Service/mot

[gen2]

Good evening fellow members,

Need some advice on how to make a complaint against vantage Toyota Solihull for poor and lacking in any courtesy towards its customer.

I took my 08 Prius there for a service and mot for the 60 k service,and ended up having all the hassles and feeling of getting ripped off.

Anyone used the dealer from here would appreciate their comment.

My total bill for front brakes including disk and pads £229 which I thought fair but out of total bill of £531 rest for mot and service charge which was basically oil and filter and spark plug change which didn't want.

After I took car home checked the oil level and found it was over the Maximum level,took it back and they reduced it and commented it wasn't much over!

Your thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks

[FROSTYBALLS]

Which service was due - intermediate or full?

Isn't the spark plug change due at 6 years/60,000 miles?

[valmiki]

spark plug change - probably full

[gen2]

It was full service but I tried to negotiate intermediate service since I wanted to change the spark plugs myself.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Assuming service was a full service - under the Fixed Price Service scheme cost is £209. Including the replacement front discs/pads we're looking at a possible cost of around £440. MOT standard price £55 - up to approx £495. Was the brake fluid changed?

So given the above costs, the total bill of £531 including spark plugs seems reasonable, and if the brake fluid was changed (supposed to be changed every 2 years), the cost seems more reasonable.

The cost of the FPS full service doesn't include the cost of replacing spark plugs - the full+ service at £269 does.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I'm sure there's a fixed price service off from Toyota? I had a flyer from my local dealers the other day telling me about it and how it included the HHC.

Ah I'm right, there is fixed price servicing for Toyota and the full+ service for a gen2 is £269. Then the brakes are a fixed price item and the MOT is about £35 too.

http://www.toyota.co.uk/service-and-maintenance/car-servicing

Actually, if you add the £269 + £229 + £35 mot = £533.

Sounds like their bill is correct.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Vantage are also currently offering TOC members 20% off Fixed Price Servicing and MOT's for £29 - did you mention this offer to them? If not, may be worth going back to them to see whether they will retrospectively give you the two offers.

[timberwolf]

The oil overfill is routine and up to the usual quality that you can expect from any main dealer.

I believe the issue relates to an error in Toyota's specification for the Prius Gen 2 of 3.7 litres.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Vantage are also currently offering TOC members 20% off Fixed Price Servicing and MOT's for £29 - did you mention this offer to them? If not, may be worth going back to them to see whether they will retrospectively give you the two offers.

Where's it say that? I'm with Vantage. They do offer 20% off all work? How much is membership of TOC?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Vantage are also currently offering TOC members 20% off Fixed Price Servicing and MOT's for £29 - did you mention this offer to them? If not, may be worth going back to them to see whether they will retrospectively give you the two offers.

Where's it say that? I'm with Vantage. They do offer 20% off all work? How much is membership of TOC?

They have been running banner adverts on TOC - the offer on genuine Toyota parts and accessories is 10%. Not able to copy and paste the adverts, but for example the link to the MOT Offer is http://www.vantagemotorgroup.co.uk/toyota/aftersales-offers/owners-club-mot/

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Vantage are also currently offering TOC members 20% off Fixed Price Servicing and MOT's for £29 - did you mention this offer to them? If not, may be worth going back to them to see whether they will retrospectively give you the two offers.

Are any other dealers included in this out of interest?

[FROSTYBALLS]

As far as I'm aware Vantage aren't sponsoring TOC - just providing discounts. Don't know of any other dealers providing offers to TOC members.

I use Inchcape (even though Vantage are local to me), and I approached Inchcape earlier this year, to ask whether they would provide some sort of discount to TOC member. The enquiry was passed onto their Toyota team - but I heard no more. I have now approached them again - so if anything comes of this I'll post on the forums

[Ancient Nerd]

The oil overfill is routine and up to the usual quality that you can expect from any main dealer.

I believe the issue relates to an error in Toyota's specification for the Prius Gen 2 of 3.7 litres.

I trained my dealer by getting them to remove the excess oil before I leave. It wastes enough of their time that they learned after a couple of services.

The same applies with the Gen 3, but the excess fill is much less.

It is easier to take the correct amount of your own oil and tell them to use that. This also saves a fair amount of money on the service. For 0W-30 there is plenty of choice. For 0W-20, I use Total Quartz 9000 which is available for comfortably under £30 for 4 litres. There are no problems on quality. Total is the French National oil company. I've been using this in my recently replaced Gen III for its last 100,000 miles with no problem. At 135,000 miles it was still using no oil.

FWIW, dealers vary a lot. My current dealer in Norwich is excellent.

I would be interested to know if this problem occurs in any other countries. Toyota GB, in my experience is useless. I raised this subject years ago with my dealer, who has fed the information back to Toyota, who in turn have handled it with the effectiveness I have come to expect of them.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

FWIW, dealers vary a lot. My current dealer in Norwich is excellent.

I'm glad to hear that, as that's where my PiP is going tomorrow for its 20k service. Out of interest have they ever tried to charge you £10 for the courtesy car?

[Ancient Nerd]

FWIW, dealers vary a lot. My current dealer in Norwich is excellent.

I'm glad to hear that, as that's where my PiP is going tomorrow for its 20k service. Out of interest have they ever tried to charge you £10 for the courtesy car?

Yes. However they don't do this if you have Toyota insurance.

Nevertheless, I have just cancelled my Toyota insurance mid stream, because they recently decided that they were not prepared to cover my winter tyres on non-Toyota wheels. I had agreed this with them, at no charge, when I first took out the insurance. I had queried it when I got the latest policy documents after renewal, and found that there was no mention of the winter wheels.

They initially tried to charge over £50 extra for early cancellation, including trying to charge for the whole year for some add-ons.

Anyway, a move to Direct Line, with a full collection of extras resulted, in a significant premium reduction, much more than enough to compensate for the £10.

Finally, if your insurance covers courtesy cars, then you really shouldn't pay this, as long as you can show you are covered. If your cover is only third party for the temporary replacement, then the £10 is probably well worth paying. Just watch the excesses.

I also agree about the Norwich dealer. They are excellent. I've had 10 of my last 12 Prius services done there. I'm not so sure about their branches as I've had the last couple of services done at Attleborough and I've not been entirely happy. So I'm going back to Norwich, despite it being a much less convenient location. The dealer in Cambridge is also OK, but not up to the standard of the Norwich one.

[RunningInPleasePass]

FWIW, dealers vary a lot. My current dealer in Norwich is excellent.

I'm glad to hear that, as that's where my PiP is going tomorrow for its 20k service. Out of interest have they ever tried to charge you £10 for the courtesy car?

I think most Toyota Dealers charge £10 insurance for courtesy car.

I usually wait while my car is serviced, not to save the £10, but I think it can work out quicker in the end, by the time I've got the paperwork sorted for a courtesy car, put a splash of petrol in it, driven home, it's time to drive back to collect my car!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Mine don't charge for use of a courtesy car as such; not if you don't mind a £1,000 excess (or was it £500?). I know if you pay the £10 they reduce it to £100.

Regarding Toyota Insurance. We're with them and they've been fine. When Mrs Cabbie had a prang they were great and car was taken to the Toyota body shop and she was given an automatic courtesy car. The sad fact was the Toyota bodyshop used Nissan cars!?! wtf?

[timberwolf]

I decided there was no point worrying about the oil overfill after I wondered what other jobs they weren't doing properly or at all. Now, after a service I just check if it still has a wheel at each corner.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I decided there was no point worrying about the oil overfill after I wondered what other jobs they weren't doing properly or at all. Now, after a service I just check if it still has a wheel at each corner.

But now one will have a slightly lower pressure than the others and they'll all be much lower than when it went in.

[Duffryn]

Just to demonstrate my complete lack of technical nous - but how does one know if an engine has been overfilled with oil (apart from the dipstick of course!), does it manifest itself in any way, and how detrimental could it be to the engines' wellbeing?

[MEP's Yaris GS]

PiP went in for service this morning, showed my motor insurance cert which proved I was covered fully comp in their Aygo, so £10 waived. Also means if I bin it, its only a £150 excess on my policy vs £500 on theirs!

They were very efficient in getting the car booked in and the Aygo paperwork sorted. Shall look forward to getting my PiP back this evening though, 2 miles into the journey sitting in traffic and I was already missing it.

[Chris Dance]

I always have our car collected and returned to the house when a service is required. I have never had any problems; they will collect and return a car from a persons place of employment. I always check the car after a service. Oil is always OK but sometimes tyre pressures are too high, I did have my last car damaged by a jack on its last service; dealer sorted that out OK.

With regard to direct line car insurance, both my son and I have had problems with that company. I am now with Toyota and up till now every time I have needed to contact them I have dealt with a sensible understanding person. The folk I dealt with at Direct Line would not listen to reason and stuck to their well defined script.

[timberwolf]

I decided there was no point worrying about the oil overfill after I wondered what other jobs they weren't doing properly or at all. Now, after a service I just check if it still has a wheel at each corner.

But now one will have a slightly lower pressure than the others and they'll all be much lower than when it went in.

I don't follow, why would one have a slightly lower pressure than the others?

Just to demonstrate my complete lack of technical nous - but how does one know if an engine has been overfilled with oil (apart from the dipstick of course!), does it manifest itself in any way, and how detrimental could it be to the engines' wellbeing?

It's unlikely that you'd notice any difference. If it was overfilled too much then you'd notice as it would be terminal.

In the long term, the engine is manufactured to a very fine tolerance, adding excess oil will result in a higher pressure within the engine, so it may lead to earlier failure of an engine component. At least that is my understanding. It should be pointed out that this mistreatment has been going on for a very long time, if most dealers are getting it wrong, then the engine still has a likely life of at least 100k before it starts burning oil and I've no idea at what age the 1.5L engines typically fail.

[Sagitar]

Sorry Timberwolf, but that is not how it works at all. The bulk of the oil is contained in a tray at the bottom of the engine and is open to atmospheric pressure through a number of openings such as the filler cap and the dip stick tube. There is no way therefore that the pressure in the oil in the sump can rise much above one atmosphere.

The oil that provides lubrication to the moving parts of the engine is at much higher pressure and is driven by the oil pump. As long as the oil level in the sump is above the intake port on the pump, its level will not directly affect the working oil pressure.

Such damage as results from overfilling the sump, is much more likely to arise from the "churning" that is caused by failing to keep the lower moving parts of the engine clear of the surface of the oil in the sump. There does not need to be actual contact with the oil surface, "windage" can be sufficient to generate churning. If there is actual contact then it may be sufficient to cause mechanical damage.

A number of problems arise from churning. The oil may be emulsified so that the pressure on the output side of the pump reduces; oil may be splashed into the lower part of the engine cylinders and be carried past the pistons so that oil is burned with all the consequent effects that result.

There may be other problems in particular engines - oil being drawn up a breather tube for example.

Manufacturers will generally try to provide adequate "freeboard" so that overfilling a little may do no harm, but in modern compact engines where space is at a premium, damage is more likely and it pays to be careful.

[timberwolf]

Thank you Sagitar for the informative post.

Unfortunately, I don't remember any details and I naively thought the oil pressure in the sump would be lowest in the engine.