Whining Cvt Gearbox

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Mrs Cabbie has a 2010 auto IQ with only 33k miles on it which is mainly used in town around 15 miles a day.

Went for a long (for the car) run of about 40 miles today and for the last 10 miles the CVT started to make a whining, bearing type noise that was fairly quiet to begin with but got louder and occurred longer and longer until it was pretty much doing it all the time.

Rang the dealers when we got home who said pop over in about 2 hours time and they'll have a look. In that time the car has cooled down a little and the whine wasn't there, or was but barely there compared to before. Went for a spin and they did hear it but said Toyota UK are really clamping down on warranty claims and that they'll refer the case to their service manager and maybe need to pop in some sound recording equipment.

Couple of points;

1, Has anyone else with a CVT IQ noticed this whining/bearing noise when warm and does anyone know if this is a common issue? The service guy said they'd never had problems with the CVT's before, but that the MMT box in the Aygo wasn't great.

2, Anyone else heard about having to put in sound recording equipment for a bearing noise? Seems a bit over the top. Or is it the cost of these gearboxes that's causing it?

3, How reliable are these gearboxes?

[sweet-dentist]

MMT on Aygo is only on Aygo / Aygo does not have a CVT possibility ... it's a terrible automatic in the bigger Verso..but it's OK in the Aygo (smaller car = less weight).

My wife has the Verso with the MMT box... it is dreadful... but then again way better than the one in the Smart (also a MMT box)..

The "new" Verso has a CVT also .... AND is allowed to pull a trailer / caravan with it.

I do think the CVT is very reliable... never any problems... (45.000 kilometers) ... but you never know...

Never heard of a whining noise in the gearbox... though a little whining of the push-belt in a CVT is normal...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Oh it's been ok for 30k miles. It's just when it gets hot (after a long run) it seems to really whine and loudly. Almost like an old Rover Metro in 1st gear! Sounds like a bearing to me.

Does the cvt need oil or fluid? The dealers said it's sealed for life but they'll check whether it can be topped up etc.

[mrpj]

The Yaris CVT, presumably very similar to that fitted in the IQ, requires a fluid change every 40000 miles or 4 years according to the service book.

I could be wrong, but "sealed for life" seems to be unlikely?! Unless the transmission is totally different.

[bobkneale]

CVT might be "reliable" however it wont be as "reliable" as a Manual gearbox in my view.

Good "Old" Auto Gearboxes were more reliable in my view, perhaps not as smooth with infiniately variable ratios however I have had many and never had a fault or failure over 100's of thousands of miles.

CVT is Just a sign of todays throw away designs ! not built to last !

"Sealed for Life" means Life is limited in my view !

Sorry but that's my truth !

[sweet-dentist]

These symptoms....

After surfing the Interweb's .. I have strongly the idea that the problem can be cause by old CVT oil....so it would need an CVT oil-change..

IF this a possibility with the CVT of the iQ...I do not know... but it really should be possible...

So please look and ask your dealer if this can be done...

[sweet-dentist]

Found this in the Maintenance Manual on DVD...

CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE TRANSAXLE FLUID > ADJUSTMENT NOTICE:

1. This transmission requires Toyota Genuine CVT Fluid TC.
2. Make sure that the vehicle is level when inspecting the fluid level.
   (The front-to-rear inclination angle must be within +/- 1° from horizontal.)
3. Allow the fluid to cool to room temperature before performing any of these procedures.

Soo.... Toyota Genuine CVT Fluid TC it can be replaced...:-)

Very sorry...but could not upload the complete text of this... but it handles about changing this fluid...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Well it's a good head up. I'll await to hear from the dealers as to what needs doing. I wonder if the oil level is low and they're assuming it's a sealed for life system and not bothering checking it?

At least it's not my car.

[Mr Smar]

Hi, The CVT in my iq2 was replaced after it started whining, mine was never that loud and sounded like an electric motor which was more noticeable over 40mph but was doing it all the time even when cold, car had done 7000 miles. it was replaced under warranty with no fuss in 2 days and has been fine so far. Out of warranty the price quoted would have been £5400....

regards

J

[Wiz201]

my dad had a Jazz with a CVT which I borrowed once I passed my test and that did 80k miles in 6 years without any problems until it got wiped out by an idiot in a toyota corolla. It got regularly serviced with I presume the specific oil required for CVT.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

It's still whining but on and off; usually fine when cold.

These updates to this thread have reminded me to call and chase the dealers. Either the gearbox is replaced or the car gets sold, but I don't fancy a £4,500 bill for a car worth erm, £4,500.

[bobkneale]

It's still whining but on and off; usually fine when cold.

These updates to this thread have reminded me to call and chase the dealers. Either the gearbox is replaced or the car gets sold, but I don't fancy a £4,500 bill for a car worth erm, £4,500.

If its out of Warranty you only have 2 choices, 1) Fix (expensive) 2) Sell,

However selling without mentioning the problem is ???? Perhaps you could part ex and leave someone else the problem ?? I personally would not hide the problem, I guess its a matter of eithical judgement ?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The garage are taking it on an extended test drive for a day with sound recording equipment. Trusting the car misbehaves, then are new transmission should be provided under warranty.

[bobkneale]

The garage are taking it on an extended test drive for a day with sound recording equipment. Trusting the car misbehaves, then are new transmission should be provided under warranty.

Good Luck !

[Xophe]

Hello,

I am convinced that the CVT oil must be replaced after 40000 miles or so.

I contacted the official Toyota garage in my town, they agreed that it is a safe practice to ensure a good reliability.

Alas, yesterday when I brought my IQ for that oil change, all 5 mechanics stayed for half an hour under the car, observing the gear box, and finally they admitted that they never did that operation yet and they could not find the orifices.

Apparently they had no training and no manual to explain the procedure !

Finally they declared that they could remove the lower cover (?) to change the gear box oil, but it would take several hours and cost 300 euros, and they prefer not to do it !

So I am very confused.

Is there anybody on this forum who already replaced the oil of his CVT ?

Thanks,

Christophe

[Xophe]

I just found that video showing how to change oil on a Toyota CVT box, may be out IQ has a similar design...

It seems incredible, but as you can notice, there is no drain plug !

There is one plug, corresponding to a drain tube to limit the volume of oil.

So they have to totally dismantle the cover, then change its big seal.

[craggle]

I have the workshop manual here and it's not a straight forward procedure to change or check the oil level. Attached is a PDF of the manual section which covers it.

My Range Rover was the same though, no drain plug on the auto gearbox so you had to remove the pressed steel sump pan, clean it out, replace the oil filter in there, add a new gasket and refit. Was messy but a simple task in the end.

Craig.

Oil change.pdf

[Xophe]

Thanks a lot, Craig. That document is very useful.

I discovered that :

- only 0.4 liter of CVT oil can be replaced on a total of 1.6 l (i.e. 25%).

- Toyota engineers probably decided to eliminate the drain plug to force the oil pan removal, so that it can be correctly cleaned.

- the operation is so simple that it can be done by any mechanic, no need to pay a lot for that.

- 300 euros is totally crazy, unless CVT oil costs 10 times more than Champagne...

[craggle]

No problem.

Only one thing. I think the 0.4 litres of oil is a bit misleading. I think the procedure will be......

Remove the sump pan and clean out any debris which there really shouldn't be any,

Refit the sump pan with new gasket,
Fill with oil until it comes out the drain / level plug hole. This will be quite a lot as the drain plug has a tube sticking into the sump at the right level.

Fit the drain / level plug then add the additional 0.4 litres of oil.

Run the engine and work the gears then remove the drain / level plug again and let the oil find it's own level then re-fit the plug.

I think that's the way I read it anyway. but happy to be corrected. :)

Craig.

[Parts-King]

- 300 euros is totally crazy, unless CVT oil costs 10 times more than Champagne...

Yes that's about right, about £20 a litre ;)

[bobkneale]

Glad i went for manual gearbox ! even the manual is not perfect, and syncro mesh going into second is not "quite" perfect ! however probably more reliable in the longer term than a more complex CVT.

Now after me posting this,some people will say that CVT is good and that they have had no problems with it, perhaps that is the case for the majority of CVT's out there, however lets see how CVT compairs to manual in terms of reliability at 150 to 200,000 miles !

Anyone want a small bet on this ? I'm ready !

[craggle]

Off course the weakest part of any manual gearbox is the clutch which the CVT versions don't have.

My 6 speed manual box is a bit sticky to get first and second but only when cold. I'm sure that is the clutch rather than the gearbox at fault though but it hasn't bothered me enough to take the gearbox out and inspect further, Yet...... :)

Craig.

[Xophe]

Yes Bob, my CVT is good and I have no problem with it !

Same thing with the automatic GB of my Citroën C5 (255000 km, like new, and of course no clutch maintenance)

Thanks Craig for the correction. You are right. But strangely, they never mention the total volume to fill up the box.

I also think that the sump pan can stay in place: all we need is to remove the drain plug, then remove the tube using a hexagonal wrench !

That is why the tube is removable from the bottom.

Pretty clever: the same drain plug makes 2 functions, and there is only 1 seal ...

Christophe

[craggle]

So long as the drain plug is at the bottom of the sump your idea makes perfect sense. I was wondering why it says to check the tube is tight but can see it now.

Let us know how it goes if you tackle the job yourself.

Craig.

[bobkneale]

Did the whining CVT problem ever get fixed ? If so what was the "root cause" ?