One Year In A Yaris Hybrid

[Alan_B]

Yes, Kevin, what particularly interests me is how the Toyota hybrids compare when it comes to mpg. I don't think we can trust the official line but when it comes the the hybrid Yaris and Auris there isn't much other data to go on. Your 3-week trial of a Prius in place of an Auris Hybrid is the best published comparison I have seen - same person, same type of driving, good length of time.

[johalareewi]

Yes, Kevin, what particularly interests me is how the Toyota hybrids compare when it comes to mpg.

A few years ago Toyota ran an mpg challenge. All across the country different people drove either a hybrid auris or a gen3 prius over a set journey to see who could get the best mpg. The interesting result was that the prius returned better mpg than the auris.

[Cyker]

Theoretically, the Prius should win hands down for extra urban as it has that sleek kammback aero profile, while the Yaris HSD should win for urban as it's lighter and it's more brick-like aerodynamics don't affect things so much.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The main difference between the four (Auris, Auris Touring Sports, Prius and Yaris) is that the Prius is the only one designed as a hybrid - whereas the other three are adaptations of existing vehicles.

The Auris retains the Type Approval from the original 2007 Auris.

[Alan_B]

The only aspect of the design that I can see that might favour the Prius is the aerodynamics. In which case, it's not that it was designed as a hybrid but that it was designed to try to maximise the mpg whereas the other models were not. Or am I missing something?

[RunningInPleasePass]

The only aspect of the design that I can see that might favour the Prius is the aerodynamics. In which case, it's not that it was designed as a hybrid but that it was designed to try to maximise the mpg whereas the other models were not. Or am I missing something?

I think your correct, the Prius was designed to be very fuel efficient with low emission, it has a very slippery shape, and low rolling resistance tyres, the Yaris and Auris is just the standard car with the option of a hybrid drive.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The only aspect of the design that I can see that might favour the Prius is the aerodynamics. In which case, it's not that it was designed as a hybrid but that it was designed to try to maximise the mpg whereas the other models were not. Or am I missing something?

I think your correct, the Prius was designed to be very fuel efficient with low emission, it has a very slippery shape, and low rolling resistance tyres, the Yaris and Auris is just the standard car with the option of a hybrid drive.

That's correct BUT the Prius is the one with a lower official fuel economy. That's the madness about it all.

Prius 89g/km 72.4 mpg (15 inch wheels) 92g/km 70.6 mpg low profile wheels)

Auris hsd 91g/km 72.4 mpg (low profile wheels)

Yaris hsd 75g/lm 85.6 mpg (these figures take some finding on the toyota website!!)

Officially it's worse, but in reality it's not.

[Cyker]

It just shows the lack of wind resistance in the mpg test really penalizes cars that have good aerodynamics. :(

The test also favours really gutless engines that are very efficient when unloaded. I wager if they simulated load more realistically, all these petrols that claim similar mpgs to diesels would be end up with much lower ratings!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

It just shows the lack of wind resistance in the mpg test really penalizes cars that have good aerodynamics. :(

The test also favours really gutless engines that are very efficient when unloaded. I wager if they simulated load more realistically, all these petrols that claim similar mpgs to diesels would be end up with much lower ratings!

As will a lot of these small diesels too.

I think a lot of the advancement in fuel economy in the last 5 years is probably more down to dirty tricks than genuine improvement. Now there are EU targets for the manufacturers and owner benefits for cars under 100g/km, all this shenanigans started.

A rough example was the 1.8 Civic diesel that got about 52 mpg in 2009 and now the newer shape 1.8 Civic diesel gets about 83 mpg or whatever it is. How? There's only so much tuning they can do surely?

Trouble is, real life averages on fuelly and the like seem to reflect very similar economy on cars in 2009 and today. It's a shame about the Yaris Hybrid being diddled on the mpg's as Mrs Cabbie really had her eye on one.

[Alan_B]

There's nothing wrong with the Yaris hybrid so long as you don't expect it to do better mpg than the Prius, as the official figures might suggest it should. This thread indicates it's more likely to do worse overall but perhaps not about town.

I tried to find details of the Toyota MPG Challenge johalareewi referred to. Toyota UK ran one in 2011:

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/the-toyota-hybrid-challenge-how-low-can-you-go-with-your-prius-or-auris-hybrid#.VE9LcR2sUdU

but I have not been able to track-down details of the results. In 2013 there was something similar for the plug-in Prius

[johalareewi]

And

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/green-motoring/2011-04/toyota-hybrid/

The results were announced locally by the dealers and tended to appear on their websites and in the local press. Of all the results I saw, the Prius got better mpg than the Auris. Not sure if someone somewhere compiled a master results sheet from all the dealers.

[wittgenfrog]

I've had my Yaris Hybrid since June 2014. I've done about 8,000 miles and averaged just over 55mpg (56.3 according to the car). Although nothing like the Official mpg figures, I'm fairly happy withy the fuel consumption, as most usage is on my thrice-weekly 48 miles each way commute.

I live in West Wales, so there are no "flat" roads to be seen. Although I struggle to achieve the mpg of some other owners, I'm delighted by the car overall. It is quiet, comfortable, and relaxing to drive and seems to encourage a more laid-back approach.

The Yaris is hampered in aerodynamic terms, by the exigencies of various legislative constraints, not to mention the need to package 4 or 5 people in a small volume. Similarly it not have been easy and to accommodate the batteries & other hybrid gubbins as somewhat of an afterthought.

Toyota should really try to produce a "ground-up" designed small hybrid , like Renault's recent concept car.

The use of more energy-dense batteries (as in the latest Priuses) would almost certainly help to improve mpg.

[PeteB]

...Yaris is hampered in aerodynamic terms, by the exigencies of various legislative constraints...

Neither does it help fitting bigger wheels than necessary - this is supposed to be an eco-friendly car not a road burner!

By example, on the current Prius, heaven knows how many millions were spent getting the CD (drag factor) down from 0.26 on the Gen 2 to 0.25 on the T3 (15" wheels).

Toyota claimed at the launch that the Gen 3 had the highest amount of wind tunnel testing of any Toyota in history.

So can anyone explain to me why they then fitted 17" wheels to the T4 and T-Spirit, which lifted the CD back to 0.27 - WORSE than the Gen 2 !!! - with the consequent hit on mpg, CO2 and spend on tyres for owners!

[Alan_B]

My Yaris is a T4 and the tyres are R15 (175/65/R15). In the Yaris Hybrid range I think just the T-spirit had bigger wheels. Now it seems there is the Yaris Hybrid Icon with 15" wheels and an Excel with 16" wheels as standard.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Toyota should really try to produce a "ground-up" designed small hybrid , like Renault's recent concept car.

The use of more energy-dense batteries (as in the latest Priuses) would almost certainly help to improve mpg.

They have. It's called the Prius C in the US and Australia and the Aqua in Japan. It's very similar to the Yaris and gets good mpg figures according to the US forums, on a par with or exceeding the Prius. The non hybrid Yaris is also sold in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_c

In the US the Prius name is chosen for their hybrid models; Prius, Prius C, Prius V etc. In Europe the trend is to incorporate the hybrid system into existing models; Auris HSD, Yaris HSD. Unfortunately that seems to result in much lower mpg's and efficiency than in a bottom up hybrid design.

Note: Before comparing the mpg figures on the above link, be aware the US gallon is much smaller than ours, 3.7 litres compared to 4.5 litres. So 41 mpg US is 50 mpg UK. Also, their official ratings are lower as they are more 'real world' than the European version.

[Ten Ninety]

When I test drove a Yaris HSD T4 I found the 'instant' mpg meter readings were notably lower than an Auris HSD T-Spirit on the same roads. At the time, I put that down to the extra load of a salesman in the back and possible tyre inflation / wind / HSD-random-bad-day effects. It was only a few miles and not a valid comparison anyway. However, since then there have been so many posts on here about 'disappointing' Yaris HSD performance that I wonder whether I was actually giving it too much benefit of the doubt. As it happened, I disliked other aspects of the car enough not to buy it; specifically the woodchip wallpaper on the dash, the lumpy ride (worse than an Auris T-Spirit on 17s) and - just like PeteB - that infernal, infuriating indicator noise! I went for an older Prius instead which wasn't really 'better' but offered a different range of foibles more to my liking; cheap plastic rattles in the dash instead of woodchip; comedy barge-like cornering instead of a lumpy ride and a tinnitus-inducing reversing beeper instead of annoying indicator blips.

Foibles aside, however, the Prius has very much delivered on its selling point of mpg. I am still very curious as to how the Yaris would have performed in this respect, given the nature of my driving. I have a near-perfect commute for maximising economy which means I regularly see low-to-mid 80s on the meter (which equates to low-to-mid 70s in reality) during the summer. Aerodynamics don't come in to play much - as demonstrated by the fact that I can get the same figures out of my wife's Auris HSD on this journey - so the Yaris wouldn't be disadvantaged there. Wheel size wouldn't be an issue either - I've seen mid 80s in both Prius and Auris on 17s.

I wonder if Toyota would lend me a Yaris for a month to see what it can do in real-world conditions which are particularly conducive to hybrid driving? Hmm. I think I know the answer to that one already...

So can anyone explain to me why they then fitted 17" wheels to the T4 and T-Spirit, which lifted the CD back to 0.27 - WORSE than the Gen 2 !!! - with the consequent hit on mpg, CO2 and spend on tyres for owners!

Since I moved to 15s on the Prius there has been a slight improvement but probably no more than a couple of mpg overall, and that could possibly be attributed to using B-rated eco tyres instead of the C-rated Michelins which were standard. Given that the car looks so much better on 17s, I would imagine most people would happily trade what would literally be a few pounds a year on fuel for the aesthetic appeal.

Tyre spend is also not going to be important for most people. Granted, my 15" tyres and wheels were only about £50 more than just the tyres for 17s but given that the Michelins will easily run for 30k miles without needing replacement, for many people who change a car within 3 years that's not an issue anyway.

There's nothing wrong with the Yaris hybrid so long as you don't expect it to do better mpg than the Prius, as the official figures might suggest it should. This thread indicates it's more likely to do worse overall but perhaps not about town.

I tried to find details of the Toyota MPG Challenge johalareewi referred to. Toyota UK ran one in 2011:

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/the-toyota-hybrid-challenge-how-low-can-you-go-with-your-prius-or-auris-hybrid#.VE9LcR2sUdU

but I have not been able to track-down details of the results. In 2013 there was something similar for the plug-in Prius

I'm not sure those mpg challenges offer better information than Fuelly. In any case, neither are as useful as posting on here about long-term averages, as you and others have done. Without knowing how a given user has achieved their figures, it's all passing water in a gale.

Even when people do explain how they've achieved their figures, it can still be hard to draw conclusions unless the figures represent an extended period of time. I'd go as far as to say anything less than 12 months is potentially unreliable, given the winter/summer impact. Single journey averages are completely meaningless for comparison purposes. Wind speed; air density; air temperature; the amount of water on the road; how many people pull out in front of you and force you to slow down; whether your traffic-light luck is good; whether Mr HSD is feeling happy that day (I'm not kidding - occasionally mpg is hammered for NO apparent reason)... they all combine to muddy the waters when you're trying to compare the effects of different driving styles or speeds. A tankful isn't really much better as a comparison, and then only if you use the same pump at the same filling station.

Long-term averages are the only reliable comparator which is why posts such as yours are so useful. The downside is, any change to driving style also has to be maintained consistently for a long period of time to judge its effects!

[barrycoll]

". Given that the car looks so much
better on 17s, I would imagine most people would happily trade what
would literally be a few pounds a year on fuel for the aesthetic
appeal."

Possibly just you and me only, Ten Ninety.

Even after 2 years of ownership, I still look around after parking up, to admire its prettiness. Its profile is instantly recognisable, and even un-badged, it would still be a Prius.

Nothing in the VAG line-up can claim this......except, maybe, a 911 or a Veyron

[JSHarris]

I went for an older Prius instead which wasn't really 'better' but offered a different range of foibles more to my liking; cheap plastic rattles in the dash instead of woodchip; comedy barge-like cornering instead of a lumpy ride and a tinnitus-inducing reversing beeper instead of annoying indicator blips.

The reversing beeper is very easy to turn off to just a single beep as you select reverse. Anyone with a Scanguage can do it in around 30 seconds, or you can ask your dealer to do it at the next service.

There are two things I do immediately on taking delivery of a new Prius, one is to turn off the reversing beeper, the other is to turn off the seat belt warning beeper (as that goes off when you put a bag on the passenger seat).

The dash rattles on older Gen IIIs can be fixed easily, too. The two problem areas are the centre of the dash under the display (fixed by gently lifting the joint on the flat bit under the display and stuffing a thin bit of foam in there) and the joint between the "bridge" and the centre console. The latter is fixed by loosening the bolts holding the centre console down (under the felt base), levering the gap between the "bridge" and the centre console open a bit, then packing a thin bit of felt in the gap, and refixing things.

There is a temporary dash fix, spraying silicone spray in these two areas, but the rattles will come back after a few weeks.

[Wayne2015]

Lots of interesting info here Alan, cheers :)

[YarisHybrid2016]

If I wasn't so concerned with upsetting other drivers with slow progress, and risking getting hit by irate drivers tail-gating me to go faster, I would for the fun of doing it, challenge myself to get maximum gas milage.

Looking at how the average MPG slowly increases with the engine running at low speed, I'm thinking the Yaris is best somewhere between 40-50 MPH. 48 MPH seems to be an interesting speed.

If I go for a late-night drive as I sometimes do, I'll give it a go and see.