Possible Clutch Issue?

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

HI Guys

I can't remember if I have asked you guys for your help on this issue before as I can't seem to find my old post.

Anyway, I have an annoying issue with my car, it wasn't too bad several months ago, but it has progressively got worse, basically, every time I put my gear in 1st and bring up my clutch as normal, it judders, the engine judders, and it feels like the whole car shakes, it is noticeable to people passing by as they tend to look at me, it can be embarrassing, I cant figure out what may be causing it, but it is beginning to stress me out.

Just so you guys know, I maintain my car very well, may be too much so, always serviced on time, fuel additives at every fill up, and washed n waxed weekly, 48k on the clock, owned her for 4 years now, never had any issues what so ever! And she is a 1.6 2006 petrol and obviously manual transmission!

I look forward to your comments prior to seeing some mechanics and THANK YOU all in advance.

Sammy

[KenMavor]

Is there any slippage at any other times?

Are there any other symptoms or is this just something that happens in 1st?

With it stopped but running, put the car in 2nd or 3rd gear and let out the clutch. If it does not stall, but the RPMs go up and the vehicle does not move, the clutch is slipping and probably needs replaced.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

HI Ken

No, no slippage at any time...only that judder when taking off in 1st gear and does not happen in any other gear...only 1st when bringing up clutch whether I bring it up normal, slow, or quick!

I will definitely try your slippage test tomorrow, thank you so much...but if I put it in 2nd or 3rd gear and let out the clutch..and it does stall...which means no clutch slippage...what could my problem be then???

[Raistlin]

Faulty release bearing ????

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

HI

Is that a difficult diy fix and an expensive one? If it is a possible cause, should I replace with a new clutch kit at the same time?

Sammy

[Raistlin]

If you can afford it yes then both will be working at the right tolerance's but test it first ;)

[oldcodger]

Hi Sammy,

Have always found well used Toyota clutches can judder a bit on the low gears when the engine is really warmed up after a long run, but yours sounds like its more likey when cold.

It could be also be due to some very slight oil leak getting on to the plates.

Whatever the cause always replace the full kit, friction disc, cover plate and release bearing.

If you look at the haynes manual clutch renewal is really a workshop job as it need a lift to get decent access to remove the gearbox which needs various things like the front exhuast pipes dropping etc.

If you shop around you will find vast differences in prices; its the old story who do you think will do a good job.

Once removed its only then that anyone can say if the flywheels face needs skimming or replacing along with the crankshaft or gearbox input shafts oil seals, the former being expensive.

Toyota used to give 2 prices, one for an 'original' and another for an 'opti' fit, cheaper parts to compete with other high street garages, but still on the high side.

Thought you said your lad was a mechanic, a saturday job for him ??

[kr236rk]

Had a juddery first gear start for ... years. Compensated by giving plenty of revs while letting the clutch in. However, when the Corolla was serviced they said I needed a new clutch. They showed me the old one when I called in to collect the car, they said the clutch had worn down to the rivets, was "on the rivets" and would have broken up at some stage. That clutch must have needed changing ages ago, it's surprising no-one else spotted it.

Now I have a new clutch and boy o boy is it a fierce one! :-o

[Mike169]

A juddery clutch can be weak springs in the clutch plate itself or the juddering can be for a few other reasons....anyway simply renewing it should cure the problem :D If as previously mentioned it is the release bearing it could simply fail and you will break down so perhaps it would be a good idea to do the job sooner rather than later.

Regards Mike169

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

You guys have all been truly supportive with me on this one...THANK YOU to you ALL.

I did the clutch test today...engine running...handbrake down...gears in 2nd and I tried it in 3rd...bought up my clutch...foot on the gas...had to rev very slightly more than normal...car took off absolutely smooth...so is there something else I should be looking out for???

Also, had the boot loaded with over 100kgs of new radiator this afternoon, interestingly I noticed that I didn't have the clutch issue...no judder what so ever...also noticed that I am low on gas...I doubt those factors contribute to anything???

Tomorrows another day.

Sammy

[Steven252]

I doubt its clutch related.

My moneys on the aux belt tensioner. The damper on these gets movement which causes heavy juddering on low rpm high load pulls. I recently changed mine and upon removal there was a good 5-6mm of moment in the damper joint

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Interesting ... assume you mean lengthways free play in the plunger rod of the old damper ; the new one having none ?

Expect its a dealer only part - can I ask the price ?

[Steven252]

No the damper itself is fine.

Its the rose joint that connects the bottom part of the damper to the aux tensioner arm that developes play.

Toyota wanted £183 for a new one. I had to make a good one out of two second hand ones i got hold off

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Thanks for that, will take a look as see what mines like.

Wonder if Sammys is also worn, causing her judder.?

[Steven252]

Possibly mate, i thought i had seriously warped my clutch once it got real bad but it was this. It was really judering violently from it.

You need to remove the drivers side engine mount and jack the engine up to remove it. Took me about 20mins to get it off to fully inspect it

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

HI,

Guys you have lost me now...rose joints? dampers? aux tensioners? I thought it was my clutch?

[Steven252]

Basically, i had the same symptoms as you, violent juddering when pulling off or when at low rpms and high load inputs.

It was nothing to do with the clutch itself, the AUX tensioner damper had developed loads of play causing the vibrations. My clutch wasnt slipping and wasnt showing any other symptoms of failing.

Before splashing out a hell of alot of money on a new clutch, check the AUX tensioner. AFAIA they are the same on the 2/3/4zz corollas. This is possibly your problem and at 50k id imagine your clutch is fine.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Basically, i had the same symptoms as you, violent juddering when pulling off or when at low rpms and high load inputs.

It was nothing to do with the clutch itself, the AUX tensioner damper had developed loads of play causing the vibrations. My clutch wasnt slipping and wasnt showing any other symptoms of failing.

Before splashing out a hell of alot of money on a new clutch, check the AUX tensioner. AFAIA they are the same on the 2/3/4zz corollas. This is possibly your problem and at 50k id imagine your clutch is fine.

Hi and thank you for helping me here, so how do i check my aux tensioner? I assume that you are referring to the tensioner pulley that you would slacken when changing your drive belt? I remember changing my drive belt 3 yeats back, was nothing wrong it at the time, just happened to come across a new one cheap at the time and it was a 5 minute job.

Also can i change this tensioner from the top if its the one i think it is?

Sammy

[Steven252]

Yes, it runs the aux belt. Its not the tensioner part thats at fault its the damper on it.

Yea you can remove it from the top to inspect it. The drivers side engine mount needs to be unbolted and the engine jacked all the way up to remove the bolts

[oldcodger]

Hi Sammy,

Its the small damper on the bulkhead end of that tensioner arm that you lever to slip and new belt on with.

Though I had to use about 2ft of extensions before I could move it !

Its the bottom joint of the damper that has this 'rose' joint, a kind of ball joint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_end_bearing

Seems like you can get to it from the top as Steven says but at £183 a pop you need to get it out and see if its worn first.

Hi Steven,

Looking at that joint in situ, not sure where the bearing is situated on the damper arm or pressed into the tensioner castings arm ?

Seems this place does them but no idea of size, do you think these might be suitable ?

http://rosebearings.co.uk/ section Motorsport - Spherical Bearings

[roks]

Appologies, I dont mean to hijak the thread.

I also have this juddering when I go on at the lights. I can somewhat control the judder by releasing the clutch real slow and keeping my foot on the gas.

Do you guys think I might have the same issue or is some thing else?

Thanks.

[Steven252]

Hi Sammy,

Its the small damper on the bulkhead end of that tensioner arm that you lever to slip and new belt on with.

Though I had to use about 2ft of extensions before I could move it !

Its the bottom joint of the damper that has this 'rose' joint, a kind of ball joint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_end_bearing

Seems like you can get to it from the top as Steven says but at £183 a pop you need to get it out and see if its worn first.

Hi Steven,

Looking at that joint in situ, not sure where the bearing is situated on the damper arm or pressed into the tensioner castings arm ?

Seems this place does them but no idea of size, do you think these might be suitable ?

http://rosebearings.co.uk/ section Motorsport - Spherical Bearings

Sorry mate, not really active on here.

No, the damper casing is the joint itself. So once its dead there's not a lot you can do about it. I suppose it would be possible to drill it out to the next size up and fit a sleeve, however its probably more cost effective just to replace the arm itself

Also don't buy a patent part item listed for the celica. These are a different length than the corolla item due to the power steering pump. However, it is possible to swop the damper and the tensioner pulley onto the old corolla arm if you have the right sockets.

Appologies, I dont mean to hijak the thread.

I also have this juddering when I go on at the lights. I can somewhat control the judder by releasing the clutch real slow and keeping my foot on the gas.

Do you guys think I might have the same issue or is some thing else?

Thanks.

yes, if I gave it more revs when pulling of, say @1800 or above, I did not have any juddering.

[roks]

Thanks for the reply Steven252,

Could you kindly post a picture and location of the faulty part (damper/rose joint) please?

Is this the arm that is lever to release the drive belt?

[roks]

Thanks for the reply Steven252,

Could you kindly post a picture and location of the faulty part (damper/rose joint) please?

Is this the arm that is lever to release the drive belt?

Never mind, I have found the 'rose joint' there is no play there, no leaking or anything from the boot. There is a tiny bit of pay on the pulley, very small amount and not noise from bearing.

Anyways, I just noticed this judder appears on colder days, all last week was fine but today its rainy so its quite cold and its done it couple of time so I just played with the clutch and gas.

[dannier]

Sammy,

Have you changed the clutch fluid? It Is the same as break fluid (on old cars DOT4 on new DOT5) coming from the same reservoir. I am talking about the hydraulic master - slave cylinders to control the clutch. If there is air inside the circuit, and because air is compressible, can behave as you describe.