Rav 4.3 White Smoke At Idle

[PumaWestie]

Got lots of white smoke at hot idle. Don't think its head gasket as doesn't overheat or lose coolant. Could this be the DPF blocked? What's best to do? Have read about DPF removal. Is this something that folk on here have had done?

Thanks

[gjnorthall]

Presumably your Rav isn't a D-Cat and the problem occurs consistently at idle with the engine hot? If the plume smells oily and possibly tinged blue - it could well be turbo seal failure. Head gasket failure doesn't give as dramatic a plume and it smells of antifreeze - as you point out, theres usually other symptoms.

[PumaWestie]

Hi, it doesn't smell oily but does occur consistently at idle. I'm suspicious of the DPF filter but haven't found where it is yet. Is it the bulged section in the exhaust similar to where a cat would be?

Thanks John

[gjnorthall]

Is your Rav a D-Cat model or a straight D4D? The D-Cat has a 5th fuel injector located in the exhaust system - this is used to clean the DPF from time to time. Under certain circumstances, this can result in an exhaust plume. The D4D doesn't have a DPF hence if your car isn't a D-Cat.......we can immediately discount a DPF issue!

[PumaWestie]

Thanks for replying. Actually I am unsure. Is there an easy way to tell? Its a 2006 2.2 diesel with supposedly 136 bhp engine. Engine cover just says D4D and I haven't seen the D CAT logo anywhere

[bigend]

It isnt a D-cat if it,s only 136bhp, same as mine, White smoke is water vapour, how many mile are you doing, give it a good run to dry out the exhaust and if it.s still doing it it's getting water into the combustion chambers somewhere.

Keith

[gjnorthall]

The D-Cat is badged as such, so we can safely say that your issue isn't DPF related. Whilst turbo seals are a very likely cause of the plume - you cannot completely disregard the head gasket as a possible cause. It's sometimes difficult to establish if coolant is being consumed - the amount can be quite small and might not show up in the short term.

[PumaWestie]

OK - thanks guys.

[PumaWestie]

Actually. Surely if the turbo seals were leaking the smoke would be different to white? My understanding is that white is unburnt fuel hence my original suspicion of the DPF and its 5th injector not being all it should but if my vehicle doesn't have a DPF I'm stumped as to what it could be. I'm still certain its not head gasket.

So, what else could it be? Faulty injectors? Are they a !Removed! to remove for testing?

[Red Yaris 54]

Actually. Surely if the turbo seals were leaking the smoke would be different to white? My understanding is that white is unburnt fuel hence my original suspicion of the DPF and its 5th injector not being all it should but if my vehicle doesn't have a DPF I'm stumped as to what it could be. I'm still certain its not head gasket.

So, what else could it be? Faulty injectors? Are they a bitch to remove for testing?

It could be that a new Pope has been elected ;).............but more probably the turbo seals :)

[Raistlin]

White smoke is water so you might have a head gasket going bad, get a compression test and a leakdown test done

It may also be a turbo seal, I have read a lot about people having white smoke at start up and at idle and it was the cause.

[gjnorthall]

Yes - the plume is white with passing turbo seals - it's sometimes hard to tell, but the plume often has a blue tinge. The condition produces a copious plume - much worse than a steamy exhaust on a cold morning. As previously noted - a failed head gasket should still be in the list of suspects but other things such as faulty injectors would be highly unlikely.

[Mike169]

Can we all ask what sort of driving you do, is it local school run type of stuff, long journeys, a mix of the two?

[PumaWestie]

Hmmm - only had the car 2-3 months but generally do a mixture of short and long trips. Its my wifes car but I add the long trips as I know how bad the short trips are for it. It had the turbo replaced when we bought it and drives significantly better than it did previously which was clouds of black smoke. Have also cleaned and blanked off the EGR which gave a huge improvemnet overall.

Its just this white smoke. Its very slight at all times when car is idling - both cold and warm engine which smells like diesel. However, if you leave the car idling for a long period, and then try to drive off it looks like Hiroshima in the rear view mirror

There is also a strange random (not that often) vibrating sort of misfire feeling when driving along which you could mistake for a poor road surface except that it isnt. I only mention this in case it is related.

There are no warning lights on the dash either

[gjnorthall]

Your further description would tend to favour a turbo seal issue. Essentially a turbo can leak oil into the induction side or the exhaust gas side. If it's the exhaust gas side - the oil vaporises and produces a white plume - depending on the oil used - some will burn giving a blue tinge to the plume. With the engine idling - theres insufficient gas velocity to entrain the oil so it collects - when you rev the engine, the oil is entrained resulting in a billowing cloud. The fact that the turbo has been replaced a couple of months ago raises some suspicion. Repaired / reconditioned / refurbished turbos vary enormously in quality. In the first instance, I'd have a conversation with the turbo suppliers / installers.

[PumaWestie]

Well i actually took it and had the injectors tested yesterday by a diesel specialist and I apparently have 2 that are less than perfect which are likley to be the cause. I now have to try and find cost effective replacements as Toyota want £406 + vat each

Anyone got any leads on where I can get some suitable ones at a reasonable price?

[Awebb180]

Was going to say this sounds like injectors failing. Are yours the ones that can be replaced singularly or as the complete set? Either way they will also need coding to the car.

Alex

[PumaWestie]

Hi, They can be replaced individually but need to have serial numbers that match the rest I believe. Mine are 23670-0R020

[gjnorthall]

Injectors can be ultrasonically cleaned, refurbished and calibrated at a fraction of new cost. It's important to clean and calibrate the 4 injectors to prevent imbalance. Unlike some other manufacturers, theres no need to recode new / refurbished injectors.

[Mike169]

Personally i would take all the injectors out, take them to your local diesel injector refurbishing place, just search for them online and see what they say to which direction you go next.

If you are not a 'nuts and bolts person' lets your local place do the removal and refitting as no doubt you will need new resealing washers unless things have moved on so much which i highly doubt.

A phone chat with your local refurbishing factory/unit should be able to steer you in the right direction and about getting the injectors coded if it is necessary or not and my gut feeling is save you a lot of money as the prices you have quoted seems more than excessive to get this job done.

Regards Mike169

[kencat]

The compensation codes r on the top off the injector ! , thay r entered using the Toyota computer thing ! There r Modified injectors the old 1s had 1 dot on the top the new 1s got two ! Try and find a denco Diesel stockest or dealer May be ?

[PumaWestie]

Well 2 refurbed injectors later and the car is transformed. No white smoke and a big improvement in grunt. Top marks to Bob Beck Diesels in Leamington Spa who have all the suitable test gear for anything diesel related plus the know how

[Mike169]

Good to hear of your positive result and good of you to let us know how the job went.

May 'we' ask how much the repair bill was, just curious at today's costs on these sort of jobs?

Regards Mike169

[PumaWestie]

£560. Bob doesn't charge VAT either

[Mike169]

Obviously £560.00 is a lot of money but is it got the car sorted out then it is money well spent. I feel you should find you do better mpg as well so hopefully given enough time you might recoup your money if you do enough miles..............incidently i am impressed with your technician, 'he' certainly seems to know his stuff.