Yaris Reliability

[Twang53]

Thanks. That has cleared up this mystery. Most problems with cars in my humble opinion, is that many people just can't drive, at least not properly. As for lifting the bonnet or getting them serviced for some...forget it!

[t-spiritpete]

Quote ..." Renault refused to admit there was a problem with the bonnet catch,
and insisted it was down to lack of maintenance by the owner" what a load of poo that was.

Many months/years later my daughters Clio was recalled for a replacement bonnet catch, too late as far as I was concerned and had already checked it out and kept her safe, the Clio also had a major problem with the wiring loom chaffing causing problems to the ecu ... they never sorted that one and it cost owners a lot or ££££££££££££'s, I modified that one myself also :-)

Pete

[Madasafish]

7 years ago Renault's UK market share was c 7%.

Last year it was around 2%.

[louise74]

My first car was a Ford Ka, it never failed me as such but by six years old it was a rust bucket, The car was first registered in 1998, my ex colleague bought an "04" model within 4 years it was starting to rust. The problem was well documented but Ford did nothing. I was forced to get rid of what was a mechanically sound car because the body work was in such a state despite my care.

I then got a Yaris, it was a 05 plate, 998cc. I had that car from just turned 4 years old till last Christmas and I cared for it, if it wasn't for the fact that my job changed and with it my mileage increased I would still have that car, it never let me down. I drove it all over the country and in all weathers. My colleague has a Yaris that was registered in 1999, it has never let her down and she, like me has driven it everywhere.

I now have an 2011 plate Yaris and I love it, its a 1.33 engine. When the time came to change there was only ever going to be one option for me, another Yaris. I care for my car, a lot and ensure that I know where everything is under the bonnet and how to check everything. I also have it serviced yearly, I think with a Yaris, as with most cars what you put in is what you get out.

In my 8 years of driving I can never remember seeing a Toyota broken down at the side of the road..

[Twang53]

Hi Louise and well done.

I too had a T reg '99 1.0ltr GLS model Yaris. What a fantistic little car it was. I kept it for 10 years and passed it onto my baby brother on th 12th of November last year. It was 4 years old when I bought it. On the 15th of November last year, I bought my 2011 T Spirit.

If I had to give you only one word to describe it,it would be awesome!

You are absolute proof of what I've long believed. If you look after your car and drive it properly It should never give any trouble.

[chrispr]

I've just looked through the Honest John review and the vast majority of faults seem to be around the MMT gearbox. I haven't got one so I can't comment on that, but my Yaris has been completely reliable for nearly two years now. Regular checks and oil changes do wonders for cars.

[Lorna2]

My first car was a Ford Ka, it never failed me as such but by six years old it was a rust bucket, The car was first registered in 1998, my ex colleague bought an "04" model within 4 years it was starting to rust. The problem was well documented but Ford did nothing. I was forced to get rid of what was a mechanically sound car because the body work was in such a state despite my care.

I then got a Yaris, it was a 05 plate, 998cc. I had that car from just turned 4 years old till last Christmas and I cared for it, if it wasn't for the fact that my job changed and with it my mileage increased I would still have that car, it never let me down. I drove it all over the country and in all weathers. My colleague has a Yaris that was registered in 1999, it has never let her down and she, like me has driven it everywhere.

I now have an 2011 plate Yaris and I love it, its a 1.33 engine. When the time came to change there was only ever going to be one option for me, another Yaris. I care for my car, a lot and ensure that I know where everything is under the bonnet and how to check everything. I also have it serviced yearly, I think with a Yaris, as with most cars what you put in is what you get out.

In my 8 years of driving I can never remember seeing a Toyota broken down at the side of the road..

My Mum had a Ka from new and after a year, it had started to rust. The screws on the rear passenger windows had rusted. That was her last Ford, and she got Toyotas after that.

Someone I know has a Yaris from 2000 and like the one your colleague has, its never let her down.

[Twang53]

Hi Chris.

Purely going by what I've read. It appears that the MMT is a manual gearbox controlled by actuators. A robot, as one person called it.

Apparently, taking your foot off the gas pedal during gear change will smooth out the running to a very large extent.

The problem for most people is that they think of it as an automatic which it isn't.

As for your other point. Oil checks etc. Quite right.

[MikeSh]

Purely going by what I've read. It appears that the MMT is a manual gearbox controlled by actuators. A robot, as one person called it.

Correct.

The problem for most people is that they think of it as an automatic which it isn't.

It is not what people think of as a 'traditional' automatic, ie. a Borg-Warner type with hydraulic torque converter. But neither are CVTs or DSGs. DVLA definition of automatic is basically self-changing gears and no clutch pedal. My engineering definition is a device or system that operates without human intervention. An MMT is automatic on both counts.

Apparently, taking your foot off the gas pedal during gear change will smooth out the running to a very large extent.

No. It's a terrible idea (with the possible exception of when in manual mode) and probably responsible for a lot of peoples 'problems' with MMTs. Virtually all automatics use the pedal position as a demand indication and alter the shift rpm to suit. When you lift your foot you move the goal posts and you can end up with the box making an up-change that wasn't what you wanted, so then you push harder and the box changes down again, and you end up chasing each other. Just apply the power you want and leave your foot there. The gearbox and engine control units are quite pally and in both auto and manual modes the engine rpm is managed to ensure a smooth change. The system can sometimes get a little clunky through it's self learning and a dealer reset is recommended for this (it does seem to help, for a while anyway), but clearly it is never going to give you the 'gapless' changes that a CVT or (good) B-W box will.

In manual mode lifting off while changing under power will reduce the pull when the clutch re-engages, but this is just because you are not going to be accelerating as much. I leave my right foot in the same position when using manual mode and the changes are generally very smooth. Certainly changing down on a hill is better than I could consistently achieve with a manual box because the control units do a better job of matching engine-gearbox rpm than I can.

All that said the MMT system is pretty rubbish at the budget end. Compared to a B-W system it's relatively cheap and more economical, especially in a small car, but the implementations by Toyota and others (under other names) all seem to have reliability issues as well as feeling odd to new users (It takes a while to get used to the car changing gear without you doing anything - it is truly quite weird). I believe some high end sports cars with paddle shifts use the same system (principle) but of course they throw a lot more money at it and overall reliability of those cars is often, er, interesting :)

[Cyker]

Actually he is correct to a degree - One of the major problems with MMT is it doesn't do any kind of shaft-synching, so if you are accelerating quite hard the gear change can be very harsh (Like, a learner who hasn't let go of the accelerator when shifting gear, causing the engine to surge before the clutch is re-engaged).

This can be quite a common problem on MMT systems that have 'learned' or where the clutch plates are quite worn. A few people here have mentioned that lifting off a little can reduce the jerkiness.

I personally found that the only way to avoid jerky changes was to accelerate very gently or drive it in manual mode when I tried one. Under hard acceleration I found it scarily unpredictable, esp. accelerating hard from a standstill (e.g. when trying to enter a busy roundabout), and to this day hate them quite passionately.

They aren't so bad on the more powerful engines from what I hear, and apparently they managed to massage the firmware on the last Aurises so that it worked better but a bit too little too late by then.

Personally the only Toyota automatics I'd touch is one of their old torque-convertors or a HSD. Apparently the CVT isn't bad either but I've not driven one of those yet, and past bad experiences with belt-driven CVTs has put me off them for life too!

[MikeSh]

Actually he is correct to a degree - One of the major problems with MMT is it doesn't do any kind of shaft-synching, so if you are accelerating quite hard the gear change can be very harsh (Like, a learner who hasn't let go of the accelerator when shifting gear, causing the engine to surge before the clutch is re-engaged).

This can be quite a common problem on MMT systems that have 'learned' or where the clutch plates are quite worn. A few people here have mentioned that lifting off a little can reduce the jerkiness.

I personally found that the only way to avoid jerky changes was to accelerate very gently or drive it in manual mode when I tried one. Under hard acceleration I found it scarily unpredictable, esp. accelerating hard from a standstill (e.g. when trying to enter a busy roundabout), and to this day hate them quite passionately.

They aren't so bad on the more powerful engines from what I hear, and apparently they managed to massage the firmware on the last Aurises so that it worked better but a bit too little too late by then.

Personally the only Toyota automatics I'd touch is one of their old torque-convertors or a HSD. Apparently the CVT isn't bad either but I've not driven one of those yet, and past bad experiences with belt-driven CVTs has put me off them for life too!

As I said, they (or at least our Yaris D4D and the Aygo I had) do shaft sync. It's actually a criticism I have because under hard acceleration the upshifts can be quite sluggish as it waits for the engine to slow down and match before re-engaging. With a manual you'd slide the clutch in earlier to use that inertia. I had a Vauxhall van with their version (Corsa/Astra engine I think) and that had a much faster change. But as it's a cheap, everyday system Toyota probably didn't bother with the extra programming needed.

Yes, reducing power will reduce the forces - obviously. But it also changes the box operation, so the reduction has to be quite subtle. Many drivers don't do subtle - it's either on or off - so suggesting they lift off for gearchange can make things worse.

We've never had any problem with roundabouts, etc, bar spinning the front wheels if wet and enthusiastic are combined :) , but that's not the gearbox. As it sounds like you've only test driven one I think you may be feeling a jerkiness that is an illusion - as I said, they feel very weird to drive at first. The situation is quite odd because the sensation is the same as you get as a passenger in a manual vehicle (acceleration - coast while gears change - acceleration) but as an MMT driver that effect makes it feel like you are lurching forward and back. I think it is probably because during a manual-box shift one would be pushing the clutch down, and thus one's back into the seat, so your brain is simply confused by the new situation. After a while you get reprogrammed and I don't notice it all these days, even though I drive another quite different car as well. (That's the car I replaced the Aygo with which has a 'proper' B-W type box, but fuel economy wasn't on the shopping list for that one.)

[Madasafish]

I have driven CVT Yarises and have a CVT Jazz (with torque convertor). No problems at all. The Jazz changes are smooth and perfectly imperceptible - no human driver could achieve such smoothness (at least I cannot!)

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just to highlight the fact the VAG are having their own issues as regards reliability, see the following newspaper report from November - http://www.thelocal.de/20131115/vw-recalls-million-faulty-cars

[Lustral]

my MK3 SR has hit 20K Miles already , few niggly issues aside , but nothing major has happened to the car.

[Twang53]

Hi Frostyballs.

Thanks very much for that. It proves what I've long suspected. That German cars can give as much trouble as everyone elses.

Toyota sceptics take note!

[PAMDILL]

I have had 3 Yarises and a Mark 2 Prius, my husband has a 56 plate Yaris T2, we have always kept our cars well maintained, regular checks of oil, water etc.

The first yaris I bought was a 2000 Yaris T3, it had a few teething issues - ie.loose screws floating around inside the dash and the front door panels, one burst the door speaker. However once they were all fixed I ran it for the best part of 4 years and 80,000 miles with no problem.

The second Yaris was a 2004 D4D, again I had no problems with it but only kept it for 18 months and then got the Prius. I had a few problems with the Prius with brakes, mainly the actuators, as a result I traded it in once I hit the 60,000 miles mark as the replacement of the actuators which was done under warranty would have cost £1,500 and I did not want to take the chance.

My husband's Yaris has been owned by us since it was just under a year old and has had virtually no problems in all that time and has sailed through every M.O.T., however it is very low mileage, less than 36,000 miles.

My current Yaris is the only one to have any ongoing problems, one of them has been since new and I have been informed by Toyota that it is a bit of a design flaw but will not cause a serous problem. This model is a 2009 1.33 TR with the 6 speed gearbox, since i got it when it was 4 months old it 9/10 of the time struggles to get into reverse if it is parked on a slight slope, you have to take the hand brake off and roll slightly backwards and then it goes in. The advice I was given is to make sure that at every service interval the gear linkage is oiled (or greased) I can't remember which as part of it is exposed to the elements under the floorpan.

The most recent problem which developed when the car hit 70,000 miles was that it is drinking oil, neither the Toyota service centre or the local garage who now service it can find a reason why, the engine is spotless - no leaks, there is no black smoke coming out the exhaust when cold or anyother obvious symptoms.

I now have to top up roughly 1 ltr every 3 to 4,000 miles. We use Castrol Magnatec 5w30 oil and ensure we give the garage the same oil to use in the service.

I am on the forum tonight to try to find if anyone on here as a suggestion as I really do not want to have to change the car but also can't afford to have the engine blow if the problem gets any worse.

If I do change it I will more than likely get another Yaris as this one seems to just be a 'Friday car' although I will probably go back to the D4D.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think Toyota judge that heavy oil consumption is around 1 litre to every 1200 miles.

As regards the gearbox, the Honest John review has the following entry in the 'Good & Bad' section:-

"By October 2009, 1.33 6-speed models were suffering gearbox problems, possibly due to low friction oil in the boxes to get them under 121g.km CO2. Older 1.3s with 5-speed boxes also suffering selector problems."

Strangely the 1.33 Auris which, as far as I'm aware, shares the same engine/gearbox, doesn't seem to suffer gearbox issues.

[Cyker]

If it's drinking oil, you could try switching to a slightly heavier 5W40 oil and see if that helps?

[Madasafish]

1 liter per 3-4,000 miles is not drinking oil. It's sipping it through a straw...

(Son has a 1.1 Fiesta . That did drink oil 300 miles per liter...)

[Cyker]

I must admit I really have no idea how much oil a car is supposed to use during the course of the year...

Don't have anything to compare to as mine doesn't use any! :D :P

(It is looking pretty black tho'! Time for a service soon!!)

[Lustral]

mines hit 20K and it hasn't gone through any oil at all , but then again i have just had a service and the oil is golden still.

[KevinH]

My 1.4 Diesel Yaris is a '52. I bought it second hand at 20,000 miles, and have for years used fully synthetic oil. My driving is a mixture of country roads and Motorway. Apart from the usual (tyres, windscreen wipers etc.,) I have had to change the brake pads occasionally. I have ensured regular servicing has been done at the right times by my local (superb!) garage (Ubley Motors)- not that there is much to that for a diesel Yaris.

Blow me! The car got to 164,000 miles and within a few weeks firstly wanted its gearbox refurbished, then its head gasket changing-Ubley also changed the clutch and timing chain for the first time at the same time- two of the hotplugs had to be drilled out. So it looks like the limit on this version is 164k miles. Scandalous I call it- having spent all this money on it I expect it to do another 164,000 miles now!! :) (just joshing- I really like my Yaris).