Air Con

[miqe]

Hi all,

Well 5 years on and the air conditioning has stopped cooling. Dealer says it's an electrical fault.

Major bill to look for broken wire.

Anyone have any ideas to fix it?

[tarquin]

Hi There

Do you have climate control or the manual 3 dials On the climate version there are 15 fault codes that Toyota can look for

What are your symptoms

David

[Grumpy Cabbie]

At 5 years old the usual remedy would be a simple re-gas. But this sounds like something more serious and thus something likely to be investigated by the dealers assuming you're still within warranty and that the fault is a warranty item.

[tarquin]

A five year old iQ would have had only a 3year warranty

David

[miqe]

Yes, thanks it's an IQ2 with auto climate control.

Yes it's out of warranty either way 3 or 5 years. April 2009.

It blows a lot of hot air, as it were. But no cooling.

There was talk of replacing wiring looms?

And a possible full day in the workshop at £65 an hour.

They've re-gassed it but it didn't help.

No charge for that which was good of them and a free valet.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

They must know something else to suggest the wiring loom. Normally it's either a bust compressor or compressor clutch or a hole in the condenser radiator at the front.

Has the car ever been in an accident or even minor front end damage?

[tarquin]

They really should be doing a Diagnostic check for fault codes. There a possible 15 codes associated to the Air Con. One thing to try in a quiet environment is to start the car from cold ( first thing in the morning) its generally a bit " lumpy" being a 3 cylinder with the air con off. Then listening carefully to the engine, turn the air on. You should hear a dip in engine revs as the air con clutch takes up drive. This will at least tell you if if the compressor is running. Thats the trouble with dealers they don' t have Auto electricians anymore and rely on fault codes for item replacements and generally guess and if that didn't work guess again. They should know at least what conditions should be on each of the associated components. Not to just say needs a new wiring loom. The "V" shaped control panel in the car is quite a complex circuit and talks to the ECU bus there are a couple of other modules associated as well. But it should not be a guessing game. They should be able to narrow it down with the fault codes. You can but for £25 yourself the software and interface to read your own codes and if you find any let me have them and i will tell you what component they are associated to

Where in the country do you live

David

[bobkneale]

Is not the IQ air con unit designed to be a very small unit to fit in a small space, so may be (to an extent) a groundbreaking design, I don't like new designs they often have latent design faults that show up either quickly or after normal use !

Time will tell re the IQ Air Con !

[miqe]

Thanks everyone for the input.

No there haven't been any accidents Grumpy Caddy. We did have some fairly deep snow Christmas before last.

I've just tried listening for a dip in engine revs, David, and I can hear no change when hitting auto setting.

The fans blow hard when set to Low but at other temperature setting it's just blowing air as set on fan.

A few months ago there was a bit of a smell when the air con was working. I changed the internal air filter but it made little difference.

Then it seemed to fail although I'm not sure when exactly.

Tyneside is my domus.

I wouldn't know how to do the software reading but I could have a try.

Mike.

[tarquin]

The trouble with the iQ is that hardly anyone at the dealership has "worked " on them according to the service managers at my local. In fact a guy i know who works in the spares department rang me to ask if i had the part numbers for the mounting brackets for the tns510 because he couldn't find them on his system. Yes i had them and he got them

David

[tarquin]

Hi Miqe

Maybe the software is not the way for you to go. The "V " shaped control panel in the car only has 4 wires on it so just "talks" to the ECU when you make changes on the controls. You can set a condition on there and unplug it and it will still work ok. Burning smell could be the A/C clutch burnt out as there is no noticeable dip in revs when actuated. But if the compressor wasn't running then they would have noticed that when trying to re-gas it. Get them to check for fault codes. Must show up something

David

[miqe]

Thanks David,

I'll get back to them.

Mike.

[bobkneale]

My view - Comes to something when there is a debate about how to fix an simple Air con unit, keep things simple I say, so dealers don't have to learn a whole new way of diognosis for a air con unit ! Toyota could have used a standard air con unit and put it in the space where the passenger glove bag goes because there is plenty of room in an IQ for leg room as most people only carry two people.

[Soeley]

My view - Comes to something when there is a debate about how to fix an simple Air con unit, keep things simple I say, so dealers don't have to learn a whole new way of diognosis for a air con unit ! Toyota could have used a standard air con unit and put it in the space where the passenger glove bag goes because there is plenty of room in an IQ for leg room as most people only carry two people.

Ah, but if they had done that you wouldn't have the generous leg room that the front passenger now has, and it is that room that allows the front seat to go far enough forward to give a passenger in the rear some decent leg room.

[tarquin]

The thing is they all work on the same principle new compact or not. The climate control version works on the ECU bus which controls motorised valves whereas the manual version mechanically operates cables when the dials are operated. The compression and evaporation are still the same. Looking at the electronics of it, it is easy to fault find to a component/ components they just don't have staff to do it. Its possible that taking it to a good recommended A/C specialist may be of benefit rather than the main dealer who in my experience are jack of all trades and master of none. An awful lot of guessing goes on.

David

[bobkneale]

The thing is they all work on the same principle new compact or not. The climate control version works on the ECU bus which controls motorised valves whereas the manual version mechanically operates cables when the dials are operated. The compression and evaporation are still the same. Looking at the electronics of it, it is easy to fault find to a component/ components they just don't have staff to do it. Its possible that taking it to a good recommended A/C specialist may be of benefit rather than the main dealer who in my experience are jack of all trades and master of none. An awful lot of guessing goes on.

David

You are probably right there David, !

[tarquin]

Yes Bob

Going back a couple of posts, i mentioned about Mr T recommending a wiring loom change. Normally the only reason for that is when someone has fitted an oversized fuse in the circuit because of continuos. blowing and finally held up to the detriment of the loom which burns out requiring replacement. I did mention that on my peugeot i lost a 12v feed to the vane metering. In fact it was a either , tarnished or corroded connector at the point of connecting to the vane meter. It wasn't a failed wiring loom, they are essentially a bunch of wires generally bound and covered and and unless electrically compromised don't fail. Looking at the circuit there are at least 3 "wiring looms" associated with the A/c unit. Therefore i suggest they were trying to put him off as replacing all 3 is ludicrous.

David

[tarquin]

Another point on the re-gassing. First i dont know if you have the A/C on all the time. I personally do as i like cool air. You should have noticed a slow reduction in cooling as over time the gas absorbs moisture making it less efficient. This process can take a while till one day you notice it. Armed with the info that yours is hot all the time then they should of put the meters on it to check it and if needed toping up then do it, if it was blowing hot then one would suspect a leak and all the coolant gone. You would then try to pressurise it with nitrogen to check for leaks. Not to just attempt to re gas it. I am guessing they did nothing. Or they should have given feedback on the lines of " we tried to re gas it but the compressor or other components are faulty". Not to charge you for re gassing then say you need a new wiring loom

I will check with the guys at my local branch and see if they know if there is any A/C components they know about that have failed Let you know tomorrow

David

[bobkneale]

Yes Bob

Going back a couple of posts, i mentioned about Mr T recommending a wiring loom change. Normally the only reason for that is when someone has fitted an oversized fuse in the circuit because of continuos. blowing and finally held up to the detriment of the loom which burns out requiring replacement. I did mention that on my peugeot i lost a 12v feed to the vane metering. In fact it was a either , tarnished or corroded connector at the point of connecting to the vane meter. It wasn't a failed wiring loom, they are essentially a bunch of wires generally bound and covered and and unless electrically compromised don't fail. Looking at the circuit there are at least 3 "wiring looms" associated with the A/c unit. Therefore i suggest they were trying to put him off as replacing all 3 is ludicrous.

David

I have seen a few funny designs on various car wirings with all sorts of feeds coming from all over the place rather than in a logical order, it seems to me that in the wiring design phase things are forgotten then added afterwards and connected to whatever they can easily find to connect them to ! ?

[tarquin]

Hi Miqe

Just been in to see the Mechanics at Toyota. They said they have never changed any components in the A/C unit. They also said when they re-Gas your system they get a read out/print out of the amount gas that is present and the amount they put in. He also said with the A/C running , you should be able to hear it click in and out with your head under thd bonnet. He also said, the A/C may be working but the heater maybe over working so you cant feel the effects of the A/C. Following this up with to check your cabin filter as you can get this effect when its fairly blocked. As you have had the car 5yrs it is a possibility because they so often get missed at the service points. It is located in the passenger footwell on the right behind the A/C unit under the carpet and is opened by a catch and slides out.

Got a costing in case of compressor failure the item is £469 and the A/C clutch is £273 without fitting etc.

get the pollen cabin filter out first. You can leave it out for testing and if heavily clogged clean it temporarry and get a replacement.

David

[miqe]

Hi David,

Thank you for your efforts.

Yes I knew about the air filter and changed it last year when my wife was complaining about an unpleasant smell in the cabin.

It didn't help and it wasn't me, hopefully! The filter was pretty dusty and needed a change.

I think it must have been failing last year and possibly happened gradually. Which would make me think it was a gas problem and not the electrics.

I'll not be spending that on repairs. I'll just put up with it. It'll be like the old days when you just wound the windows down.

It's strange that the dealer diagnosed a wire failure. They must surely think everything else is functional.

Ho hum.

Mike.

[tarquin]

Hi Mike

Its worth another look at it as its been known big leaves do end up in there and clog it. Also worth a 5 min test to listen under the bonnet. My guy spoke with the other 5 technicians and all came up with the same answer. No known faults. Other that over heating due to blocked filter. They have replaced condensers and pipes etc but only due to accident damage. Sorry cant help much more being geographically so far away

David

[tarquin]

Oh one other, possible valve solenoid stuck but never seen one fail. They did have a laugh of the suggestion of a wiring harness replacement. Saying they would never do that unless the harness had physical damage due to accident or fire

David

[Soeley]

Could the funny smell you wife experienced have been caused by a slow leak of the refrigerant gas?

I'd be very tempted to take it to an independent Air con place for a second opinion. Just tell them it's not working and see what they come up with on there own.

[tarquin]

Hi Mark

According to my Mr T guy's they say that their machine prints out how much refridgerant was in there and how much they put in. Surely they would have noticed it low or empty and put dye in to check it

David