Oh Dear More Cost Cutting?...(Recall)

[stompe]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26950970

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I was nearly tempted to post something about the recall news but then I remembered how many times my Peugeot was recalled (and never, ever made the news).

Toyota are going over the top on recalls and the press have an issue with it. But, the reliability of my Prius has been shocking and I mean it has been worse than my Peugeot!!! I still like the car and the smoothness, but I doubt I'd get another. I wonder how Toyota ever got a reputation for reliability. Maybe lots of low mileage, private owners filled in the surveys and the cars were compared with high mileage business owners from other makes? I dunno. But my Prius has broken down at the side of the road twice, and a third time it dragged it's **** to work before packing in, and a fourth time it wouldn't start or run properly when the egr valve failed. The only other cars of mine to break down at the side of the road were a Rover (enough said), a brand new London taxi (dreadful cars) and a 15 year old Vauxhall Cavalier in France. My Peugeot 406 ran to over 300k miles, my petrol Ford Mondeo ran to (just shy of) 300k miles and my super Prius broke down twice and has only just hit 80k miles last week.

Quality control? Hmmm. Cost cutting? I don't know. Happy owner? Nope.

[Parts-King]

When I first worked for a Toyota dealer in 1976, our warranty audit book was about one page per year. You must remember though that we were selling about 100 cars a year. That is now ten fold and so are the claim levels, however in terms of percentages, they are MORE reliable now than they ever were. it's just the numbers are a lot more

By their own admission, they took their eye off the ball in terms of quality, but since accelerator pedalgate, Toyota have been far more pro-active in seeking out possible faults and recalling cars as required, they are happy to do this with their policy of putting things right, other manufacturers choose not to be so open

Kingo

[Parts-King]

When I first worked for a Toyota dealer in 1976, our warranty audit book was about one page per year. You must remember though that we were selling about 100 cars a year. That is now ten fold and so are the claim levels, however in terms of percentages, they are MORE reliable now than they ever were. it's just the numbers are a lot more

By their own admission, they took their eye off the ball in terms of quality, but since accelerator pedalgate, Toyota have been far more pro-active in seeking out possible faults and recalling cars as required, they are happy to do this with their policy of putting things right, other manufacturers choose not to be so open

Kingo

[LeeroyJones87]

Hi all,

Media coverage OTT yet again for Toyota!

Where are the stats to say that Toyota are still in the top five in the world for least amount of recalls?

I think people shouldn't go overboard with this latest recall as it is better for Toyota to find a solution to these niggles before they cause any issues.

Leeroy

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Hey guys

Despite my less than rosey reliability experience with Toyota, the dealers have been amazing.

I'd also rather Toyota recall cars when there's an issue than cover it up like others. Infact, the Sky News report on the recall did mention about the GM ignition switch 'issue' that GM have known about for over a decade yet not fixed it so as to save money (at the expense of deaths).

I also worked for an insurance company and can report that a certain French manufacturer had a model that was renowned for having the bonnet fly open at speed. This has caused accidents and injuries and if I recall, the manufacturer were not accepting the issue. No I won't say who it was, but I won't ever buy one of those cars!

[stompe]

Hey guys

Despite my less than rosey reliability experience with Toyota, the dealers have been amazing.

I'd also rather Toyota recall cars when there's an issue than cover it up like others. Infact, the Sky News report on the recall did mention about the GM ignition switch 'issue' that GM have known about for over a decade yet not fixed it so as to save money (at the expense of deaths).

I also worked for an insurance company and can report that a certain French manufacturer had a model that was renowned for having the bonnet fly open at speed. This has caused accidents and injuries and if I recall, the manufacturer were not accepting the issue. No I won't say who it was, but I won't ever buy one of those cars!

Hiya Guys,

All very benevolent talking about what other car manufacturers are doing or not doing as the case may be but what is the root cause of all these recalls? It can only be cost cutting at our expense. All very well if you buy your car two thirds of the price that we pay for our cars, Toyota was one of the most reliable cars in years gone by I should know I have been driving them for 35 years. Yes I agree they are more technical now but a firm like Toyota should set the standards for others to follow. Lets look at Lexus, Customer Service and quality renowned year after year so why cant Toyota achieve the same. It comes to something when a member of public tells the Dealer when a recall is due on their vehicle. It would be fantastic if Toyota came on this website and answered some of the questions we all have. Sadly I don't think that will happen. I think this is mainly a Toyota GB problem because if you look at this website even some of the staff at Toyota UK have trouble finding answers to questions. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-auris-your-questions-answered

Ok that is my view over to you guys now I am interested in peoples other opinions. Perhaps I am the unlucky one who does not have a pick of Dealerships as where I live they are all owned by Lancasters. In my opinion too big to care.

Stompe

[FROSTYBALLS]

The above link doesn't work - so we're going to have difficulty discovering your evidence.

[stompe]

Hiya Frosty, It works for me mate. anyone else having problems with it?

[Devon Aygo]

Hiya Frosty, It works for me mate. anyone else having problems with it?

Not working for me either?

[stompe]

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-auris-your-questions-answered

[Devon Aygo]

Hey guys

Despite my less than rosey reliability experience with Toyota, the dealers have been amazing.

I'd also rather Toyota recall cars when there's an issue than cover it up like others. Infact, the Sky News report on the recall did mention about the GM ignition switch 'issue' that GM have known about for over a decade yet not fixed it so as to save money (at the expense of deaths).

I also worked for an insurance company and can report that a certain French manufacturer had a model that was renowned for having the bonnet fly open at speed. This has caused accidents and injuries and if I recall, the manufacturer were not accepting the issue. No I won't say who it was, but I won't ever buy one of those cars!

Hiya Guys,

All very benevolent talking about what other car manufacturers are doing or not doing as the case may be but what is the root cause of all these recalls? It can only be cost cutting at our expense. All very well if you buy your car two thirds of the price that we pay for our cars, Toyota was one of the most reliable cars in years gone by I should know I have been driving them for 35 years. Yes I agree they are more technical now but a firm like Toyota should set the standards for others to follow. Lets look at Lexus, Customer Service and quality renowned year after year so why cant Toyota achieve the same. It comes to something when a member of public tells the Dealer when a recall is due on their vehicle. It would be fantastic if Toyota came on this website and answered some of the questions we all have. Sadly I don't think that will happen. I think this is mainly a Toyota GB problem because if you look at this website even some of the staff at Toyota UK have trouble finding answers to questions. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-auris-your-questions-answered

Ok that is my view over to you guys now I am interested in peoples other opinions. Perhaps I am the unlucky one who does not have a pick of Dealerships as where I live they are all owned by Lancasters. In my opinion too big to care.

Stompe

The honest answer is everyone views Toyota's attitude towards recalls differently, working at a dealer level I can say that the vast majority of people appreciate Toyota's approach to recalling cars, there are however people that see it as a detrimental thing, today I fielded a call call from someone ( not actually recalled ) demanding Toyota offer him compensation because his car has been devalued by the recalls??

I work within a company that runs multiple other franchises and can honestly say that Toyota are equally as good as some and far better than most in terms of reliability, my job as a warranty administrator is far less stressful than some of my colleagues because Toyota do acknowledge faults and Recall when required of offer warranty extensions where not. There is however one franchise that is better and that is Lexus and as I cover both I can tell you it is all down to numbers, the CT200h as an example suffers near identical issues as the MK3 Prius the difference comes from the sheer difference in volume and profit per unit. Lexus sell far fewer cars so the overall reapair rates are far lower meaning Lexus staff can spend more time and effort on each client and Lexus makes more profit per unit than Toyota so can throw more money back in to the niceties that give the perception of a better product. and perception is all it is, remember Lexus only offer a 3 year warranty on near identical products, why? because it is perceived that there is no need for a 5 year warranty.

[stompe]

Hey guys

Despite my less than rosey reliability experience with Toyota, the dealers have been amazing.

I'd also rather Toyota recall cars when there's an issue than cover it up like others. Infact, the Sky News report on the recall did mention about the GM ignition switch 'issue' that GM have known about for over a decade yet not fixed it so as to save money (at the expense of deaths).

I also worked for an insurance company and can report that a certain French manufacturer had a model that was renowned for having the bonnet fly open at speed. This has caused accidents and injuries and if I recall, the manufacturer were not accepting the issue. No I won't say who it was, but I won't ever buy one of those cars!

Hiya Guys,

All very benevolent talking about what other car manufacturers are doing or not doing as the case may be but what is the root cause of all these recalls? It can only be cost cutting at our expense. All very well if you buy your car two thirds of the price that we pay for our cars, Toyota was one of the most reliable cars in years gone by I should know I have been driving them for 35 years. Yes I agree they are more technical now but a firm like Toyota should set the standards for others to follow. Lets look at Lexus, Customer Service and quality renowned year after year so why cant Toyota achieve the same. It comes to something when a member of public tells the Dealer when a recall is due on their vehicle. It would be fantastic if Toyota came on this website and answered some of the questions we all have. Sadly I don't think that will happen. I think this is mainly a Toyota GB problem because if you look at this website even some of the staff at Toyota UK have trouble finding answers to questions. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-auris-your-questions-answered

Ok that is my view over to you guys now I am interested in peoples other opinions. Perhaps I am the unlucky one who does not have a pick of Dealerships as where I live they are all owned by Lancasters. In my opinion too big to care.

Stompe

The honest answer is everyone views Toyota's attitude towards recalls differently, working at a dealer level I can say that the vast majority of people appreciate Toyota's approach to recalling cars, there are however people that see it as a detrimental thing, today I fielded a call call from someone ( not actually recalled ) demanding Toyota offer him compensation because his car has been devalued by the recalls??

I work within a company that runs multiple other franchises and can honestly say that Toyota are equally as good as some and far better than most in terms of reliability, my job as a warranty administrator is far less stressful than some of my colleagues because Toyota do acknowledge faults and Recall when required of offer warranty extensions where not. There is however one franchise that is better and that is Lexus and as I cover both I can tell you it is all down to numbers, the CT200h as an example suffers near identical issues as the MK3 Prius the difference comes from the sheer difference in volume and profit per unit. Lexus sell far fewer cars so the overall reapair rates are far lower meaning Lexus staff can spend more time and effort on each client and Lexus makes more profit per unit than Toyota so can throw more money back in to the niceties that give the perception of a better product. and perception is all it is, remember Lexus only offer a 3 year warranty on near identical products, why? because it is perceived that there is no need for a 5 year warranty.

Thanks Devon, That Explains the Lexus side of things, still can't see why Toyota can't do the same, after all Skoda can, after all said and done peeps buy cars for the service and reliability, something is going wrong as Toyota have slipped 5 places in a customer survey.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Why do you buy a Toyota? What is synonymous for Toyota?

Japanese reliability.

Where are most of the European Toyotas made? All over. When did the problems start? When they had too many pies in too many countries. They're trying too hard to make them look European. I fear they're inadvertantly making them too European in their reliability.

[Chris Dance]

I have no problems about Toyota recalls. I am pleased they found and sort out problems with their cars. Aircraft manufacturers only find out defects once their aircraft enters service. Car manufacturers are no different. Toyota sort out their car defects. Generally speaking other manufacturers do not. I tend to agree that the Japanese production cars have a much stringent quality control. As an example of this the Prius GEN2 was a very reliable car and reported to be over engineered.

I know a chap who worked at Vauxhall he said that cars not quite up to standard went "out of the door". It cost far too much to send the cars down the line again. He said it was left up to dealers to sort issues out.

Toyota dealers are very good at sorting any problems. eg. I had three lots of headlights and fog lights changed on an Avensis I owned to stop internal glass misting. I could mention lots of other issues that got sorted without hassle. I agree with the statement that most Toyota owners have no problems with Toyota recalls.

[Devon Aygo]

Hey guys

Despite my less than rosey reliability experience with Toyota, the dealers have been amazing.

I'd also rather Toyota recall cars when there's an issue than cover it up like others. Infact, the Sky News report on the recall did mention about the GM ignition switch 'issue' that GM have known about for over a decade yet not fixed it so as to save money (at the expense of deaths).

I also worked for an insurance company and can report that a certain French manufacturer had a model that was renowned for having the bonnet fly open at speed. This has caused accidents and injuries and if I recall, the manufacturer were not accepting the issue. No I won't say who it was, but I won't ever buy one of those cars!

Hiya Guys,

All very benevolent talking about what other car manufacturers are doing or not doing as the case may be but what is the root cause of all these recalls? It can only be cost cutting at our expense. All very well if you buy your car two thirds of the price that we pay for our cars, Toyota was one of the most reliable cars in years gone by I should know I have been driving them for 35 years. Yes I agree they are more technical now but a firm like Toyota should set the standards for others to follow. Lets look at Lexus, Customer Service and quality renowned year after year so why cant Toyota achieve the same. It comes to something when a member of public tells the Dealer when a recall is due on their vehicle. It would be fantastic if Toyota came on this website and answered some of the questions we all have. Sadly I don't think that will happen. I think this is mainly a Toyota GB problem because if you look at this website even some of the staff at Toyota UK have trouble finding answers to questions. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-auris-your-questions-answered

Ok that is my view over to you guys now I am interested in peoples other opinions. Perhaps I am the unlucky one who does not have a pick of Dealerships as where I live they are all owned by Lancasters. In my opinion too big to care.

Stompe

The honest answer is everyone views Toyota's attitude towards recalls differently, working at a dealer level I can say that the vast majority of people appreciate Toyota's approach to recalling cars, there are however people that see it as a detrimental thing, today I fielded a call call from someone ( not actually recalled ) demanding Toyota offer him compensation because his car has been devalued by the recalls??

I work within a company that runs multiple other franchises and can honestly say that Toyota are equally as good as some and far better than most in terms of reliability, my job as a warranty administrator is far less stressful than some of my colleagues because Toyota do acknowledge faults and Recall when required of offer warranty extensions where not. There is however one franchise that is better and that is Lexus and as I cover both I can tell you it is all down to numbers, the CT200h as an example suffers near identical issues as the MK3 Prius the difference comes from the sheer difference in volume and profit per unit. Lexus sell far fewer cars so the overall reapair rates are far lower meaning Lexus staff can spend more time and effort on each client and Lexus makes more profit per unit than Toyota so can throw more money back in to the niceties that give the perception of a better product. and perception is all it is, remember Lexus only offer a 3 year warranty on near identical products, why? because it is perceived that there is no need for a 5 year warranty.

Thanks Devon, That Explains the Lexus side of things, still can't see why Toyota can't do the same, after all Skoda can, after all said and done peeps buy cars for the service and reliability, something is going wrong as Toyota have slipped 5 places in a customer survey.

Its all about money, Lexus have more of it to spend on fewer customers because there customers pay more for the products and services they receive.

Skoda is all perception again, the perception is based on old stereotypes of eastern block Skoda , but in reality it is much improved, no better than any other VAG, but perceived to be better.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I hate to say it but that sounds like an excuse.

"ah, the expensive car has money to throw at the problem"

and

"ah, the cheap car means customers have low expectations".

How about;

"Toyota UK and/or some of their dealers have taken their eye off the boil"?

The shenanigans with the Auris HSD 12v flat Battery is the latest.

[Devon Aygo]

I hate to say it but that sounds like an excuse.

"ah, the expensive car has money to throw at the problem"

and

"ah, the cheap car means customers have low expectations".

How about;

"Toyota UK and/or some of their dealers have taken their eye off the boil"?

The shenanigans with the Auris HSD 12v flat battery is the latest.

Apologies it was not intended to appear as an excuse, merely an explanation.

We are none of us perfect Toyota and Dealers alike, we do make mistakes, but I do genuinely believe Toyota take the best possible attitude towards their mistakes and correcting them.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I do too. I have mentioned many a time that my local Toyota dealer are great. Sure they get it wrong now and then, but hey don't we all? I understand they're 2nd in the UK missing 1st place to a dealer in Wales area. Nothing is ever too much trouble and they're on genuine first name terms. They were also the reason my Mrs bought a Toyota.

But whilst her IQ has been a cracker, my Prius hasn't. I just wonder if Toyota have rested on their laurels too much and the slipping ratings are proof of that? Maybe they've realised that and have corrected things but it takes years for that to dribble down?

[RunningInPleasePass]

My last two cars have been Toyota, previous to that they were VW, and before that anything I could afford.

From my limited experience I would say Toyota Dealers are good, VW dealers are very much less good, Ford, Vauxhall, and Fiat were poor.

The cars from Toyota, VW, and Ford are all pretty much the same standard as regards reliability, Vauxhall and Fiat for me were poor.

To sum up my opinion I would say:

Most cars are okay, a few are poor, Toyota being one of the okay ones.

Most dealers are poor, a few are okay, Toyota being one of the okay ones.

[Seamaster73]

I've had the AA out to my Prius three times in three years. I've had to have my 12V Battery replaced. I've had the recalls. And the damn thing rattles like a tea tray full of crockery.

I'll be changing my car next year, and am unlikely to order another.

Pity, as I'm completely sold on HSD. I'd like to think an Auris or Yaris might be better quality, but this forum suggests otherwise.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Can I ask what the AA came out for? Just curious.