like Honest John can be useful to highlight potential issues with cars - but with HJ there has been a tendency recently to post single examples of problems that owners have had. This may not be particularly useful as they may not truly reflect whether the problem is widespread or isolated.

Since the large recalls of 2009 (accelerator pedal for example),I think Toyota has made widespread use of the recall system to ensure that certain issues are addressed. Whereas other manufacturers use the system as little as possible.

You highlight VAG as getting it wrong from time to time - they have big problems with DSG gearboxes in both China and Australia. Certainly with Australia, VAG have wiped their hands of the issues, and have left it to the Australian importer to sort out the mess.

I don't think their record of dealing with issues, whether at manufacturer or dealership level, is as good as Toyota's.

As regards the Yaris, in the Which? 2013 car survey, the Yaris (2006-11) acheived an owner satisfaction score of 79%, achieved a total score of 74%, and was a Which? Best Buy.

Similarly the later model (2011 on) scored 82% for owner satisfaction, achieved a total score of 80% and was a Which? Best Buy.

The Yaris Hybrid did less well - scoring 81% for owner satisfaction, achieving a total score of 77%, and was again a Which? Best Buy.

[MikeSh]

There are lots of Toyotas on the roads round here, many of which are Yarises. People obviously like them. In fact, the Yaris seems to have a pretty good owner satisfaction record generally.

That's part of the problem. There are a LOT of the little beasts around, so a small percentage of problems is actually quite a large number of irate forum posters. There are downsides to being (one of) the world's largest car makers, as the size of some recalls shows.

[Madasafish]

You must remember that certain magazines tend to favour certain makes - Ford and BMW are obvious examples. Given BMW's proven poor reliability record, that is surprising but Badge blindness is common place.

I treat most internet comments as not worth the paper they are written on:-)

[Twang53]

Thanks Madasafish.

I wasn't aware that BMW had a reliability issue. But it proves my point. Tell me more.

I think that yours is probably the best attitude to have regarding internet comments.

Cheers.

Twang.

[Twang53]

Thanks Frostyballs.

I confess I had no idea that VAG had problems to the extent that you mention. I find that rather encouraging.

I was told once when I visited the local Honda showroom that Audi had a problem with warning lights illuminating on the dashboard of the AA model.

Drivers thought there was a serious problem, but apparently Audi didn't want to know. But this was over 10 years ago, so may be no longer relevant.

The saleslady told me at the time that Honda would NEVER adopt that attitude, and that if a dealership ever did so there would be BIG TROUBLE!.

I would like to think that Toyota would have that same attitude.

Cheers.

Twang.

[Parts-King]

We have had Ford, and Suzuki in the group, as well as being Toyota and Honda dealers and a Subaru service agent. I can tell you that NONE of those other brands are fault free, you would be very suprised at the level of warranty repairs on some marques.

Kingo

[Twang53]

Hi Parts-King.

Thanks to people like you, Frostyballs and Madasafish, I no longer feel marginalised on the fringe of public opinion as to the Toyota reliability issue. What you have just told me echoes their views and mine. I've often thought that there are no bad cars as such today.

No car manufacturer deliberately builds a pile of crap. Whether built in Japan or Timbukhtu, the build quality, reliability and attention to detail should be the same around the world. Indeed as you know yourself, their reputations depend on building quality products backed up by exemplary customer service.

Thanks for your input.

Twang.

[Geoff Peace]

I rate the reliability of Toyota very highly, I have been connected with the motor trade since the early fifties so I have seen many faults on many cars. One thing about Toyota is they are not the cheapest on the road, it is possible to by an 'equivalent' more cheaply. My wife bought a Yaris in 2005 and one thing which impressed me was the quality of the electrical connectors and the wiring in general. Cars are now much more reliable mechanically than say forty, fifty years ago, but they are much more unreliable electrically because of all the electronics on modern cars. This, to me, is where Toyota scores. My wife had her first Yaris for nearly seven years, no trouble at all. She recently bought a new Mk.3 yaris, just as reliable. I think Toyota are first class in the reliability index, in my opinion anyway!

Regards Geoff Peace.

[Twang53]

Hi Geoff.

Thanks very much for your frank reply. Many people, at least from what I've read on-line claim that now the Yaris is made in France, and has been I believe since 2001 as you will no doubt know, it is not as reliable as when it was made in Japan.

I've had people say the same about Honda. Then again, still others claim they are as well made as those from the far east.

The same is true for Toyota.

When I watched the Yaris factory in France on YouTube. I was amazed at the level of care, commitment and dedication to the build quality.

The total belief and faith in the product they were making was evident. It is the same story in Wales on Deeside where the Auris and Yaris engines are made. They've even started production of the hybrid engine. I think they said theirs is the only factory outside Japan that is currently building it. Have a look for yourself, you'll be amazed. I was.

Thanks.

Twang

[Cyker]

I remember when they initially moved production to France; There were issues in quality and you really had to go for the Made in Japan ones if you wanted a trouble-free life, but Toyota sent some bigwigs to give them a stern talking to and they've been fine since :)

I personally think my Mk1 5-door D4D Yaris is the best car ever made :D

[Twang53]

Hi Cyker.

Thanks for your time. Yes I can also remember hearing that quality was a big issue there. However as you rightly say, whatever problems existed seem to have been cured.

Have you seen the Yaris factory in France?. If you google it or Toyota France you'll see for yourself. It is quite fascinating. I was immediately aware that the build quality and attention to detail were as much a part of their philosophy as Toyota Japan.

[Parts-King]

I have never held the belief that only cars in Japan are built to the highest standards, it is a load of bunkum! When cars were made in Japan and shipped over, we were only importing piddling amounts of them, thats why people believe they were the best, the amounts were small and therefore the associated problems / quality issues were small too. The factories Toyota own, wherever they are in the world, produce the same quality as in Japan, they are usually headed up by one of the Japanese, or by top managers who have worked in Japan and are well aware of the company philosophy. These days millions of cars are made OUTSIDE Japan, and with the first fault, people attribute that to being a none Japanese build, it is just not true that quality builds are only available in Japan. It is not a coincidence that the Toyota manufacturing system (The Toyota way-Google it) Is THE manufacturing system copied all around the world by all sorts of manufacturers.

Kingo

[Cyker]

@Twang - Did you mean this? -

[Twang53]

Hi Cyker. Sure did. Hope you enjoyed it. It's good to see where our cars are built.

You might also be interested in the engine plant in Deeside Wales. Also on youtube.

[Twang53]

Hi Kingo.

Have you seen The Toyota Story? you can google it. It began as a tiny family business making looms.

Enjoy.

[Twang53]

Hi again Cyker.

Have a look at Toyota the Global Story on youtube when you have time to spare. It's only 20 minutes long.

I absolutely love it. It is proof of the dedication of the people built your car and mine.

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards cars built outside Japan, we have had the following new cars:

1994 Honda Concerto - built by Rover at Longbridge

1998 Nissan Primera - built at Sunderland

2001 Nissan Primera - built at Sunderland

2006 Toyota Corolla - built at Burnaston

2007 Mazda 2 - built by Ford at Valencia, Spain

2009 Toyota Auris - built at Burnaston

2012 Toyota Auris - built at Burnaston

Of the above, all were built to a high standard. We experienced no faults with three during the new car warranty period - the two Primera and the current Auris. The others all had one minor fault each during the new car warranty - repaired under warranty.

We experienced similar levels of faults with other 9 new Japanese-built cars we've had (either no faults or one fault each during the new car warranty period). These included cars from Nissan, Honda, Mazda and Toyota.

The Concerto had the most interesting production arrangement. They were built by Rover at Longbridge, and unlike the equivalent Rover 200/400, used Honda 1.5 and 1.6 engines (although the later diesel Concerto sold on the Continent was just a re-badged Rover 200 diesel with the Rover diesel engine). All Longbridge assembled Concertos were shipped down to Honda at Swindon (a distance of around 50 miles each way) to undergo Honda Quality Assurance before being distributed to the dealer network. Cars requiring rectification were shipped back to Longbridge for the required rectification, and then re-submiited to Swindon for Honda QA.

[Twang53]

Thanks.

That definitely proves the point I think.

[Twang53]

Hi Frostyballs.

The accelerator pedal you mention. Am I right in thinking that this was an alleged problem in the USA only?.

I have to confess that I've never read of it happening either here or in the rest of Europe.

Just about 18 months to 2 years ago, when I visited my local Toyota dealer, I spoke to one of the salesmen about this very issue.

He told me that Toyota was so concerned that they actually brought in NASA scientists to check the parts that were supposed to be faulty. They tested literally thousands of these components and guess what. Their findings were that NOT ONE of those parts was faulty. This was after the President of Toyota was forced to make that grovelling apology to Congress.

My view is, and has been for many many years that the problem "component" in most cars is the DRIVER.

How many people actually bother to lift the bonnet and check their oil, radiator, washer bottle or clutch/brake fluid?

How often do they check tyre pressures and tread depth and to see if there is damage to the tyre walls?

They run their cars right down on fuel 'til they're running on vapours, or they completely run out or mis-fuel the car.

There are people out there of both sexes who think that all they have to do is put a nozzle in the fuel tank, and all the rest will mysteriously take care of itself. These are the very people who then denigrade Toyota.

[Uncle Bob]

This website is an eye opener to all brands of car recalls......

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/

[Geoff Peace]

Hi Frostyballs.

The accelerator pedal you mention. Am I right in thinking that this was an alleged problem in the USA only?.

I have to confess that I've never read of it happening either here or in the rest of Europe.

Just about 18 months to 2 years ago, when I visited my local Toyota dealer, I spoke to one of the salesmen about this very issue.

He told me that Toyota was so concerned that they actually brought in NASA scientists to check the parts that were supposed to be faulty. They tested literally thousands of these components and guess what. Their findings were that NOT ONE of those parts was faulty. This was after the President of Toyota was forced to make that grovelling apology to Congress.

My view is, and has been for many many years that the problem "component" in most cars is the DRIVER.

How many people actually bother to lift the bonnet and check their oil, radiator, washer bottle or clutch/brake fluid?

How often do they check tyre pressures and tread depth and to see if there is damage to the tyre walls?

They run their cars right down on fuel 'til they're running on vapours, or they completely run out or mis-fuel the car.

There are people out there of both sexes who think that all they have to do is put a nozzle in the fuel tank, and all the rest will mysteriously take care of itself. These are the very people who then denigrade Toyota.

At the time the US had just pumped a huge number of dollars into the home car manufacturers. Nothing like discrediting the opposition to sway public opinion, just ever so slightly of course!

Regards Geoff Peace.

[Twang53]

Now that Geoff, I CAN believe.

[Twang53]

Hi again Geoff.

Having received such positive feedback from so many Toyota owners, it all boils down to one thing in the end.

It's not the problems themselves that necessarily cause frustration and grief. It has more to do with how a particular manufacturer responds to it. I think Toyota are about as positive as any of them can ever be.

[FROSTYBALLS]

As far as I'm aware the possible cause of intended acceleration of Toyota cars was thought to be either the car mat moving forward and preventing movement of the accelerator pedal, the accelerator pedal assembly itself or the electronic throttle control system that Toyota used.

In the US Toyota had a recall involving the car mats, and a far wider recall involving the accelerator pedal.

The NHTSA investigation concentrated on the electronic throttle control (which is where NASA involved), but found no identifiable fault.

With the accelerator pedal, two assemblies were used by Toyota in a variety of vehicles (including cars in the UK). One assembly was made by the Japanese company Denso and was problem free. The other assembly was made by a division of General Motors, and this could develop play in the mechanism, which could result in the pedal becoming 'sticky' in operation. Vehicles which had this second assembly were recalled (my 2009 Auris was one), and the 40 minutes fix was to take out the pedal assembly, and insert a shim to take up any free movement in the mechanism.

I think the majority of unintended acceleration incidents that occurred, were, in the end, put down to driver error (eg. drivers pressing the wrong pedal when trying to slow).

Partly due to the way the US legal system works, and the fact that no clearly identifiable cause was uncovered for these incidents, Toyota settled some ongoing cases out of court a couple of years later - purely, I think, to draw a line under the affair, rather than admit any blame.

Another example of how Toyota use the recall system was the recall for the master power window switch on some models. See http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-announces-recall-of-auris-rav4-yaris-and-corolla-in-the-uk

Toyota identified that as the switch wore, operation could became notchy or uneven. Some owners tried to lubricate the switch. It was identified that if the wrong type of lubricant was used, this could lead to the switch overheating. So despite the fact that any problem arising could be down to owner error, Toyota undertook a voluntary recall and replaced some switches or used a special lubricant to ease operation.

Compare this to the situation uncovered with Renault Clio II bonnet catches (featured on BBC Watchdog), where owners experienced the bonnet catch failing whilst the car was being driver, the bonnet flying up, smashing the windscreen and causing a few accidents. Renault refused to admit there was a problem with the bonnet catch, and insisted it was down to lack of maintenance by the owner.