Honest John Road Test Of Verso 1.6 D-4D (Bmw Engine)

[FROSTYBALLS]

See: - http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/toyota/toyota-verso-16-d-4d-2014-road-test/

[Peterkin]

Depressing that Toyota continue to downrate the engines they fit to Versos. Sticking with my 140PS D4D and would be most unlikely to buy one of these.

[Devon Aygo]

Toyota and other manufacturers have little choice it is only giving customers what they demand cleaner, more fuel efficient and lower road taxes. the 2.2 140 engine in your car was great for its time but it is far too dirty ( co2 and NOx ) in today's market place.

Toyota offered the bigger 2.2 in the UK but the vast majority of customers choose the 2.0 and then moved onto other manufacturers with their even smaller engined cars when launched, Toyota can only follow suit .

[FROSTYBALLS]

I thought the agreement between Toyota and BMW involved the use of two diesel engines - a 1.6 and a 2.0 litre. See the following BBC News article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15980436

[Devon Aygo]

I thought the agreement between Toyota and BMW involved the use of two diesel engines - a 1.6 and a 2.0 litre. See the following BBC News article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15980436

I believe it does but at the moment Toyota are only talking about the 1.6 versions, we can only speculate about the 2.0 but perhaps in the UK at least we may never get the option as we don't but enough diesels ( the continent still get NG Auris 2.0d4d, Verso and Avensis 2.0, 2.2 150 & 180bhp d4d ) as well as the new 1.6 BMW option, we just don't buy enough as our tax system doesn't support diesels like they do on the continent . What I would love to see is the Yaris with the 1.6 engine but I reckon that is wishfull thinking

Perhaps NG Avensis will have the 2.0 BMW engine as it is Toyota' UK flagship saloon , I do know that the deal with BMW didn't extend to Lexus as obviously BMW didn't want to give Lexus a competitive diesel and Lexus are dead set on going virtually all hybrid except the F models.

[SunilK]

If only Toyota developed a decent, economical automatic diesel engine. Surely cannot be that hard? I have a CVT Verso (09). It is amazingly smooth, only wish it was more economical. Currently returns 36/37 MPG. Not bad given the size of the car.

[Parts-King]

It is not a case of what is hard to develop, it is about reducing carbon emissions to meet targets, diesels in their current format do not do this, for Toyota, Hybrid is the way forward, with limited numbers of diesel varients

I currently run a new Auris Tourer with the 1.4 diesel, I have to say it is superb, you would never know it is a 1.4, it drives like an older generation 2.0

I was away last weekend and averaged 58 MPG, that drops to 55 ish for my daily commute

Kingo

[SunilK]

Is that an automatic?

My father has a Prius (08), very good locally, but on the motorway it is strained, noisy & the MPG drops.

[Parts-King]

1.4 maual

The power it produces is superb

Kingo

[SunilK]

Still think Toyota has missed a trick with diesel automatics. BMW & VW have cornered this market for sure.

[Parts-King]

Still think Toyota has missed a trick with diesel automatics. BMW & VW have cornered this market for sure.

Just like Toyota have cornered the market for automatic Hybrids, horses for courses, maybe Toyota are happy to let BMW and VAG have the auto diesel market? They are made around the world, perhaps it does not suit the market as much as you think it does?

[SunilK]

True I guess, I am looking at it from a purely selfish perspective.

[Parts-King]

I am with you, I love a torquey diesel and automatic, I guess it is not a Toyota priority?

[Peterkin]

Hybrids are OK, I guess - I've driven an Auris hybrid and didn't dislike it - but I'm not all that fond of CVT gearboxes. They throw the expected relationship between pedal pressure, engine revs and road speed completely out of kilter.

[Standard Dude]

I don't know much about BMW diesel engines but the figures here look impressive for the 2.0:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/bmw/3-series/saloon-2012/53622

That's in a BMW 320d eco-wotsitsname which is lighter than a Verso but 68 MPG and 160 BHP sound like an major accomplishment! Obviously the more horses you summon the lower the MPG drops but I like the really idea of having an engine that is equally able to hypermile and at other times impress your passengers. Perhaps I'm bi-modal?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Extract from today's Auto Express:

'Toyota's vice president for European R&D, Tetsuji Sano, has revealed that a deal is in place for the adoption of "a family of diesel engines", all sourced from BMW. The 1.6 litre BMW engine fitted to the new Verso will also power a range of Toyota models. The deal will see 2.0 litre engines adopted too, with platforms developed for these units ready for production.'

[Heidfirst]

do we know if Toyota are assembling/building these themselves or are buying them in prebuilt by BMW?

[Parts-King]

Don't know for certain, it would make sense for Toyota to assemble them, I will investigate

EDIT

Cannot find anything on the Toyota system but Honest John says it's made by BMW in Austria

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/new-cars/2013-12/toyota-verso-to-get-bmw-diesel-engine/

Edited February 20, 2014 by Parts-King

[Cyker]

Well !Removed! basically hate diesels - The only reason they exist is for the european market; You can't even buy the diesel versions of most of their cars in japan or america!

They love smooth high-revving engines and while they have somehow managed to make the D4D high revving, it just makes more sense for them to outsource it to the germans (Who love diesel engines!) and do a tech swap with hybrid tech. Esp. since they can just concentrate on hybrid tech and not worry so much about the increasingly energy-wasting restrictions for ICE engines.

Automatics are a bit trickier for diesel; Friction systems like CVTs get chewed up by the torque so you're left with the hated MMT, the scarily expensive DSG or the inefficient torque converter. It's a shame they haven't thought of using auto-box from the GT86 - It's a torque converter with shaft locks! The robustness of a torque-converter without the pumping losses! Genius!

Does anyone have specs and power/torque curves for the new BMW engine? Be interesting to see how it does reliability-wise too. Hopefully it still has the Toyota variable turbo and not whatever one that has given BMW a rep for unreliable turbos

[FROSTYBALLS]

It is the same 1.6 diesel used in the Mini.

[Cyker]

I thought the Mini used the 1.4 D4D!

[FROSTYBALLS]

The 2003-2007 Mini D used the D4D from the Yaris. The Mini D from 2007 uses the BMW 1.6 diesel.

[Cyker]

Ah. Didn't realize they changed it!

Your cross-marque knowledge is most impressive oh frosty one! :D

[FROSTYBALLS]

Interestingly the new Mini that is due to go on sale later this year, will have two new modular engines - a 1.5 litre 3 cylinder petrol and a 1.5 lire 3 cylinder diesel (114 bhp) made at Hams Hall Birmingham.

[Parts-King]

This might tell you all

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-verso-gerald-killman-interview

Or this one

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/2014-verso-gains-efficient-new-diesel-engine-and-trend-grade