Another Recall

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I suppose it depends exactly what was said by both parties and the context.

If CS rep was told that the owner was concerned and they were kicking off, then perhaps they may have suggested not taking long journeys if they weren't comfortable with it until the car was fixed.

Big difference between that and being told not to drive.

But I'm speculating. I wasn't there but equally we only have the members word too.

Personally, I think Toyota err on the side of caution regarding recalls compared to other companies that just have 'service bulletins'. I think Toyota copy what they do in America where they can be a little more excitable, rather than most European manufacturers who try to sweep any faults under the carpet.

Infact, when I worked for an insurance company there was a certain French car manufacturer whose popular model had a tendency for the bonnet to fly open without warning. This was well known in the industry but I never recalled any action being taken by the manufacturer. I recall it appearing on Watchdog and still denying it.

Also, there are only 11 reported incidents of the Prius failure in Europe and I think mine might have been one of them. I'd been driving enthusiastically (not hard, just faster than normal) on my 20 mile commute whilst in Power mode. I went down a long decent braking hard for a roundabout at the bottom. I then accelerated hard to overtake a HGV. I was half way past when pop and the inverter failed and the car limped to the roadside on electric.

I understood the part was sent to Toyota HQ. The inverter was also replaced outside warranty. Safety issue? I think so. Dangerous issue? No, especially not compared to many other cars out there like those French cars ;)

[Parts-King]

I called Toyota UK today, as was told that until the new software is fitted I should not drive my car for long distances. I will be seeking compensation as a car I canot drive i useless.

That is NOT the case. If the car did go into limp mode, then you would have reduced power and you would not be able to drive long distances

Your letter will be sent out as soon as possible, until such time, I suggest you use your car in the normal manner

Kingo

[terryparrott]

I am afraid that everyone is under estimating the potential danger here. I agree if I am in a 30 mph limit and the car grinds to a halt or goes slowly, it is unlikley to be dangerous. But Imagine the same happening if one is in the over-taking lane on the motorway travelling at 70 mph and the car goes into "limp mode" or looses power?

Before issuing the recall Toyota should have got all their information ready such as when the software upgrade can start etc. It was obvious that customers world wide would be on the phone to their dealer asking such questions.

As to testing in this modern world accelerated life cycle testing is the norm, and it should have thrown up this issue. When I had the Sat Nav issue, Toyota after weeks finally admitted that they loaded the wrong software onto their web site, thus proving that having loaded it no one actually went out and tested it. The customer was left to test it on Toyotas behalf.

Whilst my local dealer does have great coffee it will be another 1-2 hours wasted whilst the upgrade takes place. I buy a new car every three years because I want relaibility, but my Prius has been nothing but trouble from the start. Before this car I had a Skoda Octavia, no realls, no failures and no breakdowns over 3 years, can Toyota match that? No is the simple answer.

[Devon Aygo]

"Before issuing the recall Toyota should have got all their information ready such as when the software upgrade can start etc. It was obvious that customers world wide would be on the phone to their dealer asking such questions"

Toyota choose to inform their customers about a recall as soon as VOSA allow them to, many manufacturers don't. Surely it is better to be as well informed as possible, rather than the issue being kept from you until the repairs can be completed?

Toyota believe that honesty is these instances is the best option and the vast majority of their customer agree with them

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I Before this car I had a Skoda Octavia, no realls, no failures and no breakdowns over 3 years, can Toyota match that? No is the simple answer.

I hate to say that this is a case of rose tinted spectacles. Every car has been recalled at some time. And just to prove, here is a list from the AA of recalls on the Octavia over the last 10 years - all 10 recalls!

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/recalls/recalls.jsp?&makeName=Skoda&modelID=Octavia&modelName=Octavia&makeId=E2&lowIndex=0

Make note of recall number 2 from 2006, number 3 from 2008/9, recall 9 from 2002 and recall 10 from 2003.

And to add balance here is the link to the recalls for the Prius from 2001 to date (exc the latest recall), all 5 of them.

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/recalls/recalls.jsp?modelID=Prius&modelName=Prius&makeName=Toyota&makeId=E6

So it appears that Toyota doesn't have the monopoly on recalls. You're upset that there's a recall and it may be inconvenient, but it appears you'd have been just as inconvenienced with an Octavia or you just happened to be lucky.

And I am not blinkered to a love for the Prius. It is well documented that I have not been happy with it, but appreciate I got a Friday afternoon early one. But I do like to see proof or evidence to back up claims. You haven't had a recall with the Octavia, but it appears that officially that model has been recalled, many times.

[terryparrott]

I notice that the statistics for Skoda recall are all pre-2009 so nothing in the past 5 years, yet Prius has 3 recalls (4 with the recent one) all since 2009, so statically Skoda is getting better and Toyota Prius is getting worse. I rest my case mi-lord.

[Devon Aygo]

I notice that the statistics for Skoda recall are all pre-2009 so nothing in the past 5 years, yet Prius has 3 recalls (4 with the recent one) all since 2009, so statically Skoda is getting better and Toyota Prius is getting worse. I rest my case mi-lord.

Actually 2011 Octavia's where leaking fuel see # 4 and none of the Prius recalls affected 2009 on Mk3 Prius.

I don't recall the all mighty Skoda announcing their recall so owners could make informed decisions about the cars they owned before they where repaired.

[Duffryn]

Between us the wife and I have owned 9 Toyotas since 1987 - this will be my first recall (assuming it affects my car).

[Duffryn]

Between us the wife and I have owned 9 Toyotas since 1987 - this will be my first recall (assuming it affects my car).

Sorry - make that 10, mathematics was never my strong point!

[johalareewi]

But Imagine the same happening if one is in the over-taking lane on the motorway travelling at 70 mph and the car goes into "limp mode" or looses power?

Done that in a Mondeo with a dodgy fuel gauge.

Said there was quarter of a tank of fuel but at 70mph ;), outside lane, in the wet, overtaking lorries, the fuel ran out. No limp mode in a Mondeo.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I notice that the statistics for Skoda recall are all pre-2009 so nothing in the past 5 years, yet Prius has 3 recalls (4 with the recent one) all since 2009, so statically Skoda is getting better and Toyota Prius is getting worse. I rest my case mi-lord.

You'll notice that none of the recalls after 2009 have been noted. What I was showing was that the Octavia has had recalls just like the Prius. I recall your earlier post said it had never been recalled.

I have driven many cars and they all get recalled. But it's a free world. You're welcome to stick with Skoda. Different car for different choices in life. Personally if I was in the taxi job still I'd have traded the Prius in for the new Octavia. Much more value for money. The Prius was £18.5k when I bought it and is just shy of £22k now. That's too much for what it is. The Skoda starts under £17k or £5k under the Prius. That buys a lot of fuel. It's easier to service - any old garage can do it. No weird push button starting or expensive oils or odd braking systems. Much easier diy.

To me, Toyota are going too 'French' in their styling and even electrical reliability. All the reasons to buy Japanese are being eroded in favour of sales in France and Europe. The latest issues with the Auris HSD show this. I think Toyota need to be careful.

[terryparrott]

With regard to the safety element, from the Toyota Press Release "The software's current settings could result in higher thermal stress in certain transistors, potentially causing them to become damaged. If this happens, various warning lights will illuminate and the vehicle can enter a failsafe mode. In rare circumstances, the hybrid system might shut down while the vehicle is being driven, resulting in the loss of power and the vehicle coming to a stop"

Great fun at 70 MPH on the motorway! This is a very serious issue that is being drastically down played by Toyota.

[Raistlin]

Great fun at 70 MPH on the motorway! This is a very serious issue that is being drastically down played by Toyota.

And played up by you, do you have any evidence that this has already happened ?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

It's happened 11 times in Europe over nearly 5 years of model sales.

Hardly a concern.

(think mine was one of them)

[orangezorki]

Tricky one, this.

One one hand, my first car was a Corolla, and at 2.5 years it went clonk when you turned left (or possibly right - it's at least 5 years ago now). Dealer (in retrospect) was very good but never fixed it, so got rid before the warranty was up. Didn't think I would ever buy another Toyota, as there is always another option that does roughly the same job. Now the aftermath of the unintended acceleration debacle has fully hit (sided with Toyota on that one), Toyota have become very anxious to be as open as possible with any possible defect. This has led to the 5 year warranty, and a recall on anything worse than a sticky volume dial. In turn, years too late for me, a recall was put out for the steering column on my Corolla. But the overall effect is that there is now a very fuel efficient car (Yaris Hybrid) with a 5 year warranty backed by a company that will actually tell you if there is rare problem, and sort it out for free. Suddenly my 'never' turned into a situation where only a Toyota fitted all my criteria for a new car.

On the other hand, there is a risk that all this positive action will cause negative publicity...

David

[FROSTYBALLS]

Details of two Skoda Octavia recalls since 2009 - http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp

One involves loss of drive which could be quite disconcerting if it happened at speed

[terryparrott]

You see the deveil is in the detail The Skoda recall to which you refer only impacted 494 cars. This Prius recall impacts 1.9 million cars, so the risk factor is mega times greater. I called my dealer this afternoon, and they still have no idea when the new software will arrive. Very poor management of a recall y Toyota.

[FROSTYBALLS]

VAG have got some large recalls to work through - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507401/Volkswagen-recall-cars-worldwide-faulty-gearbox-light-fuses.html

Faulty gear boxes, fuel leaks and headlights suddenly cutting out (not fun at night).

[Dancing Badger]

Leaving aside for a moment the comparative level of customer service between Toyota and other manufacturers, the notion that this potential for losing power during a high speed overtake is a significant safety issue really is a serious overstatement. I worked as an AA Patrol in the late 1970s into the 1980s. I spent around two thirds of my working life on the motorways around Greater Manchester - my normal "patch" was the M62 from the Yorkshire border as far as and including the Worsley Braided Interchange (the M60/M61/A580 junction). This was, even then, a busy motorway, particularly in the peaks, the speed limit was the same as it is now and most people drove at 70 mph (or more) and cars were considerably less reliable then a modern Toyota, a modern Skoda, or a modern anything you care to mention.

I reckoned to attend around 8 breakdowns a day. In some cases the driver would have had some indication that their car was faulty, but in many cases their vehicle just cut out and lost power suddenly and completely. I never, ever, attended a broken down vehicle that hadn't been able to safely get to the hard shoulder, and during my time in the AA, I never heard of any of my colleagues attending a broken down vehicle that hadn't been able to safely get to the hard shoulder. For that matter I've broken down a few times myself, driving round as I was in those days in 4 or 5 year old (at least) Cortinas and Hillman Hunters and suchlike, and never had a problem. I don't doubt that it wasn't fun, as it was put earlier, and I'm sure it gave a few people a scare, but nobody got hurt, nobody had an accident. All that doesn't mean it has never happened, but I think it suggests it doesn't happen very often.

Is this fault on the Prius potentially dangerous? Of course it is, you could have an accident as a result. However what is relevant is the likelihood of having an accident. As far as I recall you'd need to look at the odds of the car actually losing power as a result of this fault, and multiply that by the odds of actually having an accident if your car does lose power. I can't do the calculation as I don't know the odds, but I'm going to assert, based on nothing more than (extensive) personal experience of broken down vehicles on motorways, and Grumpy's report of only 11 failures in Europe, that those odds are really quite long. If in the light of that anybody thinks it's a serious danger than that's a view they can take, l know people who are scared of flying, which is statistically very safe, and yet smoke, which really isn't. All I will say is this - I have an 09 Gen 3, I use it on the motorway, and I'm not losing any sleep over this. When I get my letter, I'll book it in and get the job done, if it breaks down in the meantime I'll call out the AA and Toyota can deal with it.

[Parts-King]

. I called my dealer this afternoon, and they still have no idea when the new software will arrive. Very poor management of a recall y Toyota.

Not really, more like a poor answer from your dealer

It takes time for a campaign to be put together. Toyota inform VOSA of a safety issue, VOSA request the driver details from DVLA based on the chassis number range. WHEN everything is in place, letters are sent out to inform you. Letters are phased out, otherwise you have thousands of people wanting to come in on day one, obviously that cannot happen for logistical reasons.

What your dealer should have said is, when everything is in place, you will be advised by letter, then you can book it in at a time to suit you and the dealer

Kingo

[beachlife]

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Toyota-Derbyshire-built-Auris-hybrid-recall/story-20612036-detail/story.html

This report confirms that the Auris hybrid is not involved in the recall.

[Parts-King]

Correct, it has only ever been Prius, it does not affect any other Hybrid

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Correct, it has only ever been Prius, it does not affect any other Hybrid

But the press has only ever said it's the Prius that's being recalled. Not the Prius plug in, not the Prius+ or the Auris or Yaris, but the Prius.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/toyota/10632703/Toyota-recalls-every-third-generation-Prius-over-software-glitch.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26148711

http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/12/hybrid-software-defect-causes-toyota-prius-recall/

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2014/02/toyota-recalls-30790-uk-prius-hybrids-354786/

Toyotas website also has a great little tool for checking if your needs recall work. Just enter your reg, click a few boxes and job done.

[beachlife]

Correct, it has only ever been Prius, it does not affect any other Hybrid

But the press has only ever said it's the Prius that's being recalled. Not the Prius plug in, not the Prius+ or the Auris or Yaris, but the Prius.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/toyota/10632703/Toyota-recalls-every-third-generation-Prius-over-software-glitch.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26148711

http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/12/hybrid-software-defect-causes-toyota-prius-recall/

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2014/02/toyota-recalls-30790-uk-prius-hybrids-354786/

Toyotas website also has a great little tool for checking if your needs recall work. Just enter your reg, click a few boxes and job done.

The links you gave mention the Prius however as the Auris has a similar platform to the Prius as an owner of a Auris I was concerned that no where could I see a definitive report saying the the Auris HSD would not be included in the recall. Journalists knowledge of hybrids is not that great so expecting them to be 100% factually correct is like believing in the tooth fairy as you get older. The link I gave was the first and only report that specifically mentions the Auris hybrid that I have seen.

I know about the tool on the Toyota website however I also know that the time delay between the press release and the website being updated to inform us of a recall will always lag behind the press release. I know the link I gave put my mind at ease and hopefully some other Auris hybrid owners

[Parts-King]

This is one of the problems with the press, they make assumptions that are not based on fact. The Prius is a hybrid therefore all hybrids are affected, WRONG!

For the word "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak, see the Toyota press release. That is the ONLY one that is correct and matters

http://media.toyota.co.uk/2014/02/toyota-recalls-prius-models-correct-potential-boost-converter-software-issue/

Kingo