What's Your Touring Sports Hybrid Mpg?

[Nicolai]

I think it is, because if I look at the center console Toyota Touch screen with the energy graphic, th constant arrows between the HV and theICE are bright green (as shown on photo above). Is the car is charging the HV, the colour is more turquoise /bluish. Same colour as the HV battery.

This picture explains it well:

Yes, this picture says to me the ICE is charging the HV Battery.

Yeah, but does it also tell you that the HV assists the ICE?

I actually thought the warmup stages would not be needed (or significantly shorter) in the summer time due to the higher temperature. That why I expect to get good MPG. If I am not mistaken I was able to drive in EV without the ICE. So I assumed i had warmed up fully.

My interpretation is no, as it does not show either the ICE or electric driving the wheels. Is the car stationary or moving when this picture was taken?

Energy going from the ICE to drive the wheels would be shown on the leftmost vertical line between the wheels and the energy going from the electric motor to drive the wheels would be shown on the second-from-left 'T'-shaped line between the wheels and electric motor. As both are grey, it tells me no energy is going to the wheels from either source.

If the electric motor was contributing to driving the wheels, I'd expect the line on the right that is green to change direction (and possibly colour) to indicate that the Battery is supplying energy to the electric motor and then also the 'T'-shaped line would also be illuminated.

Further, to get into the situation where the ICE and electric motor work in tandem to drive the wheels, my opinion is that you need to have 3 more bars showing on the Battery graphic. In the state shown above the HSD's priority will be to use some of the energy from the ICE to charge the battery rather than deplete the battery further using electric energy to drive the wheels. You will need to cruise for quite a bit to raise the battery to this level.

Once it reaches that level (of 6+ bars), I'd then expect to see that right-hand line to start alternating between flowing left (driving) then right--possibly changing colour--(charging) constantly once you were in a cruising situation.

It strikes me from the way you are wording your descriptions of how you are driving your car is that you are driving in a manner that actively tries to keep the HSD using electric as much as possible. Once again I will reiterate, that as counter-intutitive as it seems, you have to stop doing this, as it not efficient and will be costing you fuel economy. Instead you should be doing all you can to ensure that battery is at 6 bars and stays there as much as possible. If you need to use the ICE to do this, then do it. You will find, then, that you are driving in a much more normal manner and you do not need to pay particular attention to which motor is driving the wheels, except out of interest.

I hope this helps.

My mistake. I did notice a green "T-shape" from HV to wheels- this means the HV is assisting the wheels. The picture show is a stock photo and not my car.

[Nicolai]

just returned from the commute: going there: 70 mpg. Going home: 89.26.

I did try to keep the ICE on more although some places the car went in EV. Going home I descend, so I am able to regenerate energy so it not too bad. I noticed that the car charged the HV even though it had 5 bars. Then this happened, according to the energy flow, only the ICE was driving the wheels, however, I still got an instead readout of between 70 and 85 mpg. Was surprised to see that.

[Fecn]

just returned from the commute: going there: 70 mpg. Going home: 89.26.

Can you describe your commute a little for comparison? How far is it? Is it motorway, back roads, congestion etc.... I'm just wandering how I get on. I've had 99.9mpg displayed on a 7-mile journey before, but it was mostly downhill (since I live at the top, everywhere is downhill from me).

[Nicolai]

It's 10 miles each way and I guess you can say that quite a lot of it is on back roads (I have deliberately chosen to use the back roads instead of the motorway, as the back roads give better mpg). As I wrote earlier going there means going up a bit and then going back is mostly straight or descending.

[Nicolai]

OT: Do you have "covers" on the back of your car between the boot and outer part of the bumper?

[Joseph D]

My mistake. I did notice a green "T-shape" from HV to wheels- this means the HV is assisting the wheels. The picture shown is a stock photo and not my car.

On my energy display if the "T-shape" is green, it means the HSD is regenerating power. If it is driving the wheels the "T-shape" is orange.

EDIT: I have just reviewed the video way back on page 1, and it looks like your graphic is green when driving the wheels. I think on your graphic, what is more important is the arrowheads on the line that indicate the direction of the energy flow. For my own information I'd be interested to know if the "T-shape" changes colour when the arrow points to the electric motor (indicating regeneration).

just returned from the commute: going there: 70 mpg. Going home: 89.26.

I did try to keep the ICE on more although some places the car went in EV. Going home I descend, so I am able to regenerate energy so it not too bad. I noticed that the car charged the HV even though it had 5 bars. ...

That is more like it.

If the car goes into EV of it own accord, that is ok. Descending a hill is one of the places to regenerate and/or glide. Glide if you can hold your speed and use the regenerate to control your speed. Brake lightly if you need more control. Just remember the HSD's aim is to keep the Battery at 6 bars, so I'm not surprised that the HSD charged the HV even though it had 5 bars.

... Then this happened, according to the energy flow, only the ICE was driving the wheels, however, I still got an instant readout of between 70 and 85 mpg [4.03 - 3.32 l/100 km]. Was surprised to see that.

The ICE can run pretty lean and economical as long as the Battery has a healthy charge. This is what I was meaning when I said use the ICE even though it seems counter-intuitive. I'm not surprised by those readings - I often see 2.5 - 3.9 l/100 km (113.0 - 72.4 mpg) and this is doing 96 - 104 km (60 - 65 mph) on the motorway too.

Hopefully now you will continue to see more of the high 70's (high 3's - low 4's l/100 km)

Keep up the good work.

:) :) :)

[Nicolai]

With a depleted Battery I got 63 mpg on the return this afternoon :-(

[Fecn]

With a depleted battery I got 63 mpg on the return this afternoon :-(

You should turn that frown upside down - I only got 59.3mpg* on my journey home today (but 76mpg* on the way in)

* Dashboard MPG... deduct 10% for real-life figures.

[Joseph D]

With a depleted battery I got 63 mpg on the return this afternoon :-(

63 mpg sounds pretty good, but I'd like to understand how you ended up with a depleted Battery, as that will hit you on your next run. Remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. What you gain on the swings you will loose on the roundabouts.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

With a depleted battery I got 63 mpg on the return this afternoon :-(

63 mpg sounds pretty good, but I'd like to understand how you ended up with a depleted Battery, as that will hit you on your next run. Remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. What you gain on the swings you will loose on the roundabouts.

You don't get a depleted Battery unless you're trying to override the hybrid system by forcing the car into electric. By trying to do that you get lower economy.

I think this is one of those cases where you can lead a horse to water.....

[Fecn]

OT: Do you have "covers" on the back of your car between the boot and outer part of the bumper?

Im not sure what you mean by that, so I'm guessing the answer is No (unless you mean the boot lip protector thing - the shiny bit of metal on the boot lip).... but you can see the back of my car in my avatar if that helps at all.

[Nicolai]

Yeah, that's it- the boot lip protector.m I always keep crutches in my boot due to my bad walking ability. Unfortunately, they have twice fallen out the boot, denting the boot lip finish and as a result, I now have 2 black dents in the lip (luckily the lip is plastic so it won't corrode. Still buggers me though. I have been thinking about the boot lip / and "door panel" protectors as well, however, I'm not sure if they actually cover enough. I think I'll end up getting them, though.

[Nicolai]

With a depleted battery I got 63 mpg on the return this afternoon :-(

63 mpg sounds pretty good, but I'd like to understand how you ended up with a depleted Battery, as that will hit you on your next run. Remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. What you gain on the swings you will loose on the roundabouts.

I didn't knowingly force it. It was relatively quickly recharged though (regen at roundabouts etc). Soon we'll go to the fjord (70 mile trip, half of which is motorway at 70 and 80). I'll try to let the do it's thing, set the cruise for 70 and see what happens.

[Nicolai]

Just filled up: best tank so far: 62.4 mpg. I have noticed, however, that the OBC has been more off lately. Usually it overestimates by approximately 3 mpg, but lately it has been by 4.5 mpg.

Also, I enter the same data in Fuelly and Spritmonitor but there's a slight variation in the overall / all time mpg (as can be seen in my signature.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Nicolai

[Nicolai]

Yesterday ignoring the energy levels, on my commute I only got 63 mpg....

I guess on that exact commute EV is favorable.

[Nicolai]

Anymore feedback on my last posts would be appreciated...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

We've mentioned what to do, yet most posts indicate you're not following these suggestions. We have a phrase, " you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Reports of depleting the Battery indicates that the car has been over-ridden to stay in electric longer than the car would like; the Battery will only be depleted when the car is looking after itself in heavy traffic. Any other time the driver is encouraging the car to stay on electric.

But at the end of the day, it's your car and you can do what you want with it, but equally when you ask the forums assistance on how to get best economy and then ignore these comments, what are we supposed to think?

[Nicolai]

I don't ignore them: I really try to follow them. I think it may be easier to hit the sweet spots in the Prius due to better aero dynamic efficiency.

Fact remains: when I keep the ICE on all the time, my mpg is low compared to what I can sometimes achieve by using EV more frequently. Also, you talking about gliding, however, Toyota UK advices people to regen going down a hill. I think it just goes to show that for different terrains, different driving styles come out on top. As I said, we're going on a 70 mile trip soon (A and B roads along with motorway). I'll try to just drive sensibly and see how the car does.

But as I said: it is very difficult to hit the gliding spot as well as the ICE 80 mpg instant spot. If you get it and then move your foot ever so slightly, it's gone.

[Joseph D]

I don't ignore them: I really try to follow them. I think it may be easier to hit the sweet spots in the Prius due to better aero dynamic efficiency.

Fact remains: when I keep the ICE on all the time, my mpg is low compared to what I can sometimes achieve by using EV more frequently. Also, you talking about gliding, however, Toyota UK advices people to regen going down a hill. I think it just goes to show that for different terrains, different driving styles come out on top. As I said, we're going on a 70 mile trip soon (A and B roads along with motorway). I'll try to just drive sensibly and see how the car does.

But as I said: it is very difficult to hit the gliding spot as well as the ICE 80 mpg instant spot. If you get it and then move your foot ever so slightly, it's gone.

One thing that is apparent to me with HSD's, is that doing the same thing over the same route will sometimes give different results. Obviously there is something different between one and the other, but to the driver that difference is not always obvious or indeed apparent. I say this with about 7 years experience driving Gen II Prii.

The advice to not force the car to drive on EV equally applies to not to force the car to drive on the ICE. While you might think that sounds contradictory, it is not as absurd as it sounds. Really, what is needed in any given situation is to press the accelerator to achieve the acceleration or cruise power you need. Allow the car to decide which motor, or combination of, to use for best economy and power.

As far as gliding goes, it was hard for me at first to achieve. However, the more I did it the easier it became and now it is more or less instinctive. I do not do SHM (super highway mode) which is an advance form of glide that you do at higher speed. I've found that gliding is possible (once the car is warmed up and in stage 4) at up to 67 km/h (42 mph) -- your speed might possibly be higher due to difference between my car and yours. Therefore gliding is best used around town and back roads rather than motorway. Achieving good consumption figures on the motorway I find is a matter of picking a speed and sticking with it, accelerating briskly and anticipating what is coming up. If traffic is travelling a constant speed stick in behind another car (don't be the leader) and you can benefit by others taking on the head wind. However, if the traffic ahead is the speed up/slow down variety, then back off a couple of km/h slower and stick with it. This will allow a buffer space to open up ahead of you which will in turn give you greater scope for slowing as you approach lights or intersections etc.

After all is said and done, the "best way" to drive an HSD is not an exact science. There are rules to help, but you need to develop you own "instinct" over time.

Finally, please be encouraged, you are obviously doing it pretty right in achieving 60+ tanks. Keep doing what works and try adapting that which doesn't. I feel that you will only improve over time.

As we say often, try not to get too obsessed with your consumption at the risk of loosing the enjoyment of driving your car. Keep up the good work.