Why Are Plug In Sales Low In The Uk?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Just read that the number of Prius Plug Ins sold in America the last two years totals 30,000. I looked into how many have been sold in Blighty; 1.000.

Now considering that America has 5x the population size that means we should have sold 5,000 PIP's, which is still short of their 30,000.

How come? We get a £5,000 grant, they get upto $7,000 grant off purchase price (it can be $2,500 in some States). Our petrol is $8 a US gallon and there's is $4. Our electric is about 15p a unit and there's is 15c a unit of 9p.

Are Americans just more open to new ideas? Or is it that the PIP costs $30,000 or £17,800 (plus import duty plus vat) = £23,500 BEFORE the grant.

So potentially the PIP in the US (adjusted with import duty and UK VAT) could cost £18,000. Now you can see why they're buying them in such numbers.

Let's compare the US Prius 3 against the similarly specced UK Prius t3.

US Prius 3 = $25,765 or £15,300 (but add 10% UK import duty at 20% vat) = £20,196. Now add £1,000 delivery and plates (which are included in UK sales) = £21,200.

UK Prius t3 = £21,995 inc delivery, plates, prep etc

Result: US Prius 3 is £800 cheaper than the UK model

US PIP is £9,895 cheaper than the UK model (£33,395 UK before grant compared to £23,500 US before grant)

OK Let's assume the US price of £23,500 INCLUDES their $7,000/£4,100 grant. Let's remove £5,000 from the UK base price of £33,395 = £28,295 or £4,795 more expensive than the US price without their $7k grant. Let's add £1,000 delivery like we did above = £3,795.

Whichever way we try and diddle the figures in the favour of Toyota UK, the UK PIP would seem to be about £4,000 more at LEAST, ranging to nearly £10k more at most.

Maybe this explains why we've sold 1,000 PIP's and the US 30k? I could be wrong and often am though.

Any comments or spot any mistakes?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Historically vehicles have always been a lot cheaper in the US than in Europe, and I don't think comparing the two markets is particularly valid.

For a given market, manufacturers base their pricing on what is currently available within that sector of the market, and what they think they can sell the product at, whilst remaining competitive and retaining profit margins.

In the UK, the Prius Plug in has a list price of £33,395. The comparative Chevrolet Volt is £35,255, and the Vauxhall Ampera £33,750. Figures are before any grant is applied. So the price seems to be competitive to other similar products in the UK market place.

In other European countries the entry prices of a Prius Plug In are (in GB Pounds):

Germany £29,829

France £30,441

Norway £33,552

Netherlands £27,714

Portugal £31,014

Spain £27,176 (after a recent £1,878 price reduction).

Historically, cars on the UK market have had better equipment levels than other markets in Europe - again down to what the market expects. So some of the difference in basic prices above could be due to differing equipment levels. The level of safety systems and security systems also varies from one European country to another. The security system for UK market cars have been stronger than for other European markets for a number of years - some countries are now catching up.

[Ten Ninety]

I don't think it's just about price. Over the pond they have a natural dislike for diesel engines in passenger cars. Hybrids and plug-ins will therefore sell much better there than they will in Europe where the dirty stuff, sadly, has become the dominant way to achieve good fuel economy.

I've been lucky enough to take regular holidays in the South West of the US in the last decade and the hybrid population over there has soared over that time. Last month in San Francisco, we were stuck in a traffic jam on a three-lane freeway and amusingly found ourselves literally surrounded by Priuses on every side. There were plenty of Volts and Model S's and Leafs knocking around as well. Whilst California certainly isn't America, their love of clean air (supported by legislation) will undoubtedly bump the national sales figures up for hybrids and plug-ins.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Also in the US, Toyota have hybrid versions of the Camry, Avalon and Highlander, and the Rav 4 EV.

Just had a look at the total numbers first registered in the UK for 2011, 2012 and 2013

Chevrolet Volt 129

Vauxhall Ampera 696

Toyota Prius Plug in 958

[cootuk]

I guess many in the UK would be company cars on contract hire.

PiP would be around £300pm contract hire for which you could get a base Audi A6 etc

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I guess many in the UK would be company cars on contract hire.

PiP would be around £300pm contract hire for which you could get a base Audi A6 etc

And if it were £23k it would fall into lower brackets and open itself to many more people in the A4 or even A3 banding perhaps?

Toyota don't want to sell the PIP in the UK. Comparing it to the Ampera that gets 50 miles EV just shows that Toyota think it's more than it is. How do our American friends say "comparing applies to oranges". Compare the US prices of the PIP against the Volt and you'll see which is much more expensive (the Volt).

But sales of hybrids are dropping in the UK. Why? Is it just diesel or is it the high prices?

The figures quoted by Frostyballs shows the way Toyota UK have cynically overpriced the PIP by £5k. How do Holland manage to sell it for £27K? Minus £5k off that and you have a winner.

But where it's right or wrong for Toyota to manipulate prices for Government grants, remember it's OUR tax money they're possibly abusing. Now that's not right however you look at it.

Sad when it comes to that.

[Peter2673]

I bought a PIP but only after negotiating £4300 off the price. Having sorted a price similar to those quoted above for the rest of Europe, it seemed a fair deal. I have to say, it really is a much nicer car than the T-Spirit it replaced, mainly on account of being able to whoosh around in silence for a greater proportion of the journey and at higher speeds.

Pete

[cuius]

The price reduction in Spain is a temporary promotion ending this month

Only 73 plug-in hybrids were sold in Spain last year - will need more than €2300 reduction to boost sales.

Incidentally €2300 was the local government grant I received when buying my Auris HSD a couple of years ago - these grants have now ended, which probably explains the low take-up

[johalareewi]

Before the UK grant was introduced, the plugin Prius was announced at an expected price of around £26K (before you could actually order one that is). Then the grant was announced and when the plugin was available to order, it was about £31K.

Nissan did the same with the leaf (added £5K to the list price).

I rest my case.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Before the UK grant was introduced, the plugin Prius was announced at an expected price of around £26K (before you could actually order one that is). Then the grant was announced and when the plugin was available to order, it was about £31K.

Nissan did the same with the leaf (added £5K to the list price).

I rest my case.

That's how I remember it too. I watched all the updates on Priuschat when they had those UK plug in test mules. I spoke to my dealers about the PIP and they said it was going to be £26k minus the grant. I remember talking about the possibility of ordering one (at the time before things went !Removed! up) at £21k and how it might just be viable in the taxi game AND would be a selling point.

Then the Prius was released at £31k or was it £32k and I just remember thinking no way. If you know the technicalities of the PIP you'll realise there is not £10,000 more tech in it or even £5,000. The Battery is only a 5kwh. Compare that to the Leaf 24 kwh which is reported to cost about £5k or £6k. How can a Battery apparently costing the same as the PIP's yet have 5x the capacity?

Toyota CAN charge what they want. And people can choose to buy what they want too, and it looks like they are should that be aren't?

[2StrokeSteve]

Would be no good for me, would need a 50 meter extension lead.....

Cheers, Steve

[kithmo]

A few things put me off the PIP, the price rip off, the short 15 mile EV range (which was even shorter in real life), the lack of an engine/cabin pre-heating facility whilst charging, those small 15" wheels and trims and the lack of a spare wheel.

My Ideal PIP would have at least 30-40 miles EV, but preferably over 100 miles like the leaf, a coolant pre-heater, 17" wheels, with 15" as an option, a spare wheel, even a space saver is better than the gunge and pump thingy and cost around £26K.

Although I like tech and gadgets, I'd forego some of it to make some of the points above standard and bring down the price.

[orangezorki]

A few things put me off the PIP, the price rip off, the short 15 mile EV range (which was even shorter in real life), the lack of an engine/cabin pre-heating facility whilst charging, those small 15" wheels and trims and the lack of a spare wheel.

My Ideal PIP would have at least 30-40 miles EV, but preferably over 100 miles like the leaf, a coolant pre-heater, 17" wheels, with 15" as an option, a spare wheel, even a space saver is better than the gunge and pump thingy and cost around £26K.

Although I like tech and gadgets, I'd forego some of it to make some of the points above standard and bring down the price.

Every word you say makes perfect sense, and if all of those points had been implemented, I might have been tempted to splurge on the PIP instead of the Yaris (despite me not needing the space or preferring the look). Only, I wonder just how much good the pre-heating for the engine fluids would be after you had driven 10 miles stop-start on a frosty morning.

David

[kithmo]

For my commute of 3 miles, in winter pre-heat would have to be a must have, otherwise owning a PIP is just like having a very expensive normal Prius.

[orangezorki]

Ah - got your point - I was thinking more about the fuel economy. I guess that Toyota were doing that as well, especially if the eMPG includes such wasteful things as driver comfort...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Oh I didn't realise the PIP didn't allow for electric heating of the cabin? So do you mean that if you want or need the heating on for any amount that the engine will fire up?

That is pants here in the UK. It might work in California where a/c is more of an issue (and I guess a/c runs off the battery), but heat only coming from the engine is a real design fubar. I have my climate set at 20c which some thing is low, and yet even now in the middle of May my engine runs to heat up the cabin.

Tell me I'm wrong and there's an element of electric heating (if you pardon the pun).

[cuius]

Surprised there's no engine/cabin pre-heating as part of the charging process.

[barrycoll]

I had a Kenlowe engine coolant heater fitted to an earlier VW Golf diesel....it was very pleasing to switch on 20 mins before leaving, and see the temp guage up to Normal, before even starting the engine....and of course, it blew hot air straight away...

with even more modern engines, its major problem finding a bulk head to tap into to mount a pre-heat unit....but I think Kenlowe still do them

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Oh you can get a block heater for the Prius easily. Trouble is, they're all US/Canadian versions and only 110v/60hz. You'd over heat it with 220v!?!?!

Might be worth investigating a block heater from Norway or Sweden as I think they are still keen on them. They could be a pita, but if you do just short journeys, there would be nothing nicer than a warm car straight away.