Yaris Hsd Tyres

[Ethanedwards]

Got 30k on my Yaris today. Front contis are at 3mm so am changing them. 195 50 R16 84V I'm replacing the front two with the rears both at 6mm and putting Kumho Ecsta KH31s on the back. They get good reviews and are only £72 each fitted. I will let you know how it goes.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Looked them up on blackcircles and they're rated C for wet grip and E for fuel economy!?!?! A is good and G the worst.

You will find a drop in fuel economy. That may or may not bother you, but an E rated tyre will make a noticeable difference. You can get other tyres for that size at a C rating, which will improve your economy. Sure they cost more, but then you have a £14,000+ car and tyres that last 30k miles. Surely that warrants an extra £100 over the 4 tyres for peace of mind of a higher quality tyre?

On last thing. I had non low rolling resistance tyres fitted by mistake and my economy dropped by about 5 mpg. Doesn't sound a lot and you think you'd probably live with it. Just work out 5 mpg difference over 30,000 miles. Does it still save to go for the cheaper, less economical tyre?

Your call.

[Ethanedwards]

Hi GC

I don't like the idea of low rolling resistance tyres that trade off with less grip on the road. And the Yaris HSD doesnt have LRR tyres as oem anyway.

The Contis fitted by Toyota are a F for fuel economy and a B for wet grip. So in fact the Ecsta's are "better" for fuel and not a whole lot different for grip. They do get good reviews on tyreleader.

All booked and paid for now Ill let you know how it turns out.

[Joseph D]

Hi GC

I don't like the idea of low rolling resistance tyres that trade off with less grip on the road. ...

These days I don't think that this is a true statement or the implication that LRR tyre are unsafe. It may have been the case in the early days of LRR tyres, but technology has moved on and LRR tyres are certainly safe as far as grip goes.

Of the tyres I've used, I haven't noticed the LRR to be any less grippy than non LRR tyres.

But each person must get the tyres with which they feel safest.

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi GC

I don't like the idea of low rolling resistance tyres that trade off with less grip on the road. ...

These days I don't think that this is a true statement or the implication that LRR tyre are unsafe. It may have been the case in the early days of LRR tyres, but technology has moved on and LRR tyres are certainly safe as far as grip goes.

Of the tyres I've used, I haven't noticed the LRR to be any less grippy than non LRR tyres.

But each person must get the tyres with which they feel safest.

Nobody has implied that LRR tyres are unsafe

It is true that LRR tyres are by design, less grippy.....but they still meet or exceed the safety requirements whilst providing enhanced fuel economy

If the original tyres fitted to a car were LRR then it makes sense to fit replacements to the same standard......otherwise the point of running an Eco friendly car is lost

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I am an enthusiastic driver and have had the Prius going round corners in ways that were never foreseen at the design stage!

The low rolling resistance tyres are not a weak spot other than in snow or on ice. The weak sports are the chassis and steering which are likely to 'give way' before the tyres lose grip. But the Prius and/or Toyota hybrids are not designed as sports cars and unlikely to ever be driven as such (other than by me :) ).

And it's a free world and the op can do what he wants with his car. I just hope it isn't something they later regret. A 5% loss in mpg's in a car doing 30 mpg is insignificant, but in a car doing 60 mpg it is. Having looked at the tyre size it seems a strange choice by Toyota as 'eco' tyres are few and far between and the op is right that the Continentals are only E rated! I wonder if that's why people have been disappointed with Yaris HSD fuel economy? Did Toyota change to them halfway through release? Dunlop do a lrr tyre in the Yaris size that is B rated for mpg and A rated for grip, but it's £112 a pop - each!?! eeek.

I'm glad I've got the boring, crappy 15 inch wheels on my car. Only £70 fitted for a B mpg / A grip rated Michelin.

[valmiki]

As GC says +1

And I'm still looking for 15" steel wheels so I can get cheaper tyres along with a comfortable ride.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Continental tyres fitted to the Yaris Hybrid are the ContiPremiumContact 2's, which are not described on the Continental UK website as being low rolling resistance tyres. The current LRR tyres Continental produce are the EcoContact 3.

[Ancient Nerd]

As GC says +1

And I'm still looking for 15" steel wheels so I can get cheaper tyres along with a comfortable ride.

I bought a set of 15" Goodyear Ultra-Grip winter tyres on (German) Enzo W alloy wheels from Mytyres.co.uk for very little more than for a set of steel wheels. Unfortunately, they don't seem to list this rim any more, although there are a number of others..

The total cost was marginally less than buying replacement 17" tyres, including shipping from Germany. The rims have no sign of corrosion after two winters, unlike the Toyota rims which are corroding in many places.

The one warning is that there is not a great deal of clearance between the brake mechanism and the inner edge of the rim, so it is just possible that another model of rim might not fit.

And yes, the ride is significantly better than the 17".

[valmiki]

Thanks for that - I'll take a look when I get a chance ;-)

[Cyker]

I'd take the tyre ratings with a pinch of salt; In the 3 sets of tyres I've been through, I've found those ratings to be mostly BS.
It may be a bit more consistent with the newest tyres, but for older tyres, esp. ones that came out before the tyre rating scheme, I swear they just roll a pair of dice.

The Cooper CS2's (MPG:C/Wet:C) I'm running now have a higher rating than the Continental PremiumContact 2E's (E/C) I had on my old Yaris. However, I can attest the grip in the wet (And the dry for that matter) is noticeably worse and the economy isn't noticeably better.

If the user reviews are good and plentiful, I'd trust those over the seemingly arbitrary tyre rating labels!

LRR is not worth paying a premium for IMHO; You can achieve the same effect by boosting tyre pressures slightly. They tend to be slightly harder wearing (i.e. last longer), but perform a bit worse in winter than regular tyres.

That said, tyre manufacturers are increasingly rating their 'normal' tyres as being LRR so you're as likely to get one as not anyway! It's just become another checkbox rather than something really meaningful now. For instance I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between the 'normal' Conti PremiumContact2E and 'LRR' EcoContact3 (Well, unless it was absolutely ****** down with rain )

For what it's worth, my own personal Yaris 175/65R14 tyre league table atm is:
Conti PC2E (Good dry grip, great wet grip, long lasting)
Conti PC5 (Great dry and wet grip, would be top if they didn't wear out so fast!)
Cooper CS2 (Ok dry grip, ok wet grip, long lasting)
Firestone Multihawk (Ok dry grip, bad wet grip)

Not sure what I'll try next, but TBH I'll probably go back to the 2E's, assuming they still make them by then!

[Ancient Nerd]

I have to agree, the ratings are of very little use. My reasons for saying this is that when my first set of tyres wore out, I spent some time trying to get the best value replacement for the original 17" Michelin Primacy.

Without going into detail, I ended up with a set of Hankook K115 Ventus Prime 2. These are B rated for economy, compared with E for the previous Michelins. So I expected a measurable improvement in mpg, which hopefully would more than offset likely reduced tyre life (The Michelins survived almost 55,000 miles).

It didn't turn out that way. The Hankooks resulted in a reduction of around 2-3 mpg, despite the supposedly better economy rating.

I believe that each manufacturer performs their own tests and assigns the ratings themselves. This means that you can compare tyres from one manufacturer, but you cannot compare tyres from different manufacturers.

The Hankooks also turned out to be puncture prone. I had three punctures in around 35,000 miles, one of which wrote off the tyre.

While the Michelins still had full tread patterns visible down to 2mm tread, the Hankooks started with a similar tread pattern, but the front ones had lost all the minor tread pattern by 3.5mm leaving tyres that would have no means of shifting water. So they got replaced much earlier as aquaplaning doesn't hold much appeal.

So I've reverted to Michelin Primacy HPs on the rear, with the remaining Hankook on the front, with a similarly patterned Event tyre on the other side that will get replaced very soon along with the Hankook. The Event tyre was the result of limited choice at the local tyre dealer. If you have a space saver spare, you can't afford to wait for a replacement, but at least you aren't going to get stuck out of phone range.

[johalareewi]

LRR is not worth paying a premium for IMHO; You can achieve the same effect by boosting tyre pressures slightly. They tend to be slightly harder wearing (i.e. last longer), but perform a bit worse in winter than regular tyres.

Although %age reductions in mpg show up more with a hybrid (and other cars that have a high mpg).

Ask GC, he noticed almost immediately when he had non LRR tyres fitted due to a significant drop in mpgs.

You can also boost the tyre pressures on LRRs to get more mpgs ;)

Not sure there is much of a premium these days for LRR tyres. Everyone seems to do them and when I got my last set of Michelin's, they were pretty much the same price as a non LRR tyre. plus, the savings you make buying less petrol are massive (if you do a lot of miles).

[Cyker]

You can up the psi with LRRs that are really normal tyres, but with 'real' LRR's, boosting pressures more than a handful of psi is borderline dangerous and nets very little improvement.

I find the harder compound and stiffer construction they use tends to be more prone to understeer than normal tyres, esp. in the wet, and boosting the pressure too much will make it that much worse.

I always say boosting pressures is a 'poor man's LRR' and this is kinda true in many ways; Boosting pressures in a tyre makes it stiffer; LRR's are already stiffened so you don't get that much benefit doing the pressure boosting trick.

For instance, with a normal tyre, going from 32psi to, say, 38psi yields quite a noticeable reduction in rolling resistance and makes the tyre noticeably stiffer;
With a good LRR, it should be near that level of rolling resistance already at stock PSI because it's been designed to be stiffer to begin with.


The CS2's I'm using atm are 'semi' LRR and I'm still experimenting, but at 40psi they were badly understeery round wet corners compared to the CPC2E and CPC5's I had before (Those were lovely tyres; So much more grip in the dry and the wet! Shame the 5's were so soft tho'!). They feel much less scary at 35psi, and the mpg and rolling resistance changes haven't been as noticeable as the CPC's going from 35 to 40. I'd say at 35, they're operating in the same sort of ball-park as the CPCs were at 40!

Will be interesting to see what they are like in snow and mud! The CPCs only have radial grooves but the CS2s are hybrid tyres and have tread blocks on the inner half which may give them better grip in some circumstances? They're deffo worse than the CPCs in rain and on roads with loose debris tho'.

[mark999]

Autoexpress tested LRR Tyres a couple of years ago and found the Goodyear To be the best. The Michelin energy saver+ As fitted to our gen3 Auris came last. A verdict I certainly agree with, they inspire no confidence in the wet.

I'll definitely be replacing them with non LRR tyres in due course. Either vector 4 seasons or sport contact 5s both of which I've been delighted with on my other cars.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Depends on priorities. If you drive with enthusiasm then get tyres with masses of grip.

If you drive a car for a commute wanting to save money in the bumper to bumper city crawl, then LRR tyres make a difference.

They made about 6 mpg difference in average commuting in my experience. Not a lot, but over 20,000 miles a year commute, it adds up.

Horses for courses.

But if you wanted a performance car to drive with enthusiasm, then why buy a 1 litre Yaris? Tyres will make no difference to the handling there.