Hybrid Saloon?

[RunningInPleasePass]

Do you think there is a market for a saloon hybrid?

I have an hatchback, and I can't for the life of me think what is the advantage of hatchbacks against a saloon, I know that hatchbacks are supposed to be more versatile, let the back seats down for more load space, but in my case I've never had to do this!

Is the load carrying advantage of a hatchback ever used by anybody, or do we buy them because we have no other choice?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

In Europe hatchbacks just seem more popular. Small(er) saloons just don't seem to sell in many markets. I think Ireland get the Corolla saloon which we don't get.

http://www.toyota.ie/models/corolla/index.json

In the US they get the Camry hybrid which is also made in Australia in RHD form. I guess a saloon Prius would eat into sales on the Camry in the US. In Japan they have a saloon version of the Prius called the Sai but again this isn't imported to the UK, probably because it would eat into sales of the Auris.

http://www.toyota.ie/models/corolla/index.json

Personally I like saloons but it appears I'm in a minority.

[FROSTYBALLS]

In the States they also have the Avalon Hybrid saloon in addition to the Camry. The Camry is currently also assembled in Australia, but Toyota are pulling out of production totally in Australia in 2017.

The preference for hatchbacks within Europe is stronger in the UK - saloons just don't sell as well as their hatchback counterparts here. Which is why the Turkish made Corolla saloon was dropped in 2007, and why the saloon versions of the Focus and Astra are no longer sold here.

In the past we've bought hatchbacks in preference to saloons, as we do use all of the boot space with the rear seats folded forwards when we go on holiday, and we found the hatchbacks a bit more practical.

[timberwolf]

I've always preferred hatchbacks, and yes I use the seats folded down when I want to carry stuff. If I had the money and the space, I would have different vehicles for different purposes, but a hatchback makes a useful compromise.

[Ethanedwards]

I use my Yaris to take my Radio Control airplane to my Model Flying club field. With the fuel, field box transmitter etc it's a lot of stuff. So my back seat is folded down almost every other day! The wings alone are pretty big then theres the fuselage andyou see that I need a hatchback as a minimum. Maybe a small van even.

Here's a picture just like my plane.

link

[Dapple]

I have just had an Avensis saloon hire car whilst my Prius was repaired.

The kids persuaded me to buy a big Christmas tree early seeing as I had such a "big" car. Big mistake.

I'd forgotten what it was like to have a car you can't get things in! So now I have the Prius back I have got the tree home!

Reminds me when I had a Mondeo ST24 saloon and I bought a 28" cathode ray tube (remember them) television. No way would it go in that massive boot or in a rear door.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

We've had salons and hatchbacks, and I personally can't see a single advantage as to why people would have a preference to be over a hatchback, or am I missing something.

As above, try getting a fridge or large boxed CRT tv in the back of a salon.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Suppose hatchbacks are easier if you have a dog

[PeteB]

Personally, I prefer saloons but for one thing - I hate, REALLY hate, not having a rear wiper.

Over the years, a few saloons have been sold with a rear wiper (using a hole 'drilled' into the rear window), but they've often not been sold in the UK (Toyota Corolla was one example). Ford Orion was sold in the UK with a rear wiper. It's another thing I wish was an option on more cars.

Both my Gen 1 Prius were saloons, but they still had folding rear seats (in the UK - for some reason the US versions didn't) - I was even able to bring a bike home in mine. I sorely missed the rear wiper though, especially when all the windows fogged up on the M1 early in the morning - it didn't have heated mirrors either. A real pain reversing into a parking space in heavy rain too.

I hardly ever use the hatchback facility, even though every car I've had since 1980 (except the 2 Gen 1 Prius) have been hatchbacks.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Funny you should mention the Ford Orion having a rear wiper, that was one of the Salons Parents had, was a top spec 'Ghia' from memory, even had a CD player, rather special back in the 90s for a 1991 registered car.

I believe the 2003> Avensis salon also had a rear wiper in the UK didn't it?

[JSHarris]

Personally I only bought a Prius when the Gen II came out as a hatchback. I really liked the Gen 1, but the fact that it was a saloon ruled it out for me, as I've learned over the years that I have a frequent need for an easy to access large load area in any car I own (or use a trailer).

I very frequently (as in at least a couple of times a week) carry 2m plus long cargo in my Prius (last week was an oak internal door and lining, plus a load of 2.4m long studs). I can get 3m long stuff in there if I rest it on the nearside dash (with the front seat folded back and the headrest off, and some padding on the dash). The back seats of my Prius stay almost permanently folded down and covered with a protective blanket, as I very frequently carry big boxes that fill the whole load area.

I guess it depends very much on what you use your car for. 90% or the time mine is used with just me in it going to and from the new house I'm building, it's only quite rarely that I'll carry a passenger, and even rarer that I'l carry more than one passenger and have to put the rear seats up.

[Chris Dance]

When I was a musician I had to carry a lot of gear to gigs therefore an estate or hatchback was essential. When my wife was working she had a Mazda saloon and then a Toyota Carina. When she retired only required one car and since then we have had an Avensis and 3 Prius. Even as retired folk we could not cope without the Hatchback. Taking stuff to the dump transferring unwanted furniture etc.requires a hatchback.

My neighbour has a Vauxhall saloon and he is always complaining about the boot size. When his family go on holiday they hire a 8 seater taxi. as they need to take prams etc for the grandchild. Even with a Roof Rack his car is inadequate for all his needs.

Hatchback for me every time.

[RunningInPleasePass]

It looks like I'm in a minority here, I've had a Toyota Auris for nearly 4 years now and never once let the back seats down.

Prior to the Auris I had saloons, mostly VW Passat, and I prefer them, far larger boots, and just look and feel more up market, I think when I start to research for my next car, I will have to go to a size bigger then the Auris, if funds permit a Lexus IS would be just about right.

By the way, the other car in our household, a Toyota IQ, has never had the back seats up!

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Passat is from the next market sector, so would be more comparable to the Avensis, whereas the Auris is in the same market sector as the Golf/Jetta.

[Dapple]

It looks like I'm in a minority here, I think when I start to research for my next car, I will have to go to a size bigger then the Auris

You need a Skoda Superb then, which is both a saloon and a hatchback!

One button opens the boot as a boot, another opens it as a hatch.

[Duffryn]

Funny you should mention the Ford Orion having a rear wiper, that was one of the Salons Parents had, was a top spec 'Ghia' from memory, even had a CD player, rather special back in the 90s for a 1991 registered car.

I believe the 2003> Avensis salon also had a rear wiper in the UK didn't it?

Actually no it didn't - at least my '07 T3-X didn't, but tbh I never found the lack of to be a serious problem.

My son had a T3-X hatchback at the same time, and I always reckoned my saloon to be quieter inside than his. I was also told by some sales exec that the saloons were of a more rigid construction, but then, he was trying to flog me one!

I generally prefer the look of saloons too, although I'm quite happy with the Prius design. Just hope the Toyota architects don't go too way out (as they're prone to imo) with the next model. Just design out those damn rattles and squeaks guys.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Well the Americans prefer saloons and talk on the US forum for the new gen4 is that it should be a saloon, no flying bridge, bigger, wider, faster lol. Those Americans eh?

But whilst saloons aren't as flexible as a hatch - I know from the taxi job where you could almost get a second suitcase in one but not quite whereas a hatch would allow three or four - they are much quieter and easier to warm up inside. I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

The option for both would be interesting, though I think EU crash testing now requires all variants of the car to be individually crash tested, bumping up costs. Shame.

But if we're not going to get a hybrid Avensis then a saloon Prius would be a good second.

[Heidfirst]

"My son had a T3-X hatchback at the same time, and I always reckoned my saloon to be quieter inside than his. I was also told by some sales exec that the saloons were of a more rigid construction, but then, he was trying to flog me one!"

It's perfectly normal for saloons to be more rigid & quieter than hatchbacks. & the noisiest & most flexible (in more ways than one ;) ) variants are estates.

[kithmo]

I use my Yaris to take my Radio Control airplane to my Model Flying club field. With the fuel, field box transmitter etc it's a lot of stuff. So my back seat is folded down almost every other day! The wings alone are pretty big then theres the fuselage andyou see that I need a hatchback as a minimum. Maybe a small van even.

Here's a picture just like my plane.

link

The yaris is a small car anyway, you'd probably get all your stuff in a mid size saloon boot with no problem and the wings would fit in the drop down Ski hole in the rear seat that some saloons have or some have a 60:40 split rear seat back that drops down. I had a Mk3 Mondeo V6 saloon followed by a Mk3 Mondeo TDCi hatchback and they had equal amount of room in the boot apart from a little more height in the front half on the hatch. A saloon is more secure as you can't access the boot from inside the car (unless the seat is down)

[RunningInPleasePass]

I think the Prius is perhaps one of the most saloon like looking hatchbacks about at the moment, I think it's because the rear tailgate is sloping as opposed to a vertical wall in the Auris!

I'm interested to see what the next Prius will look like, the things I would like to see:

A better quality interior, less plastic.

Keep the HUD.

Do away with the 'flying bridge' centre console.

Give an option for saloon version.

A spare wheel.

I've read a few reports on what to expect from the next Prius, and the only one I don't like the sound of is it moving up market and becoming more expensive!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I've read a few reports on what to expect from the next Prius, and the only one I don't like the sound of is it moving up market and becoming more expensive!

A more upmarket Toyota? That'll be a Lexus then. The Lexus CT200h which costs less than the Prius.

[Heidfirst]

"The Lexus CT200h which costs less than the Prius"

but more than the Auris hybrid that it is based on.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Do away with the 'flying bridge' centre console.

What is it so many don't like about this out of interest?

Personally a bit of a fan myself.

[PeteB]

The 'flying bridge', as Toyota called it, seems to be a bit of a Marmite thing.

My own views are:

• I find some of the switches mounted on the top of it quite convenient, BUT
  
• the space below is awkward to reach (a lot of wasted space IMHO) (Gen 1 & 2 Prius had a drawer in the bottom of the armrest - nicely concealed, and very useful)
  
• the 12v socket and switches mounted below (heated seats, master CCTV power) are awkward to reach
  
• unless you're thin and agile (I'm neither!) climbing across from the passenger seat is impossible (it's annoying having to wait 2 hours for someone to return after they've parked so close to the driver's door you can't get in!)
  
• a remote possibility, but it does happen now and again - if the driver has a heart attack or something, no passenger can reach the parking or service brake (Toyota actually published a letter in the magazine they used to send out from a Gen 2 owner where that had happened, but because of the open plan front, the front passenger was able to reach a brake pedal. As they had been doing 70 mph, it's quite possible the five people in the Prius and some others could have been killed or seriously injured if they'd been in a Gen 3 - the owner finished their letter by saying she applauded cars like the (then) Prius and would always buy cars with this open plan design in future - I wonder what she made of the bridge?

OK, that last one was a bit extreme, and a lone driver is no better off either way, but it does seem to me a bit silly to block off all access to emergency braking capability for passengers just for a bit of fancy design. There was even a case reported in the news a year or two back where a 13 year old boy stopped a school bus where the driver had a heart attack at the wheel and he had the presence of mind to go to the front, grab the wheel, and put his foot on the brake.

One of the reasons I delayed buying another Prius was the flying bridge - I've too often had to climb across the car when I used to drive in London, and indeed around East Anglia where I now live they seem to paint parking spaces measured against 1950s car sizes, which makes parking with a chance of getting back in the driver's door a challenge much of the time.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Do away with the 'flying bridge' centre console.

What is it so many don't like about this out of interest?

Personally a bit of a fan myself.

Me too. It was ideal in the taxi job. Somewhere for your radio to hide (and cash) and it also stopped fat people flowing over your handbrake and gearstick.