1.4 D-4D Turbo Problems

[Darren_79]

Hi all

63-plate 1.4D-4D Yaris, bought new in Feb 2014 and now has just over 8000 miles on the clock.....suddenly have an issue with lack of power / acceleration.

The car has been great to drive - put your foot down and you can feel the turbo kick in around 2000rpm and it really takes off.

However, last week when pulling on to the motorway, there was a split second when there was a strange sound and the mpg graph read out on the touchscreen (the one which shows minute by minute mpg) suddenly dropped to 0 for one of the minute block. Then the graph went back to normal and everything seemed fine.

Next day, pulling out from home setting off for work and there seemed to be a lack of acceleration around 2000rpm as I would have expected...again, didn't think too much of it until I got on to the motorway, tried accelerating in the higher gears....and it was noticeable that the turbo didn't seem to be kicking in around 2000rpm, acceleration was poor and you had to put your foot pretty much all the way down on the accelerator to get any sort of performance (normally the slightest touch on the accelerator pedal and the car usually normally picks up really quickly).

Car has stayed like this now for the past 4 days - just really slow acceleration when you would expect it to really pick up. Other than that, the car is driving normally (slightly lower mpg on the read out however) with no rattles or smoke from the exhaust. For example, in 5th gear at 60mph (around the 2000rpm mark), foot has to go nearly 3/4s of the way to the floor for it to get going and it is painful to watch the revs increase slowly. Another example....6th gear on the motorway around 65mph, foot down to overtake and instead of actually providing the boost of power required, the gear change down light came on as it just didn't want to pick up the pace.

Rang the dealership and at first they tried to explain that it would be the dpf regen....I've had the car for 6 months now and know what the dpf regen feels like (usually occurs every 500 miles or so, slight decrease in performance over about 10 mins)....this is just a constant lack of power / lack or turbo since that split second glitch last week when pulling on to the motorway.

Booked in with the garage on Tuesday of next week....just wondered if anyone may have an idea what may have happened?

Cheers

Darren

[MikeSh]

Depends on what a "strange noise" sounded like.

From the symptoms I'd probably be looking for a leak in the intake piping between the turbo and engine. (IIRC there's quite a lot of as it goes round the front of the radiator and back to get some intercooling and a joint might have come loose.)

I believe total turbo failure (seizure) is usually more noticeable, so I doubt it's that, but I've not heard about what these particular engines are like in that condition.

[mrpj]

I personally wouldn't be looking for anything with less than 6 months old car with 8000 miles.

I'd be straight to the dealers and request they fix it!

[MikeSh]

I personally wouldn't be looking for anything with less than 6 months old car with 8000 miles.

I'd be straight to the dealers and request they fix it!

But it's not going in till next week, so I'd at least want to check it was safe, and possibly do a temporary fix if I could see something wrong. If it's just a joint sprung open a couple of turns of duct tape might sort it until the dealer can do a proper job.

It's also a good idea to know what the problem is before leaving it at the garage - you've a better chance of checking it's been fixed when you get the car back :D

[Cyker]

May also be the EGR valve/throttle body, that's a fairly common issue with diesel Yarisusuesasises, esp. ones that don't get enough motorway miles

[Darren_79]

Hi all

Thanks for the input so far.

Not being technically minded, I wouldn't really know what to be looking for...or even where to be looking if I could do a temporary fix....am just really curious as to what has gone wrong with the car.

My daily drive to work is 25 miles, pretty much 20 of that is motorway or dual carriageway. In the higher gears it is really noticeable with the lack of power over 2000rpm and how slow the revs increase and it really struggles to get anywhere over 2600-2800rpm now...and that is with right foot pretty much 3/4 of the way buried to the floor.

Will update after Tuesday.

Cheers

Darren

[Darren_79]

Hi all

Update after it has been in the garage today - apparently it was a blocked EGR Valve that needed cleaning out....with the advice to alter my driving style every so often (i.e. stay in a lower gear every so often and rev it more!).

Haven't taken it out on the motorway yet as the garage is relatively local...will try in the morning on the blast to work and see if there is any difference...

Cheers

Darren

[korat102]

EGR is a terrible emissions solution, especially for diesel engines. It's impossible to prevent build up of some deposits. It's not only unburned hydrocarbons from the fuel that causes problems but it's also affected by engine oil being burned in the combustion chambers. Since the EGR is in a location where it never actually gets hot enough to burn off carbon, it's almost inevitable that it's going to get clogged up over time. All you can really do is use a good quality fuel to get the best combustion possible and ensure the right engine oil is used and changed regularly in order to reduce the soot production. Additives *may* help, the jury's still out on that one though...

[Cyker]

Agreed.

I really don't get the EGR; It makes *everything* worse except for NOx. And now they are fitting them to petrols, which AFAIK weren't particularly big producers of NOx, so now they will be subject to the same problems!

The annoying thing is that, rather than trying to help make diesel better, most are just trying to wipe it off the map.

Diesel is far more efficient than Otto combustion and the vehicles last longer, but because of the way it works, it does produce more toxic exhaust. These stupid filter systems are just just quick and dirty hacks to mask the problem - There are more and better ways of fixing it.

One thing they could try with diesel engines which you couldn't do with petrol engines is use a variable compression ratio. Air injection is another way to increase performance and reduce NOx. Another possibility is legislating an alteration to the fuel; It's already been shown that biodiesel produces far less pollutants than petrodiesel in all categories except NOx, so if they figure out another additive to help control that (e.g. CME), that would help with ALL diesel vehicles, not just new ones!

It's not like they haven't done something like that before, with the switch from Low Sulphur Diesel to the much more expensive Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.

We've already gotten it this far, where my ickle DPF-less Mk1 Yaris generates virtually no visible soot, even under load when I'm using V-Power diesel, and it is 10 years old!

[Darren_79]

Had a first run out on the motorway this morning after it had been in to the garage to have the EGR cleaned and .......

.......still have the issue of poor acceleration, particularly in 4th / 5th / 6th gear!

It just doesn't seem to have the pull that it had before when you got if over the 2000rpm range (i.e. when the turbo normally kicked in)....basically foot has got to be pressed right down to get any sort of good accelaration (don't get me wrong, it drives and will accelerate slowly without this), but it struggles to get over 2800-3000rpm now, it is slow getting thesere, and just doesn't have the punch that it used to have around this rev range.

It just feels like it is running without a turbo at the moment...

Darren

[korat102]

A boost gauge would be so useful...

Is the air filter nice and clean? The problem with cleaning the EGR valve housing is that quite often the garages don't also clean the rest of the inlet tract which will most likely also be gunged up.

Could be so many things causing those symptoms but with a car only a few months old I'd be back at the dealer. They need to get it fixed. When cars are under warranty, the less you do to them the better. Don't give the dealers any wriggle room...

[Devon Aygo]

Just a possibility from my own experience, My 14 plate Yaris suffered something very similar recently, the car had just recently completed an run from Plymouth to Perth & back faultlessly. The after I came home I needed fuel so stopped at a Sainsburys and added £10 car was fine for about 10 minutes then on trying to exit a junction the car was totally flat no power then all of a sudden the power came in but not at full power, from then on the car felt lifeless on the dual carriage way there was little pull in 5th & 6th. I called the dealer and made an appointment for a few days later. Before the appointment I needed fuel again but this time used my usual BP station about 10 minutes after filling the tank with fuel upon entering a motorway I noticed the car pulled the way it used to and shot up to speed and since then I have not suffered any issues, I have since cancelled by appointment as the BP fuel has cured my issue for now.

What fuel are you using have you changed suppliers or quality i.e stopped using branded B/Shell etc and used cheap supermarket?

[Catlover]

My 2009 Yaris 1.4D4d seems to run well on Sainsburys fuel. Because of Nectar points that is primarily what i put in, and usually go from full tank down to quarter full then up to top again. Computer read out says 62.2mpg. I dont think my car has a DPF fitted (pretty sure it doesnt).

[Darren_79]

Devon Aygo

The only fuel I've ever put in the car from new is Shell (the standard diesel, not the V-Power). The incident with the split second splutter, mpg read out to zero (almost like it had reset itself) and subsequent sluggish feeling happened on 31st July (I should add, it was pretty much on the 8000 mile mark exactly!) - had filled up just prior to that on 29th July, and have put another £30 in since then...where I live & work, essentially always use one of three Shell stations.

It does sound like yours though, just feeling a little lifeless with little pull in 5th and 6th. AS I say, 5th gear, about 60mph (around 2000rpm) then have to plant foot to get it going...which it does, but the acceleration feels sluggish getting to just below 3000rpm around 80mph (eventually!) and then almost feeling like it doesn't want to keep going.

Booked back in for Monday next week.

Cheers

Darren

[George Humphreys]

just get a petrol

[korat102]

My 2009 Yaris 1.4D4d seems to run well on Sainsburys fuel. Because of Nectar points that is primarily what i put in, and usually go from full tank down to quarter full then up to top again.

BP give you nectar points. They do around Milton Keynes anyway...

I've had no issues at all with BP's diesel, never actually tried supermarket diesel having been badly bitten by Tesco's petrol many moons ago.

[Cyker]

I mostly use Sainsburys or Shell V-Power diesel. The car runs okay on Sainsburys diesel, nice strong pull, can't see any soot in the rear view unless I floor it at night when someone's tailgating me, then you can see some smoke in their headlight beams.

The V-Power almost totally eliminates visible soot and makes the engine run noticeably smoother, less vibration and quieter. However, I do notice a drop in low-end torque (Struggles a bit when I abuse 4th going up hills and such at low RPMs!), but the revs pick up more readily in normal driving - Just floor-and-go :D Makes overtaking even easier than it already is!

The D4D tends to get a bit noisy and vibrates quite alarmingly when you get past 3000rpm, and you can feel the torque delivery start to drop off, but I find the V-Power tames most of the noise and vibration and gives it a bit more headroom so I can take it up to 4K without feeling scared the engine is going to fly out of the bonnet suddenly

I tend to chuck in a tank every 4 fills, or if I know I'm going to be doing a lot of motorway driving.

I seem to get slightly worse mpg with the V-Power, maybe ~5mpg down vs the baseline Sainsburys.

I have used the Morrisons 7% biodiesel on occasion; Shows a similar level of vibration reduction, but otherwise felt the same as the Sainsburys.

Worst by far have been Tesco and Esso diesels - They made the engine sound very 80's diesel transit van, very harsh dakkadakkadakka and engine vibration, plus a noticeable powerloss across the rev range. May also have increased the sootiness of the exhaust, but that may have just been me giving it more beans to try and make the car move!

[Cyker]

@Darren - Get the throttle body checked as well as the EGR; When I had idling issues, the EGR was a bit sooty but it still moved. The actual problem was there is a small channel that runs from the EGR to the throttle body and that was totally blocked.

My travelling mechanic friend just took it out, blasted it with carb cleaner and jabbed it with a screwdriver until a chunk of carbon crap fell out, revealing the previously hidden hole!

I also wonder if it might be your DPF is getting blocked up?

Other possibilities are a leaky turbo pipe, blocked fuel or air filter, or the car just needs a good thrash in 4th up the motorway to get everything good and hot :)

You could try running it on V-Power diesel for a few tanks to see if that helps as that'll clean out the fuel system, but if it's an air intake issue it won't help much...