Yaris Hybrid - Yay Or Nay

[MEP's Yaris GS]

My parents have a 2001 1.0 Yaris, owned from new, now 190k on the clock and although mechanically sound, it's starting to look its age and mother is wanting an upgrade.

Thinking of getting another Yaris, as it's the best car they've owned to date when it comes to value for money, reliability and over all running / maintenance costs (it's still on the original clutch!!).

In hindsight they'd have gone diesel back in 2001 if they'd known how long they were going to keep the car, and the next replacement will probably be kept for the next decade also, but I'm not keen on going diesel with the issues some modern diesels are having.

So the choice is another petrol, or hybrid. Having a PiP myself I'm pushing for hybrid, which dad likes the idea of also, but mums never been a fan of automatics (this were working on).

Basically what I'm after is opinions from those who own, or have previously owned a Yaris hybrid, and what's made you decide on a hybrid Yaris over normal petrol or diesel. Any things you like and dislike about the car?

Jon.

[Joseph D]

My parents have a 2001 1.0 Yaris, owned from new, now 190k on the clock and although mechanically sound, it's starting to look its age and mother is wanting an upgrade.

Thinking of getting another Yaris, as it's the best car they've owned to date when it comes to value for money, reliability and over all running / maintenance costs (it's still on the original clutch!!).

...

As a disclosure, I own a Prius and I'm biased, but I would recommend a hybrid Yaris, but mostly for the above reasons of reliability and maintenance costs. Secondly the quiet and relaxed driving experience. Thirdly the lower running costs.

... but mum's never been a fan of automatics (this were working on). ...

Technically a hybrid is not an automatic so don't sell it as such. It only has two states, forwards and backwards. See how that goes. :)

[SK100]

I bought a new Yaris hybrid in March and have been very impressed with it and would highly recommend it to anyone. I've averaged 64 mpg over the 7 months I've had it and it's the quietest car I've ever owned. I'd never owned a non-manual gearbox car before this and I don't miss having to change gears at all. I decided on a Yaris hybrid because I wanted a high efficiency car without having to buy a diesel car - it's completely exceeded my expectations.

[PeteB]

Here's a review I did on another site in 2012

http://www.biwel.com/pmb01/[sOT] Yaris Hybrid test drive.pdf

I'm sure it goes without saying that a test drive is essential, not just because of the Hybrid system, but IMHO there are some real shocks in the latest version of the Yaris generally, that will be more apparent to previous Yaris owners: mainly, the three Unique Selling Points of the old Yaris, all gone:

• reflected digital instruments that meant much less eye refocusing and therefore less fatigue on longer journeys
  
• sliding rear seat that gave choice between excellent leg room OR lots of boot space
  
• masses of internal oddments storage

Obviously these will matter more to some than others, but I have seen posts on other sites that the oddments space is a real pain for some people (would be for me too).

Funny how gearboxes, a necessary evil to get over shortcomings of combustion engines rather than something anybody originally wanted can be so sorely missed by some people.

[Parts-King]

I have had Hybrid's and Diesel's or all varieties

I agree with the relaxed driving style of a Hybrid, very smooth, good MPG, nothing not to like about them

I recently had a 1.4 Auris Tourer Diesel, I think it is one of the best cars I have ever used, bags of torque even for a small engine (I did have one of our chip kits on it) and had a constant 58 MPG. I do 40 odd miles a day, a mixture of Motorway and stop start busy A road at the start and end of journey

We are going over to a user chooser type of company car scheme and my choice will be another 1.4 Tourer

Kingo

[johalareewi]

Technically a hybrid is not an automatic so don't sell it as such. It only has two states, forwards and backwards. See how that goes. :)

And stopped!

One of the things previous Yaris owners might miss are the storage spaces (like under the passenger seat) and the rear sliding seats.

[PeteB]

Technically a hybrid is not an automatic so don't sell it as such. It only has two states, forwards and backwards. See how that goes. :)

And stopped!

One of the things previous Yaris owners might miss are the storage spaces (like under the passenger seat) and the rear sliding seats.

and gloveboxes - I think the 2001 had 2 (upper and lower, like Prius) but my old 2011 Yaris had a third upper one on the driver's' side - very useful.

[catboy]

I have had a yaris hybrid and I now have a Auris hybrid I was apprehensive at first but find the driving style of the hybrids suits me.I am in my late sixties so the need for speed is a thing of the past not that the overcrowded roads give you much chance anyway.The hybrid style of driving doesn't suite everybody but get a test drive booked in and do a few miles I am sure your mother will be happy.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Thanks for the comments to date guys. My main concern with the mk3 is the storage and cubby holes as has been mentioned, the mk2 was an improvement on the mk1, but the mk3 seems to be worse than any of them.

We've booked a test drive for tomorrow morning, of a HSD and 1.33 manual, so will see what she thinks of them both.

[sceh]

I have tried it and it is great but does it not have the CVT? Given Toyotas capability to make a simple concept work (MMT), I would steer clear

[PeteB]

For an 'ordinary' petrol car, the 1.33 engine mated to the 6 speed gearbox is superb.

My 2011 Yaris that I had for just one year was a 1.33 (although I had the MultiMode Transmission - same clutch and gearbox, just a robot under the bonnet working them for me).

The gears were fairly well chosen, except 6th could have been even taller for higher speed cruising. The engine is beautifully flexible, revs freely if needed, and is remarkably smooth and quiet at idle.

My ex-partner now has it and loves it. It's almost a good on fuel consumption as her 1 litre Aygo was.

[Parts-King]

I have tried it and it is great but does it not have the CVT? Given Toyotas capability to make a simple concept work (MMT), I would steer clear

The CVT cannot be compared in any shape or form to an MMT, the CVT is superb and very sturdy, we have seen very few problems with it

[MEP's Yaris GS]

I have tried it and it is great but does it not have the CVT? Given Toyotas capability to make a simple concept work (MMT), I would steer clear

CVT, which is no different to any other Toyota Hybrid though, and to be honest the days of CVT issues from the 80's & earlier 90's seem to have gone luckily.

[RunningInPleasePass]

To be pedantic, Toyota Hybrids do not have a true CVT gearbox, it just behaves like one, I think Toyota call it ECVT, but it's other name is a Power Split Device, it seems to have a good reputation for reliability!

Whatever it's name, it works a treat, get your Toyota dealer to lend you a Yaris Hybrid for a weekend or so, I'm sure you will enjoy it.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I have tried it and it is great but does it not have the CVT? Given Toyotas capability to make a simple concept work (MMT), I would steer clear

The CVT cannot be compared in any shape or form to an MMT, the CVT is superb and very sturdy, we have seen very few problems with it

So why Toyotas recent insistence on that MMT nonsense on most of their smaller cars? Mrs Cabbie loves the new Aygo but we're looking elsewhere as it only comes with MMT. They're dreadful, nasty things. I appreciate they may get good economy but why not give the option of manual, mmt AND cvt/auto?

As Clarkson half said; "Avoid the MMT gearbox like you'd avoid unprotected s*x with an ethiopian male prostitute."

[Parts-King]

MMT On new Aygo is nothing like previous versions, time will tell I suppose, but it really is rather good

[Alan_B]

I drove a 206 'Eco' diesel (manual) for 10 years and now a Yaris Hybrid for one year. I would prefer to drive a manual but my wife only drives automatics so the Yaris was a compromise car we could take on trips. I hate it when the car sometimes uses very high revs to achieve only modest acceleration but apart from that it is relaxing and quiet to drive compared to my old diesel. Taking your foot off the accelerator will encourage a gear change, which seems quite natural if you have been used to driving a manual transmission car.

You can pay quite a premium for the hybrid without (in my case) getting spectacular mpg figures so if your parents don't do a lot of miles each year it might not be worth getting the hybrid based on straight economics.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

I have tried it and it is great but does it not have the CVT? Given Toyotas capability to make a simple concept work (MMT), I would steer clear

The CVT cannot be compared in any shape or form to an MMT, the CVT is superb and very sturdy, we have seen very few problems with it

So why Toyotas recent insistence on that MMT nonsense on most of their smaller cars? Mrs Cabbie loves the new Aygo but we're looking elsewhere as it only comes with MMT. They're dreadful, nasty things. I appreciate they may get good economy but why not give the option of manual, mmt AND cvt/auto?

As Clarkson half said; "Avoid the MMT gearbox like you'd avoid unprotected s*x with an ethiopian male prostitute."

Cost probably, why make 2 auto boxes when you can get away with one - although having said that I'm sure the Auto none HSD Yaris is CVT isn't it?

[PeteB]

Yikes - lets get this transmission thing sorted out:

Yaris (or Auris or Prius) HSD (Hybrid)

• no gearbox at all, no clutch, no torque converter, just electric motor, petrol engine linked to the wheels through a piece of magic that goes by many names *, but is really just a glorified differential - beautifully simple, and massively fewer moving parts than a conventional auto or manual car
  
• Nothing slips, swaps cogs, moves up or down pulleys, engages or disengages
  
• There is no real neutral, it's physically connected all the time (in "N", just the HV electrics are disabled - so even if the engine runs, it won't charge the HV battery)
  
• If one element changes speed something else MUST compensate (or the PSD breaks!) - e.g.:
  • if you're stopped and the engine starts, the electric motor spins the other way by the same amount
    
  • if the engine is off, and the electric motor starts speeding up, you MUST be accelerating
    
  • if you're using Cruise Control at 60, come to a hill and the engine speeds up but the car stays at 60, the electric motor MUST slow down by the same amount (or even start spinning the other way!)
    
  • if you select reverse, the electric motor just spins the other way

Current Yaris 1.33 Petrol

• 6 speed manual gearbox OR
  
• real CVT with pulleys and belts inside

Previous Yaris 1.33 Petrol

• 6 speed manual gearbox OR
  
• same 6 speed gearbox and clutch, with a robotic controller than sort of makes it like an automatic, with manual override using the selector or flappy paddles, but is a much cheaper option than a full auto and very economical

Aygo (old and new)

• 5 speed manual gearbox OR
  
• same 5 speed gearbox and clutch, with a robotic controller as above

* names including, but not limited to:

• power split device (PSD)
• eCVT
• transaxle
• Sun gear
• Planetary gear

Personally, I love the Hybrid system most, but the MMT almost as much - it IS nice to slip it into Manual Mode and floor it in 3rd or 4th on a steepish hill without masses of revs

[PeteB]

Cost probably, why make 2 auto boxes when you can get away with one - although having said that I'm sure the Auto none HSD Yaris is CVT isn't it?

Honda's Jazz auto had the solution, with a CVT that could be set into Manual Mode - this forced the infinitely variable conical pulleys to 'jump' to one of 7 preset positions to give the impression of a 7 speed gearbox, which could either be used as a stepped auto, or manually via flappy paddles - again could be used to limit revs on a hill.

Not sure if they still sell this or not.

[Red Yaris 54]

Current Yaris 1.33 Petrol

6 speed manual gearbox OR

Real CVT with pulleys and belts inside

What you have failed to mention is that the current Yaris 1.33 CVT has the ability to select manual mode allowing 7 step gearchanges using either the steering wheel mounted flappy panels or the gear stick

The 1.33 Yaris with CVT is a great flexible car to drive in many different modes

[MEP's Yaris GS]

I personally don't like the idea of being able to impose gear ratios on a CVT. Thats not how they're designed to work IMO, they should be left to do their own thing, as the engine should always be sitting at best rpm for torque output when accelerating hard. This has always been the benefit of CVT gearboxes.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota haven't totally gone over to CVT's in their larger cars - one member in , I think, Cyprus has one of the current generation 1.4 D4D Auris with the MMT transmission.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota haven't totally gone over to CVT's in their larger cars - one member in , I think, Cyprus has one of the current generation 1.4 D4D Auris with the MMT transmission.

[PeteB]

I personally don't like the idea of being able to impose gear ratios on a CVT. Thats not how they're designed to work IMO, they should be left to do their own thing, as the engine should always be sitting at best rpm for torque output when accelerating hard. This has always been the benefit of CVT gearboxes.

That's what I thought when Honda added it to their Jazz CVT about 10 years ago.

Moreover, I wondered what possessed them, having presumably invested millions developing a gearbox that overcame the shortcomings of conventional stepped gears, to then throw more money putting those shortcomings back on top!

One thought was simply to make people used the manual gearboxes feel 'at home; (after all, the only reason a Toyota Hybrid creeps when you take your foot off the brake is because normal automatics do!).

When I drove one (my ex partner was thinking about buying one) it did sort of make some sense - CVTs can't read minds - sometimes on a hill, I want to press the accelerator fairly hard but allow some speed to bleed off to maximise fuel economy - whereas the control electronics simply think I'm trying to maintain speed and raise the rpm accordingly, I'd rather stay lower down the rev range but still inside the effective part of the torque curve. That's exactly what I often did in the Yaris MMT.