Head Gasket Failure What Are The Choices If Its Outside Warrenty

[AJS]

Ok so I have a 56 reg Avensis T Spirit 116k on the clock and over 7 years old. A few weeks ago i go the loss in coolant and the car wasn't blowing hot anymore. I've got the infamous white specks on my engine compartment and the engine temperature has just started to creep up ( it's about at half way). So much talk about this issue but what I want to know what are the options for those not covered by warranty.

will Toyota pay for anything as its outside extended warranty?

How much does it cost to 1. Buy a new engine 2.Replace the gasket?

I've seen costs from £1700 to £6k quoted. Why such a range.

I bought this off my brother as it was his company car and done maybe 40k in it. Full service history and I've really looked after it. So fed up that a big diesel should have such a fundamental and expensive fault. I had an old VW passat that I sold with 300k on the clock still going strong.

Adam

[Devon Aygo]

As the car is outside of the warranty extension Toyota will not contribute to any repair costs nor can you purchase the recon engine from Toyota as its use it limited to warranty repairs only.

The wide range in prices stem from the fact that neither the block nor head can be skimmed so once stripped if the block or head are warped you need a new one.

A brand new engine is going to be at least £5000+

A new bare block £2000+

A new bare head £1000+

Add to that all the modified EGR system, gasket sets, bearings, pistons, rings,etc and 22+hours for a full rebuild, prices can easily get to over £7000+ and are very difficult to rebuild, hence Toyota introduced a recon engine for warranty repairs to reduce costs and improve repair results.

[AJS]

So basically this car is now a right off because of one £60 part?

[AJS]

Let's look more positive. What would it cost if none of the the parts had to be replaced ? How much would it cost to get to that point. I mean if they start the work is there no going back?

[AJS]

Ok I'm determined to find another option. If I sourced a 2nd hand engine how much would a garage charge to fit it. I know i run the risk of this engine being just as duff but I have seen engines on eBay for £250?

[Devon Aygo]

Let's look more positive. What would it cost if none of the the parts had to be replaced ? How much would it cost to get to that point. I mean if they start the work is there no going back?

A head gasket repair would be around £1000-1500 assuming nothing was needed and ignoring the actual faulty parts pistons/rings/EGR, but once stripped if there is even the slightest mark/warp on the block or head all you could do is throw a head gasket at it and off load it quickly as the gasket will not last.

[Devon Aygo]

Ok I'm determined to find another option. If I sourced a 2nd hand engine how much would a garage charge to fit it. I know i run the risk of this engine being just as duff but I have seen engines on eBay for £250?

Engine in/out is around 12/15hours + all the external gaskets required to refit

[AJS]

What would that cost be for labour and fittings?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Labour costs alone using an independent garage would be £750, possibly more - assuming a labour rate of £50 per hour which could be conservative.

Last year labour rates for independent garages were reported as being over £40 per hour - http://www.rmif.co.uk/associations/iga/press-room/press-releases/motorists-are-nearly-halving-their-costs-by-trusting-independent-garages-17-04-13/?m=0

May be cheaper to consider a reconditioned engine from a third party

[Mike169]

Hi, without doing anything to it except a seriously good clean especially under the bonnet i'd as quickly as possibly get it back to a Toyota dealer and part ex. it against another car and don't get involved with this one.

Mike169

[AJS]

Part Ex for another Toyota! You must be joking I have an immaculate car outside that is now Junk. I've owned several Toyotas but this wil be my last. Once bitten twice shy. I know no car companies ever own up that they built a bomb but then that's why I don't trust them anymore. What are you likely to get as Part Ex for this age and mileage of car?

[t-spiritpete]

Hello mate,

just a thought, are you sure it's not just the water pump that's leaking and causing the white specks in the engine bay as water pump failure is pretty common on these engines. It may well be the head gasket but I wouldn't be looking at the worst case until full investigations have been carried out, apologies if you have already done this.

Regards Pete.

[AJS]

Hi Peter

No I'm not sure whats going wrong. I had a major service and no 'faults' were found and I said I had a coolant leak. If its a pump failure will it drain only when going or will it leak even when stationary. To be honest I've not used the car since this issue happened as I'm not sure what to do with it. Can a garage easily check if its a pump failure? Thanks for the comment as I was just thinking I had run out of options.

[AJS]

just did some research and looks as though my car is on a Toyota recall list for water pumps. Let's take it in and see what Toyota say :)

[AJS]

Only driven it twice since my issue. I've had no coolant leak. Will a water pump leak constantly or only when the car is up to heat?

[Devon Aygo]

just did some research and looks as though my car is on a Toyota recall list for water pumps. Let's take it in and see what Toyota say :)

Where did you see this as I have checked the Avensis recall list and water pump is not mentioned anywhere. Pop your chassis number or reg in on the Toyota recall checker to see if any recalls are outsanding here: http://www.toyota.co.uk/owners-info/recall-checker

[AJS]

NOTIFICATION OF RECALL ACTIVITY FOR TOYOTA AVENSIS, COROLLA AND PRIUS – APPROX. 75,000 UK VEHICLES

Toyota’s commitment to ensuring its vehicles meet the highest safety and quality standards includes detailed monitoring of vehicle performance. This applies not only to new vehicles, but also to those that have been in use for some time. The rigorous process is successful in alerting the company to circumstances where vehicle components or systems do not meet its strict standards and enabling corrective measures to be taken.

Today, (14 November) Toyota GB registered recalls for certain Avensis and Corolla models (July 2001 to March 2009) and for Prius (July 2003 to April 2009) with the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA). All models are previous generation, i.e. not new models currently on sale.

What are the issues?

On certain Avensis, Corolla and Prius models (July 2001 to April 2009) there is a possibility of an issue with a component1 in the steering system, prompting a knocking or rattling and possibly a reduction in steering response1. In such circumstances, the vehicle will remain safe to drive.

There have been nine reported cases of this issue in Europe and no reports of any associated accidents.

1: Due to insufficient hardness treatment of some of the extension shafts, the splines that connect the extension shaft to the steering gearbox may deform if the steering wheel is frequently and forcefully turned to the full left or full right position while driving at slow speeds. This deformation may create increased internal clearance and the splines may eventually, over time, wear out.

Toyota dealers will inspect the extension shaft to determine if it needs to be replaced and, if confirmed, will replace it. The inspection and repair will take approximately one hour.

Also, on Prius models there is a possibility the water pump in the hybrid system may fail2. Should this happen it will be indicated by a warning light being illuminated on the dashboard.

There have been three reported cases in Europe. There are no reported accidents related to this issue.

2: There is an electrically driven water pump that circulates coolant through the hybrid components. There is a possibility that the electric motor installed in the water pump may stop functioning, leading to illumination of various warning lights in the instrument panel. In limited instances, the water pump electric power supply circuit fuse may open, causing the hybrid system to stop while the vehicle is being driven.

What will be done?

Customer satisfaction is of paramount importance to Toyota. Consequently,Toyota has decided to conduct recall activity to replace the hybrid system water pump and check steering shaft performance on the affected cars.

In full compliance with VOSA requirements, Toyota GB will contact the owners of all affected vehicles within the next six weeks, asking them to make an appointment to bring their car to their nearest Toyota dealer. It is possible that some Prius will require attention for both issues.

According to model, the dealer will replace the hybrid system water pump and/or inspect the steering shaft. If the steering shaft does not meet Toyota inspection criteria, it will be repaired.

The water pump replacement should take no more than an hour-and-a-half. If required, the steering shaft repair should be completed in an hour. This work will be carried out free of charge.

[AJS]

Just put in my Re and it's come up for recall. Might no solve my issue but I can get Toyota to look at it for free.

[Devon Aygo]

NOTIFICATION OF RECALL ACTIVITY FOR TOYOTA AVENSIS, COROLLA AND PRIUS – APPROX. 75,000 UK VEHICLES

Toyota’s commitment to ensuring its vehicles meet the highest safety and quality standards includes detailed monitoring of vehicle performance. This applies not only to new vehicles, but also to those that have been in use for some time. The rigorous process is successful in alerting the company to circumstances where vehicle components or systems do not meet its strict standards and enabling corrective measures to be taken.

Today, (14 November) Toyota GB registered recalls for certain Avensis and Corolla models (July 2001 to March 2009) and for Prius (July 2003 to April 2009) with the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA). All models are previous generation, i.e. not new models currently on sale.

What are the issues?

On certain Avensis, Corolla and Prius models (July 2001 to April 2009) there is a possibility of an issue with a component1 in the steering system, prompting a knocking or rattling and possibly a reduction in steering response1. In such circumstances, the vehicle will remain safe to drive.

There have been nine reported cases of this issue in Europe and no reports of any associated accidents.

1: Due to insufficient hardness treatment of some of the extension shafts, the splines that connect the extension shaft to the steering gearbox may deform if the steering wheel is frequently and forcefully turned to the full left or full right position while driving at slow speeds. This deformation may create increased internal clearance and the splines may eventually, over time, wear out.

Toyota dealers will inspect the extension shaft to determine if it needs to be replaced and, if confirmed, will replace it. The inspection and repair will take approximately one hour.

Also, on Prius models there is a possibility the water pump in the hybrid system may fail2. Should this happen it will be indicated by a warning light being illuminated on the dashboard.

There have been three reported cases in Europe. There are no reported accidents related to this issue.

2: There is an electrically driven water pump that circulates coolant through the hybrid components. There is a possibility that the electric motor installed in the water pump may stop functioning, leading to illumination of various warning lights in the instrument panel. In limited instances, the water pump electric power supply circuit fuse may open, causing the hybrid system to stop while the vehicle is being driven.

What will be done?

Customer satisfaction is of paramount importance to Toyota. Consequently,Toyota has decided to conduct recall activity to replace the hybrid system water pump and check steering shaft performance on the affected cars.

In full compliance with VOSA requirements, Toyota GB will contact the owners of all affected vehicles within the next six weeks, asking them to make an appointment to bring their car to their nearest Toyota dealer. It is possible that some Prius will require attention for both issues.

According to model, the dealer will replace the hybrid system water pump and/or inspect the steering shaft. If the steering shaft does not meet Toyota inspection criteria, it will be repaired.

The water pump replacement should take no more than an hour-and-a-half. If required, the steering shaft repair should be completed in an hour. This work will be carried out free of charge.

As stated above the Avensis was recalled for steering shaft issues "On certain Avensis, Corolla and Prius models (July 2001 to April 2009) there is a possibility of an issue with a component1 in the steering system, prompting a knocking or rattling and possibly a reduction in steering response1. In such circumstances, the vehicle will remain safe to drive"

Only Prius was recalled for the Hybrid system water pump "Also, on Prius models there is a possibility the water pump in the hybrid system may fail2. Should this happen it will be indicated by a warning light being illuminated on the dashboard"

PM your reg # or chassis # and I will cjeck to see what recall is outstanding on your car.

[AJS]

Yes I should read things in more detail :(. Well back to square 1. Might see if a local garage will replace my pump for a reasonable price and see if its that. If not then part ex here I come.

[Roker]

If it's the head gasket, why can you not take the head off and get it skimmed? and install with a new gasket.

[AJS]

Please read the thread. Price could be between 2 to 7K. More than the car is worth. What I have read is that once the head goes a complete rebuilt is often required. A very difficult job.

[Devon Aygo]

If it's the head gasket, why can you not take the head off and get it skimmed? and install with a new gasket.

Neither the cylinder head nor block can be skimmed on an #AD series engine as there is tolerance to do so, if they are warped or damaged they are scrap.

[buklau111]

Urrr..... Had the same problem with a Golf. Oil everywhere in the engine compartment. Our brand new driveway was engulfed with oil. What we did was take it to our mechanic, dont know what he did but he said he is putting a sealant inside the gasket. Cost £100 and it was done no more oil and temperature was fine. I dont really care what happen to the car after and if it broke down since I sold it a week later but the person did not come back, hopefully meaning the car was running fine. Maybe if you live in London I can refer you to the actual mechanic. Its much more cheaper than actually getting new engine or replacing the gasket leak or gasket.

[buklau111]

Part Ex for another Toyota! You must be joking I have an immaculate car outside that is now Junk. I've owned several Toyotas but this wil be my last. Once bitten twice shy. I know no car companies ever own up that they built a bomb but then that's why I don't trust them anymore. What are you likely to get as Part Ex for this age and mileage of car?

Personally company cars are the worst to buy. Their values in the auctions are really low. They get trashed out since the owner couldent care less since their not going to be the one to sell it or anything. I would never recommend buying a company car. Always buy cars which were given back for part ex at main dealer or on a 3 year lease.