Engine Revolutions At 70Mph & Parking Brake

[Berengaria]

Hi,

I'm considering buying a 2010-12 Avensis saloon 1.8 valvematic, either manual or automatic.

I'm wondering if anyone would be able to confirm how many revs the engine does at 70 miles per hour on both the manual and automatic versions of the 1.8?

Also, after 'studying' these cars for a while, I must admit that the only bugbear in the prospective package appears to be the electronic handbrake - seems a bit Heath Robinson to me (i.e. an over complicated version of something that doesn't need to be), but I'm thinking that I'll get used to it and, being a Toyota, it will be reliable.

Reading over this forum, there seems to be quite a few instances of this brake giving trouble after only a few years; costing over £1k to fix! This is threatening to put me off buying one.

With that in mind, just anyone know just how common this fault is? By that, I mean should I really be expecting this fault to happen when the car gets to after 4 / 5 years old or is the fault just with a sizeable minority of cars?

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards the handbrake, don't think there is any reliable way of estimating how widespread the issue is.

The handbrake sticking hasn't been highlighted in either the Honest John review (see http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/avensis-2009/?section=good ),

the Parkers review (see http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/toyota/avensis/saloon-2009/safety-reliability/ )

or the Which? review.

In fact Which? have rated the Avensis saloon a Best Buy.

[Heidfirst]

Is the figure that you want at an indicated 70mph or a genuine 70mph? On my 2.2 I reckon the speedo over reads about 7-8%...

In the UK the car came with a 5 year warranty after June 2010 & that is extendable with Toyota for a further 2.

Electronic handbrakes are certainly not unique to the Avensis - at least the VW Passat & Vauxhall Insignia have one as well. Ford Mondeo, Honda Accord & Mazda 6 I believe still have mechanical handbrakes.

My main gripe with it so far is where they put the switch - hidden from my view by the steering wheel ...

[FROSTYBALLS]

You can extend the Toyota warranty up to the car reaching 10 years of age (until recently was 8) - http://www.toyota.co.uk/insurance-and-warranty/extended-warranty

See Commitment & Choice in the FAQ's.

However, with the extended warranty the vehicle needs to be serviced by a Toyota dealer.

[Berengaria]

For the engine revs, it would be a genuine 70mph scenario, say cruising along a motorway on a level gradient. However, I only need to know this for the petrol 1.8 valvematic models.

Re. the handbrake, I suppose the warranty is a comfort to some extent if it's always been Toyota serviced. However, my experience with warranties and main dealers for other makes just seems to be that they try to fob people off when they see a potential warranty claim coming, so hope it would be a straightforward no-quibble situation of the worst did happen.

[Heidfirst]

Toyota seem to stand behind their warranty more than Ford, Vauxhall etc. do.

[t-spiritpete]

Is the figure that you want at an indicated 70mph or a genuine 70mph? On my 2.2 I reckon the speedo over reads about 7-8%...

In the UK the car came with a 5 year warranty after June 2010 & that is extendable with Toyota for a further 2.

Electronic handbrakes are certainly not unique to the Avensis - at least the VW Passat & Vauxhall Insignia have one as well. Ford Mondeo, Honda Accord & Mazda 6 I believe still have mechanical handbrakes.

My main gripe with it so far is where they put the switch - hidden from my view by the steering wheel ...

I reckon the speedo over reads about 7-8%... I agree with you and I may have said this before ... it also means that the recorded mileage will be wrong as well, so the miles between services are shorter (cash cow) and say a 100,000 mile warranty will actually run out a around 92-95,000 'ish miles .

Thought for the day ..... Pete.

[Heidfirst]

& everybody doing brim to brim fuel calculations rather than trust the computer but using mileage from the odometer could still be wrong ...

[Whitewagon]

Warren,

Sorry can't do an RPM check at the moment as thanks to a careless supermarket parker mine is in for some minor body repairs.

The EPB failure on the Avensis has been well documented on here and it would seem most failures have occurred well within the 5 year warranty period. Mine didn't fail as such but I thought it was noisy so mentioned it at service time. Toyota changed it without quibble. However only Toyota will know how many they have had to replace and like most forums only those with the problem will post on here. If you check forums for other manufacturers you will probably find some reported failures there too.

I must say it is my only gripe with the car, not so much that it has an EPB (though I would prefer that it didn't) but where the operating switch is fitted. It is out of comfortable reach for me and hidden by the steering wheel, not very ergonomic.

I am currently using a 2012 Passat with DSG box whilst mine is in for repair and the only thing about it that is better than the Avensis is the location of the EPB switch, its down on the centre console alongside the gearstick which is much better.

When I last researched warranties, other than Toyota, only Kia and Hyundai were offering more than a three year one. Some, such as Ford, only give a one year manufacturers warranty with any extra covered by the dealers warranty if offered. If you look at the forums for the so called prestige models, German ones in particular, you will see there are many complaints about getting repairs done under warranty. However to be fair the same applies to them as to the EPB failures on here, only those with complaints will be posting so it has to be taken into perspective.

As ever only research will throw up any likely problems with a planned purchase and even then there is no guarantee a totally different problem won't occur. If you haven't already done so I would highly recommend you take a couple of long test drives of anything on your shortlist before deciding to buy.

[Berengaria]

Thanks Mike. Yes, I totally agree - it's probably the (understandably) annoyed minority of owners who will appear on forums for vehicles voicing their experiences regarding faults like the EPB with the Avensis. As you say, it's all about perspective - there's a large number of cars on the road, so if the EPB fault affects only about 10% of them over the first 5 years, then that will still equate to a lot of vehicles.

From what you're saying, Toyota seem fairly sympathetic to rectifying this under warranty provided the car's been consistently serviced by Toyota.

As for taking a test drive, well, I'm not really at that stage yet; more just doing my homework before committing in the spring / early summer. The trouble with test drives is that it involves going through all of the sales chutzpah, which I can't be bothered with unless I'm actually going to be walking back to the showroom ready to do a deal.

I notice that you run an automatic Avensis. It's my gripe with the EPR that's leading me to consider an auto more seriously because, with an auto, you don't really ever need to use a handbrake whilst driving as the car's mostly controlled by the footbrake whilst in drive and won't roll backwards whilst creeping in traffic uphill. This is as opposed to a manual, where you'd have to keep reaching and pressing the button to activate the parking brake almost every time you stopped.

I take it that, with the CVT, manually operating the gears with the paddles on the steering wheel is optional and that, when in drive, it just runs in the same way as any other automatic?

Incidentally, I know someone who owns a 2007 Passat with an EPB activated by a switch on the dash to the right of the steering wheel. This was giving trouble recently, but it seems that for these cars it's the actual switch on the dash that causes the problems (relatively cheap fix) as opposed to the mechanism itself.

[alan333]

My 1.8 Valvematic CVT auto saloon shows just a touch over 2000 revs when speedo showing 70mph, like maybe 2030 or so.

[Whitewagon]

Warren, yes when in auto mode it acts just like a conventional auto. The paddles operate as in any other paddle shift box, I use them to hold back when descending hills, you can also use the gear lever to do the same. There is also a sport mode switch next to the gear lever which is quite useful for fast getaways or overtakes, it basically just holds the revs for longer beforE changing. The wife and I have had at least one auto between us for many years and the Avensis CVT has been the smoothest of all so far.

Having had test drives in three different Toyota dealers so far none have tried giving the hard sell and were more than happy with the fact that I just simply wanted a test drive. When I tested the New Auris Hybrid a couple of months ago they just gave me the keys after a license check and let me go.

[Berengaria]

A shade over 2000 rpm at 70mph on the auto version is impressive, which mean the car should feel quiet and the engine unstressed.

This bodes well for what the manual version would do?

[Valvematic]

some dealers invent warranty work as well !

[Seth1]

Warren - yes agree with above --- a little over 2k RPM at 70....80mph (indicated) - is still under 2500 RPM.....

I have had the car for only a few months putting 5 thousand miles on it...(its now at 14,000 miles) - silky smooth in operation, on the motorway at speed it is very refined, I would totally recommend this car to anyone!

(PS: Just buying a Petrol Rav4 Auto for the wife....)

[Berengaria]

Excellent, so it seems the automatic will be nice, relaxed and unstressed whilst cruising at 70 - 80mph on the motorway, which is what I want.

Hopefully, a 6-speed manual will behave similarly?

Because of the niggle with the EPB feature and the fact that I think it would integrate better with an auto, I'm more drawn to the auto. Also, with amount of new junctions and traffic lights appearing round here seemingly growing by the day, manual just seems a bit of a drag thesedays.

Having said that though, I would be looking for this car to see me through quite a few years of ownership, so a manual might be a better long-term proposition - I'm thinking that, as the car gets older a fancy autobox that can't really be repaired will be a potential liability if it goes wrong, whereas with manual there's only the clutch to really worry about (thankfully not a dual-mass device in the Avensis).

Any thoughts on the Multidrive S reliability then?

[Seth1]

Warren....I also have purchased this car with a view to keeping it for many years so I did some research on the CVT reliability, I believe that they will cause little trouble, I also when mine becomes 5 years old purchase extended warranty....I also think that Toyota daren't have another reliability problem like they have with the 2.2 Diesel engines etc...it would finish them....this box should have been tested to hell and back...(or am I in la la land!)

I have also gone for petrol as Diesels in my opinion have more to go wrong and they do unless you use them to do taxi mileage...

I cant stress enough that I am so happy with my CVT Valvematic...also we are picking up a Rav4 Petrol Auto from a Forum member shortly...again testament to my belief in petrol engine reliability....(Just my opinion based on looking at Posts on this forum) and indeed most car forums!

Cheers!

[Whitewagon]

As did Seth I also did lots of research on auto gearboxes before buying and found no reported problems with the Toyota CVT anywhere. This is my first Toyota and CVT so was initially a bit sceptical. Clearly they will be expensive to replace, last time I looked it was in the region of £5 to £6k, I managed to extend my warranty by a year when I bought it so will probably look to change when it expires if it can't be extended again. I believe Toyota will extend the warranty up to two years provided it has been serviced by their network and according to their specifications but check to be sure.

It is extremely relaxed at 70mph on the motorway and remains so at least up to 90.

I don't know about the later CVT models but on my 2010 model the parking brake does not auto release. I believe it does on the manual gearbox version though. I had a VW Passat with the DSG gearbox for a week recently and that had an auto release parking brake with the switch down in the centre near the gear lever, this made life so much easier though it was the only thing about the Passat that was better than the Avensis.

If I am still in the market for a car of this size in a year or two I would certainly look to buy another one.

[alan333]

the automatic will be nice, relaxed and unstressed whilst cruising at 70 - 80mph on the motorway

Hopefully, a 6-speed manual will behave similarly?

Because of the niggle with the EPB feature

Any thoughts on the Multidrive S reliability then?

The official fuel economy figures for the manaul are a tiny shade better, although I believe the road tax to be the same.

The EPB doesn't release itself when you pull away, I believe it's only on the manuals. With the auto I only use the parking brake if parking on a slope anyway.

I also poked around for info on the CVT box and found no bad reports at all, not a single one. Remember if your car is newer than a 2010 it should also have the 5 year warranty for peace of mind.

[Berengaria]

Well, just veering off-topic slightly.....

Due to my niggle with the EPB, I was kind of coming around to the idea that an automatic would suit me best, perhaps an '11' or '12' plate.

That said, I've come across a '09' plate Avensis TR 1.8 V-matic manual for sale locally at a well-established independent used car dealer specialising in nearly-new vehicles. The car is in mint condition and has extremely low mileage (less than 10k miles); one owner etc.

Because of the condition and the mileage, it's priced at top money, but still £3-4k less than a typical 1 - 2 year old facelifted example I'd been thinking about. I'm tempted to make a move on it, but am wondering about the age of the car (doesn't time fly - 2009 is 5 years ago now!), which means it will be out of warranty with Toyota. All of these cars don't exactly hold their value, which is why I'm thinking that I might as well save myself some cash and go for an older model that's seen very little road indeed.

Am I wise to take this kind of plunge - can I expect good reliability for the next few years (I do about 7k miles a year)? Current driving an '11' plate C1, so it kind of goes against the grain to go for an older car, but then again the Avensis will always be a more expensive car to buy.

[Heidfirst]

a facelift (61 plate on) TR will have a higher spec. than an 09 TR plus it will have 3 years warranty left to run (& the ability to extend that if you keep it that long).

Depends how much you value the higher spec. & the warranty.

10K on an 09 is only 2-2.5K a year which can be worse for a car than doing a higher mileage.

Iirc the EPB behaviour & location on an 09 are different to that on a facelift & I suspect that the chance of an EPB problem (& hence a £1000 bill) is higher on an earlier car.

[Whitewagon]

Clearly this comes down to personal preference and finance. The depreciation factor on the 09 car will be less than that on a 11/12 plate car, coupled with the lower initial buying cost then financially the 09 plate car is more cost effective. You have to weigh that up against the fact it is 2 to 3 years older. Despite the low mileage it doesn't mean the car has less wear and tear than a higher mileage later model. It is likely to have been used for short journeys and/or stood idle for long periods of time neither of which is good for engine wear. However the 1.8 petrol engine seems good on reliability so far. No one can give a definitive answer for you so it's down to your gut feeling really, we can all be wise after the event but it's difficult to be wise before. Happy pondering.

[Berengaria]

Thanks for all the comments. Well, having considered both options I must say that the 09 comes out the winner for me. Whilst financing a newer 11/12 car isn't a problem, as an overall package the 09 car comes out as being better value due to it's condition and low mileage - the extra £3 - 4k on the newer car seems an awful lot extra to pay for a warranty and some peace of mind about the EPB. By saving that amount, up front it would easily cover the cost of the EPB if it did go pop in the next couple of years. The additional spec of the newer cars doesn't really clinch it for me - more toys just means more stuff to go wrong in future years.

But, alas by the time I'd made my mind up the car in question has now been sold, so this isn't an issue for me to consider anymore!

What it has done though, is made me think more about the choices that I do have and what I really want. I'm prepared to go slightly older if it's a straight low mileage example (like that one was) and I'm pretty much decided now that want an automatic (this one was manual). Whilst driving at the weekend, I just imagined having to work with an imaginary dash-mounted EPB in the road situations I encountered and, frankly, I think it would have driven me mad in conjunction with a manual gearbox - the dynamics of driving an auto are much more suited to an EPB.

[Berengaria]

Quite an old thread, but can someone confirm what engine revs a 2009 onwards manual 1.8 petrol Avensis does at 70mph?

Noticed that all the previous responses appear to be for a CVT version. Thanks.

[Konrad C]

Hi Warren.

I have the answer that you wanted and never got!

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/avensis-2009/?section=road-test

The manual 1.8 Valvematic is geared at 28 mph per 1000 rpm.

That means you rev counter will at 2500 rpm at 70 mph.

That is quite good as most normally asperated petrol would be at upper 2000 to mid 3000. Average rpm will be 3000, even for six speed.

Those who understand, will know the engine torque and gearbox have to be matched. Diesels have double the torque at lower rpm, compared to petrols. Large capacity petrols and some turbos can have long gearing due to the high torque they generate.

My old Avensis is 3000 rpm at 70 mph and the same for the all 1.8 petrol mk1 and mk2 which are all 5 speed.

It seems that more owners like the CVT version, so could not speak regarding the manual version.

Konrad