Oh Damn It Blast It!

[Wiz201]

My Yaris that has had the engine management warning light on before and I thought it was fixed last month has come back on again!

My situation is that I'm three weeks away from picking up the new Aygo, just today I got the number plate reg and a pick up date.

What do I do chaps? I don't want to spend money on it seeing what code its throwing up now. Can the dealers go back on the deal at this late stage if they find the car not in the same 'condition' as they saw it before? The car is acting as normal as it was when it was fixed a month ago.

[t-spiritpete]

Try this trick now OR (just before you part ex the car) disconnect the Battery Negative terminal - for a few minutes and that should clear the code for a short while and hopefully long enough for you to drive away in your nice new car :-)

Pete.

[Wiz201]

Um, I could see if my step dad's mate will do that. I'm not confident enough to mess about with anything apart from windscreen wash top up lol.

[Wiz201]

I could pretend it wasn't there beforehand and just play dumb if they ask any questions?

[Mike169]

Hi Pete, hope you are ok friend but i would just like to add an extra to your comment and of course this is aimed at Isobel.

Yes disconnect the Battery but disconnect both terminals and rub the positive and negative together, the residual electrical current in the circuit will do the trick, possibly, so rub the 2 leads together for say 20 seconds then reconnect, the red one, positive first then the black one, the negative and see what happens....this resets the main computer in the car and if you are lucky it will make the light go out, good luck.

Regards Mike169

[Wiz201]

Well if its an agreed price and signed sale of contract, they shouldn't go back on the deal should they? I'm glad in a way its put the light back on, makes getting a new car an even better idea. At least someone else can deal with it now.

[Devon Aygo]

Well if its an agreed price and signed sale of contract, they shouldn't go back on the deal should they? I'm glad in a way its put the light back on, makes getting a new car an even better idea. At least someone else can deal with it now.

Yes the dealer can alter the contract as the car is no longer as first assessed the same would apply if you had an accident etc before handing the car over, the deal isn't actually complete until they have your keys and you your new ones.

However if the light was to come on after you've given them the keys there is very little they could do !!

[MikeSh]

Yes the dealer can alter the contract as the car is no longer as first assessed the same would apply if you had an accident etc before handing the car over, the deal isn't actually complete until they have your keys and you your new ones.

The result will be the same(ish) but no, the dealer can't alter the contract - nor can you (Isobel). However there will certainly be small print to cover this sort of situation and you need to take your copy of the contract and look through it before you decide how to proceed and definitely before collection day. Just turning up on the day and pretending you don't understand could prove costly - car dealers have way more experience at wiggle than we do :)

[Mike169]

When disconnecting or reconnecting a car Battery the black (Earth) lead is always the first to come off and the last to go on. This is because the other end is already connected to the engine/bodywork so if you accidently touch the other end of your spanner to any other metal on the car then is won't make a big flash as it is already connected to it, the only place you must not touch with the other end of the spanner is the other (Positive) Battery terminal as this will cause a big bang, and is pretty hard to do anyway. If you disconnect the red (Positive) lead first and reconnect last and accidently touch the other end onto any other metal parts of the car it will form a circuit to the still connected black (Negative) lead and cause a big flash so the absolute rule is black leak off first and last to refit and rule applies to all cars for whenever you are disconnecting or reconnecting the Battery.

Copied from another site on the internet, there are many that say the same. Red one is Positive. Connect to + Battery terminal.

Black one is Negative (aka "earth" or "ground"). Connect to - Battery terminal.
Always disconnect the Negative first, and connect it last.
So to address your question directly, connect the Red first, then the Black.

The reason is that if your wrench touches the metal body of the car at the same time as you are wrenching on the Positive terminal, and the Negative is hooked up, you will have a short circuit. Sparks will fly. Wrench will get too hot to touch. Wiring in car may melt, or even start a small fire. If the wrench touches metal while wrenching the Negative, it's not a problem.

btw, the term "earth" is often used instead of "ground" by people in England. If an American used that term it might be considered tacky. Or more likely pretentious. LOL

Source:

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[t-spiritpete]

Correct Mike,

the negative should always come off first for the reasons you stated especially if you have not done stuff like this before, it's a fail safe method. I have and use insulated spanners for batteries (having been involved with industrial batteries) but you still need to be careful.

Pete.

[Wiz201]

Well I'm waiting for a call back from Mr T to see if they'll scan the ECU again for free since its only a month since they and I assumed it was fixed.

[Mike169]

My local Toyota dealer is very strong on customer satisfaction.

I feel if you have paid for your car to be mended and whatever they did first time hasn't worked then i would expect them to either refund your first invoice or do it a second time free of charge assuming they say it is the same fault and not an unrelated matter.

What i am saying is that it is possible something different may of gone wrong on your car and in a way you will have to trust them in what they tell you, so depending on what they find would depend on whether you get charged again or not.

If the second invoice is greater than the first one i would expect the first one to be deducted from the second, I wish you luck!

Mike169

[Wiz201]

Fortunately my local one is very good on aftercare and servicing. They have just rang back and I'm going to take it in on Monday to get it looked at. We paid £330 last time for them to locate a loose wire that we thought had fixed it. If its less than £300 I may just ask the sales exec whose selling me the deal what he thinks he'll do with the car as I'm not interested in fixing it now.

[Mike169]

Isobel, can i ask how long you have owned this car and did you buy it from the dealership that is fixing it? Mike169

[Parts-King]

The dealer (and you) signed the contract, he is buying your car in the condition he saw it on the day, and in return he agrees to sell you a new one at a specific price. You expect to get the car you bought.......so does the dealer. The removal of tools / accessories / handbooks (and all the other things customers remove) is breaking the contract and the dealer could say you are not honoring your side of the contract HOWEVER that is most unlikely to happen, you are in a strong position where you only paid for work to be done a month ago. See what happens when you go in, tell them the story, you have bought another car off them, so are not going to pay to fix it again, I'm sure there will be an amicable solution without having to fall out with them

[Wiz201]

Isobel, can i ask how long you have owned this car and did you buy it from the dealership that is fixing it? Mike169

No I didn't buy it from Toyota. I got this car when it was three years old from a small automatic dealer near Huddersfield, it had just been delivered from a leasing company that leased cars to disabled people. It had only done 14k miles in three years with the disabled owner. I've had it two years now.

[Wiz201]

The dealer (and you) signed the contract, he is buying your car in the condition he saw it on the day, and in return he agrees to sell you a new one at a specific price. You expect to get the car you bought.......so does the dealer. The removal of tools / accessories / handbooks (and all the other things customers remove) is breaking the contract and the dealer could say you are not honoring your side of the contract HOWEVER that is most unlikely to happen, you are in a strong position where you only paid for work to be done a month ago. See what happens when you go in, tell them the story, you have bought another car off them, so are not going to pay to fix it again, I'm sure there will be an amicable solution without resorting to having to fall out with them

Not planning to fall out with them lol. I'm hoping the dealer may appreciate my honesty and come up with a solution we're both happy with. The car is still driving normally so I'm not sure what the issue is this time.

[Phil01]

When disconnecting or reconnecting a car battery the black (Earth) lead is always the first to come off and the last to go on. This is because the other end is already connected to the engine/bodywork so if you accidently touch the other end of your spanner to any other metal on the car then is won't make a big flash as it is already connected to it, the only place you must not touch with the other end of the spanner is the other (Positive) battery terminal as this will cause a big bang, and is pretty hard to do anyway. If you disconnect the red (Positive) lead first and reconnect last and accidently touch the other end onto any other metal parts of the car it will form a circuit to the still connected black (Negative) lead and cause a big flash so the absolute rule is black leak off first and last to refit and rule applies to all cars for whenever you are disconnecting or reconnecting the battery.

Copied from another site on the internet, there are many that say the same. Red one is Positive. Connect to + Battery terminal.

Black one is Negative (aka "earth" or "ground"). Connect to - Battery terminal.

Always disconnect the Negative first, and connect it last.

So to address your question directly, connect the Red first, then the Black.

The reason is that if your wrench touches the metal body of the car at the same time as you are wrenching on the Positive terminal, and the Negative is hooked up, you will have a short circuit. Sparks will fly. Wrench will get too hot to touch. Wiring in car may melt, or even start a small fire. If the wrench touches metal while wrenching the Negative, it's not a problem.

btw, the term "earth" is often used instead of "ground" by people in England. If an American used that term it might be considered tacky. Or more likely pretentious. LOLSource:

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Earth on last is not the case anymore with new cars

Positive last is what is recommended nowadays

[Red Yaris 54]

Earth on last is not the case anymore with new cars Positive last is what is recommended nowadays

Not so sure about that.......Where did you get that information from?

In my opinion what you state is not a safe practice.......please provide evidence to support your statement

[Raistlin]

Disconnect the negative terminal first and reconnect the positive terminal first.

[Mike169]

Hi Red Yaris 54, i take it your question is aimed at Philo1 even though i cannot see his post but only where it is tagged on the bottom of a post i left earlier?

Regards Mike169

[Raistlin]

Hi Red Yaris 54, i take it your question is aimed at Philo1 even though i cannot see his post but only where it is tagged on the bottom of a post i left earlier?

Regards Mike169

It's here:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/156581-oh-damn-it-blast-it/?p=1318554

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi Red Yaris 54, i take it your question is aimed at Philo1 even though i cannot see his post but only where it is tagged on the bottom of a post i left earlier?

Regards Mike169

Yes Mike..... my comment was intended for the rather "unconventional" answer offered by Philo1 which I feel is incorrect and potentially dangerous

[Wiz201]

Well as I've said before, Mr T is having a look on Monday, so I'm not going to touch anything. I've found out I've got a three month guarantee on repairs so they are not charging for the ecu scanning.

[Mike169]

Hi 'Red' and very nice to meet you...........I was just checking, was his original comment removed by a moderator just that i couldn't see how it was tagged onto my comment but 'in a window' i have seen his comment hence how i got his name Phil01.

I taught motor mechanics at a college for a few years, only as a teachers assistant but i took classes and have worked on cars and HGV's for most of my life and on this subject of course 'we' know we are all correct. The best way i found to get it to sink into students heads with regards to the Battery leads is just think about the black one, it is the first one you touch (To remove) and the last one you touch (To refit) and never to lay the spanner being used sideways on the Battery top as it's a convenient place to lay it incase it 'shorts' the 2 Battery terminals.

Regards Mike169