Hello And Help! Rav Dead!

[ClaireH]

Hi all, hope I'm not being too presumptuous by joining and immediately asking for help!

I have a 2002 Rav4 VVTi, 2.0 litre petrol which has been the most reliable and amazing car I've owned for a long time (since my 1993 Corrola in fact, but that's another story!) but it's apparently now dead :(

Background as follows: Recon gear box 8 months ago, no issues with it at all since then, drove like a dream, economical, fun etc etc. 106k on the clock and in immaculate condition for it's age- my pride and joy.

A couple of months ago, for various personal reasons (no, not driving ban! LOL!) I had to park it up and leave it- started it once a week for the first month, all fine, then, to be honest, forgot...

Three weeks later went to start it, Battery was dead. Tried to start it from a jump pack- it turned over and tried to start but just didn't quite catch. Thought the jump pack needed charging so charged it and tried again- absolutely NOTHING- not a whisper of an attempt to turn over. Key turns, it clicks, then nothing.

Tried jumping it from another car- same thing.

Local garage came and had a look- they couldn't jump start it either so towed it away to try to get to the bottom of it.

They called me today to say they have absolutely no idea what is wrong but they cannot get it to start- they have tried bump starting it- it just 'locks up' (I'm assuming they mean engine and brakes) and they have checked the starter motor, aux belt, tried taking the spark plugs out - basically all the 'obvious' stuff- they cannot understand what is going on or why but say it's behaving like it's ceased.

I know it's a long shot, but does anyone have any ideas or tips for what it might be? I really can't afford to pay the garage to strip it down to diagnose it... but it's looking like it's that or scrap it now :(

Many thanks in anticipation of some ideas!

Claire :D

[gjnorthall]

Theres a lot of info here but not a lot of detail. Does the engine now turn over on the starter - and does the cranking appear normal? It sound like when the garage tried to bump start the car - the wheels locked up which would suggest the engine is seized. It's important to establish if the engine turns over freely. Does it turn over if you attempt to turn the crankshaft pulley with a spanner?

If it does turn over, then it's a systematic approach to establish why it won't start. The first thing is to extract any fault codes.

If it has seized then there can be many reasons but before going any further, can we establish if the engine is infant seized? This particular engine is fairly bullet proof and doesn't have a timing belt which, on other cars, can fail with dire consequences.

I'd really worry about the competency of a garage that can't establish whats going on on what's a pretty simple engine.

[Grumpy stumpy]

My guess something to do with the engine immobiliser , my lexus the Battery went flat and when charged up again would turn over but not fire, you had to leave key in the ignition and on for 6 mins then turn off and remove key then place back into ignition turn key and started, it reset the immobiliser, not sure if the Rav has a similar system but may have. I had a sticker under bonnet telling me what to do and was also in hand book. Someone else may be able to help but worth a look in hand book.

[ClaireH]

Thanks for your replies folks!

I think I should have been clearer in my original post- yes, the engine is ceased- what we/they can't work out is why- they have tried to start it 'by hand' having taken the points and auxiliary belt off with no joy :(

It's not that they CAN'T work out what is wrong with it- I have absolute faith in them and am positive that they COULD... it's that they know my financial situation and recognise that I can't afford to spent hundreds of pounds for them to systematically strip the engine to work out what the issue is- they did the 'obvious, basic, usual' stuff- checked the starter motor, Battery, whatever (I'm not mechanic as you may have guessed!) and then stopped and called me to say 'this could cost you a lot of money- we don't want to cost you loads of money without checking with you first, what do you want us to do?'

I have asked them to hold fire until I've done some research to try and find out what it's likely to be given the circumstances- bearing in mind it had been running absolutely fine and hadn't missed a beat before the Battery went dead- I guess I was hoping someone would say 'oh yeah, this is a Rav glitch, tap the X and blow on the Y, say abracadabra and hey presto, fixed!'

I would be eternally grateful for any ideas that anyone can give me! :)

[ClaireH]

Oh, and no, it does't turn over when they try to start it 'by hand' either! ;)

[gjnorthall]

If the engine won't turn over on the starter motor or by hand (?) and you've already said that the wheels lock up when you try to bump start it - it's well and truly seized. There can be several reasons including oil starvation or some sort of internal failure but an engine that's seized tight isn't going to be a cheap repair. Unfortunately some dismantling (and expenditure) needs to be done to get at the root cause and establish what needs to be remedied.

Was the oil level low or had it been in place for a long time? The camshaft on these engines can seize because of lubrication issues and on a chain driven engine - this will give the appearance of a completely seized engine. The first thing to establish (by some stripping) is whether it's a camshaft or crankshaft / piston issue - after that it would be a major strip down job. There are options, depending on what's failed - including fitting a second hand engine and you may as well start with the worst case scenario!

[firemac]

Seems very odd that an engine that was previously in regular use should sieze solid after being parked up for 3 or 4 weeks. Cars are left at airports that long and start easily enough afterwards.

I'm no mechanic but I can't help wondering if the clutch has siezed on the flywheel. I've heard of this happening with barn finds, etc.and they can be freed by towing them behind another vehicle - brutal but often effective.

If not that then something really weird has happened that the poster doesn't know about or realise has occurred.

[gjnorthall]

A car is normally started with the clutch engaged - wouldn't make any difference if seized - a car can still be started. Trying to bump start a car that's apparently seized isn't a good idea - it's pretty brutal and you risk more damage. I'd have to agree that it would be unusual for an engine to seize solid in the scenario described. Unfortunately we can guess forever and some expenditure is needed to identify the problem.

[firemac]

A car is normally started with the clutch engaged - wouldn't make any difference if seized - a car can still be started. Trying to bump start a car that's apparently seized isn't a good idea - it's pretty brutal and you risk more damage. I'd have to agree that it would be unusual for an engine to seize solid in the scenario described. Unfortunately we can guess forever and some expenditure is needed to identify the problem.

Of course, you're right. What I was thinking though was that if the clutch were seized to the flywheel then if the g/box had a major fault that could prevent the engine turning?

Far-fetched series of coincidences maybe but the scenario seems odd anyway.......

You can no doubt tell that I ain't no mechanic!!

[Conrod]

Just a suggestion....has the garage taken the starter motor off the vehicle ? As if it's jammed in mesh with the flywheel teeth, it would give the impression that the engine was seized.

[ClaireH]

Many thanks to all of you for your replies and ideas- please keep them coming no matter how 'unlikely' or 'far fetched' you might think they are- with this car it seems 'unlikely and far fetched' are it's middle name... running perfectly to ceased in a month having been sat 'resting' is pretty unlikely and far fetched, after all!

I don't think it's to do with the oil- it was checked and topped up about a week before I took it off the road and as far as I know, nothing else unusual or untoward has happened- unless someone has been maliciously 'tinkering' with it from underneath whilst it's been parked up, but that is VERY unlikely!

I would sincerely hope it's not a gearbox issue having had it re conditioned about eight months ago- but actually if it IS, then it's still under guarantee so I will definitely get that ascertained!

I'm going to print this thread off on Monday and take it into my garage for them to read all your thoughts and ideas- who knows maybe there is something that they have overlooked or not thought of (after all, amazing as they are, they are also human!) and talk to them about costs for a 'worst case scenario', which I recon would be them stripping the engine down, finding it can't be fixed and then having to put a new engine in.... if they can do all that for £1500 or less then I will ask them to fix it, if not... any one want an immaculate '02 Rav for spares or repair?! :(

[gjnorthall]

The engine will turn over with the starter in mesh, albeit a little more difficult than normal, and it was noted initially that the starter motor had been checked. It's highly unlikely that it's a gearbox issue - presumably they've tried to turn the engine with the clutch depressed ie with the engine disconnected from the gearbox. Worth double checking though. The devil is in the detail and it would be interesting to know if the engine is locked solid or if it's possible to rock the crankshaft pulley any amount. Whatever - a minimum amount of money needs spending to establish the nature of the problem - this will allow a decision to be made on most cost effective path forward.