Costs A £1 To Park And Charge Your Plug In Car Now

[RunningInPleasePass]

I'm up in County Durham and have just noticed that Durham Council are now charging a £1 to park and charge your plug in car where it used to be free, even in free car parks, is this the norm?

The local paper says it's to stop plug in owners hogging the parking bays at busy times!

[FROSTYBALLS]

In Birmingham one has to be a member of 'Plugged-in Midlands' - annual subscription £24. On street charging points offer up to 3 hours free parking, but the vehicle has to be charging, rather than just parked - penalty charges apply. Off street charging points are subject to the relevant parking charges.

[Cyker]

Thin end of the wedge mate; I've always said enjoy the freebies while they last - As electric/PIH's become more popular those freebies will start to disappear...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I get paying £1 to fully charge a Leaf whilst you're at work or shopping and get 80/90 miles topped up over the 4 hours. But paying £1 to charge a PIP is a bit rich and hardly worth even hunting down a charge point. The extra time and/or fuel seeking out the space (even if it's on a higher level in the car park or the next street) is just not worth the hassle.

I wonder if it's more to do with the council getting greedy than the reason they state. Perhaps it would have been more proactive to install further chargers if the existing ones are 'hogged', rather than just hitting a charge to restrict usage. But then that's what councils do.

Logic and common sense just don't exist in their brains sometimes. :)

[Cyker]

It's just about money, but at least they have a slight argument in that installing the equipment and supplying the electricity has a cost (Even if they are overcharging ;))

Here, there used to be free parking on Sundays, but they abolished that a year or so ago. Now, the streets get much more congested as everyone parks on the single yellow lines and school zig zags to avoid paying the car park charges (Which have also gone up coincidentally!).

This makes all the surrounding roads that much more hazardous because they are all double-lined with cars instead of having virtually no cars, leaving the roads very narrow. Ironically, this was why the previous council originally instated the free sunday parking thing many years ago in the first place!!

[PeteB]

I guess a lot of people who run electric cars outside places like London will just charge them at home.

But for those who rely on a boost, there a cloud on the horizon - see this recent BBC NEws article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28054738

A lot of the MasterPark car parks in London have the EV charging bays near the entrance, and they charge an annual subscription only (or they did last time I was down that way). AT that time, they were nearly always full of little G-Wiz EVs!

[Whitewagon]

Let's face it the current crop of EV's are no more green than a conventional car, they are not cheaper to buy and will not be any cheaper to run than the current Eco diesels. Anyone who buys one for "green" reasons is self delusional. There may be a limited market for them in cities but as soon as you have to pay to plug them in the cost savings are gone. Most manufacturers build them to offset their emissions not because they are a profitable alternative to cars with internal combustion engines.

[Chris Dance]

GC sums it up well. Is there a time restriction on how long you can park on the charging point? If the charge was a £1 to park while the car is charged and it gives you time to do shoppingfor an hour the charge is not too bad. If it is a £1 just to charge and no waiting time that is a council rip off. If I had a PIP I probably only charge it at home if the time at a council charge point is restricted. Takes the gloss off buying a PIP or Leaf I think.

[RunningInPleasePass]

GC sums it up well. Is there a time restriction on how long you can park on the charging point? If the charge was a £1 to park while the car is charged and it gives you time to do shoppingfor an hour the charge is not too bad. If it is a £1 just to charge and no waiting time that is a council rip off. If I had a PIP I probably only charge it at home if the time at a council charge point is restricted. Takes the gloss off buying a PIP or Leaf I think.

I think the £1 charge is on top of the normal car parking cost.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/southdurham/crook/11296096.Revealed__The_hardly_used_electric_car_charging_points_costing_taxpayers_up_to___4_000/

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Let's face it the current crop of EV's are no more green than a conventional car, they are not cheaper to buy and will not be any cheaper to run than the current Eco diesels. Anyone who buys one for "green" reasons is self delusional. There may be a limited market for them in cities but as soon as you have to pay to plug them in the cost savings are gone. Most manufacturers build them to offset their emissions not because they are a profitable alternative to cars with internal combustion engines.

With the greatest of respect I'd say you were wrong as do the greater minds who has designed the EVs.

You say people buy them for 'green' reasons. What are they? What are the costs of inner city pollution? I have a lung condition caused by taxi work - breathing in fumes for 10 years. It has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that that is the cause. How much does this cost the NHS each and every year? Just for me. Then there are the stats that indicate the increase of asthma sufferers in city areas. How much do they all cost because of their condition caused by petrol and mainly diesel emissions? A Euro 5 diesel emits 20x more harmful emissions than a petrol. A Euro4 diesel is about 200 times more. So the costs of comparing diesel and BEVs are not limited to the cost of the car or the fuel.

I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion but equally to show facts you might want to post links to websites that back up your fact. Jeremy Clarksons opinions from Top Gear don't count :)

So BEVs are not really cheaper to run overall, but then which car is. What they save in fuel costs they cost extra to buy, but you will save on second hand - just. But the fumes and pollution in cities are where a BEV excels. If your kids or family or any friends suffer from asthma then chances are it's the pollution (though not always). That's where BEVs excel. I used 100% renewable electricity so if I were to run a Leaf or BEV, then I would be creating zero emissions at tail pipe.

And finally, just in case you think hydrogen is the fuel of the future (as Jeremy Clarkson does), then I would indicate politely that they actually contain a Battery to propel them about 20 miles whilst the fuel cell warms up. Also, many critics of BEVs always point out to the 'rare' earths involved in the production of the Battery (whilst forgetting about similar in emission control on a petrol/diesel and also the massive pollution involved in refining oil), but these would be used in the same Battery in a fuel cell car and also as previously advised on here before, a fuel cell needs s**t loads of platinum in them. And I mean a big huge amount of platimum, as in about £30,000's worth! That's why you can't buy a fuel cell car at the moment.

So no way to fuel a car is perfect, but other than range issues, refueling time and cost, BEVs are the cleaner overall. Links to confirm this have been provided in the past if you care to check them.

(and no, this is not a personal dig at you or anyone ;) )

[Whitewagon]

Grumpy, it may not have seemed so from my post but you are preaching to the converted; well sort of any way. I don't own an EV nor will I because their mileage limitation doesn't suit my type of motoring. I also agree entirely with you on city pollution (family members do suffer from Asthma) and that the major problem is caused by diesel engined vehicles, even modern ones with a DPF (I did the research too, shame is on the government for not emphasising this issue to the public).

My main points are that, localised emissions aside, they are no greener to produce than a conventional vehicle, most people will use electricity from the National Grid which still uses fossil fuels and that the big manufacturers produce them for reasons of their own not necessarily because they are "green" or make a profit.

[puckdrop]

At the risk of going slightly off-topic, it's far more "straight forward" to provide a central source of power ( whatever source ) than convert millions of cars.

So at the time where we are mostly BEV's or PIH's, we can dramatically reduce pollution "overnight" by swapping out the central power production system - eg. from Coal power stations, to solar, fusion, or whatever new power source. Then "overnight" the pollution impact of those millions of cars is reduced by the nature of the power having come from the one source.

Personally, I have a G2 Prius with 160k on the clock. In the next two to three years, I may look at the current Prius plug-in model second hand, or even a Prius V because of family demands. I used to be a diesel-head, but they're far too complex in terms of what _could_ go wrong now.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Exactly.

And even with coal power, the pollution is not pumped out 5 feet from pedestrians faces.

So as grid generation cleans up, so do electric cars. We're also not sending £billions to oil barons in areas of the world who really do not like us, what we do or what we stand for. Saying that, with 15% of our gas coming from Russia, things don't seem to be improving with that change. Perhaps we should cut our gas use by 15% and buy the remainder from Norway who seem to be much more of a true than fair weather friend.

There is no easy or quick answer. But every journey starts with a single step. If I clean my house emissions using renewable (or nuclear if you so wish) and use an electric car, then you've done your bit. To me it's not about global warming but local emissions and air quality.

And glad you moved away from diesel. The fact that people still want to drive a noisy, clattery thing and think they're cool just shows the power of the ad man. Next we'll be eating McDonalds and thinking they're healthy or that Nestle really do care for their coffee growers :)

[timberwolf]

I always thought it better to be able to control and filter the nasty products from burning fossil fuels at a central location than inefficiently from millions of vehicle engines.

Supposedly there are people who apparently see the white fluffy clouds emitted from coal-fired power stations and they think it is pollution when it just water vapour. That's not to say burning coal doesn't cause pollution but that it is probably much easier to control on a fixed installation.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The same people thing the white fluffy mist coming out the back of a car is pollution too, rather than the invisible nasties they can't see.

[timberwolf]

White clouds of smoke from the exhaust = blown head gasket ;)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

White clouds of smoke from the exhaust = blown head gasket ;)

It does on a warm day when the car is warmed up. Doesn't mean that on a cold damp morning at 7.30am, otherwise all the cars sat next to me at the traffic lights have a problem.

[Dapple]

I believe in hybrids having bought my first in 2002 and currently have 2 parked on the drive. I have converted other family members too. I wouldn't buy one new. I let the first owner take the depreciation hit and then I can make the savings without paying this.

I too have formerly made the mistake of running dirty diesels but no more.

However, and to move nearer back to topic, I believe now is the golden time to run an all-electric vehicle on cost grounds.

A family member runs a Leaf. He regularly takes it down the motorways to business meetings and tops up at the services from the free fast chargers, and uses the charging time to work on his laptop. He actually thrives on the adrenalin boost from range anxiety. When he returns from a hard days electro-work-travel he has a free top-up locally whilst he enjoys the Swedish meat balls served there.

He analyses his Leaf costs and to date fuelling it is running at £8 per 1000 miles. I think I might have to get one of those.

It won't last though, the freebies will stop soon!

[korat102]

Thin end of the wedge mate; I've always said enjoy the freebies while they last - As electric/PIH's become more popular those freebies will start to disappear...

Yep. Same as the water suppliers charging people without meters ludicrously high amounts. The idea being to force everyone onto a meter. Then, when everyone is on a meter, the price of metered watered will start to creep up.

As far as diesels go, I ended up with one because it was simply impossible to find a used petrol Verso of the right age. People just don't buy petrol Verso's... At least mine does 90% motorway/dual carriageway journeys so I'm hoping that most of the clogging up issues can be avoided...for as long as I have it anyway!

[Astolat]

Hello to Grumpy Cabbie, who I've met on another forum...

While all the networks like Plugged in Midlands etc are losing their subsidy, so are bound to increase prices or (as Source London is suggesting) going PAYG there is currently a great deal if you buy Source East registration for £10 for the year. It has a roaming agreement with Source London AND Plugged in Midlands, plus Ecotricity accept it at their motorway chargers, the only card you need...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Hello to Grumpy Cabbie, who I've met on another forum...

While all the networks like Plugged in Midlands etc are losing their subsidy, so are bound to increase prices or (as Source London is suggesting) going PAYG there is currently a great deal if you buy Source East registration for £10 for the year. It has a roaming agreement with Source London AND Plugged in Midlands, plus Ecotricity accept it at their motorway chargers, the only card you need...

lol now you have me worried

Hopefully not from a particular UK forum which is synonymous which whinging and moaning and whinging some more? Some forums are good and informative and people generally get on, some had the odd moaners but then Policed themselves and improved until they were very friendly (this forum) and some are just awful places to be with threats and insults thrown around for daring to disagree. Glad you've found this place, it's a breath of fresh air. (you do get the odd diesel fan boy but even they're now slowly coming round to the pollution they cause and the extra cost involved with dpf's )

You're right, now that the subsidies are diminishing for CYC and the like,so is the service it is reported. Ecotricity cards are free, even to non customers and intend to remain so for the foreseeable at least. I personally support them through my electric bill as I believe in what they're doing and for me they're also the cheapest supplier.

So yes, I would suggest anyone with a PIP contacts Ecotricity and orders one of their cards and perhaps also considers changing their supply to them too. They offer a token discount on your electricity rate if you prove you own an EV too.

Win win situation.

(They have an amazing network in the South and Midlands, but are working their way North at the moment and plans are afoot to increase their network significantly up here. They are also about to start installs on A roads too. They don't seem their network as a temporary PR job, but a long term project: or so I've heard)

[Astolat]

No, no, Priuschat. Very useful, and I have learned a lot from there because there are so many more Plug-in drivers, but they are obviously not able to comment on the things that are UK-model specific.

Ecotricity - while I applaud the work they have done, and even applaud their plans, they are steadily ceasing to serve the PiP. They are concentrating on rapid chargers, which the PiP can't use. It makes sense; on the motorway, getting 10 miles or so when I stop for lunch is just a Brucie bonus for me, whereas putting another 50 miles into a Leaf is a much better use of resources.

[JHRC]

The prius can not be fast charged even if you connected to a fast charge station. I have a 32 amp charger and it still take 90 min to fully charge from almost discharged.

Here a comment for the TOYOTA BLOG when a question was asked about the charging of the Prius.

The Prius Plug-In has a charge time of 90 minutes so we did not feel it
was necessary to add the fast charge feature. The 13 and 16 amp charge
points charge the car in the same amount of time because the maximum
draw of the Battery is 13 amps, it does fluctuate to lower figures as
well. It may seem then that the 16 amp charge station is not a relevant
product. This is not the case. The 16 amp charge station is much more
convenient than the 13 amp home socket. It also allows flexibility for
any future plug-in or EV models you may own that have different charge
rates

[MEP's Yaris GS]

So the PIP can still use these fast chargers, it'll just charge at its usual pace, and they won't damage it?

[Astolat]

Yes, but you can't connect a PiP to the Ecotricity fast chargers at all. It will connect to the 22kw charger and, as you say, charge at normal speed, but it can't use the 50 kW charger at all.