Should We Have To Pay Extra For This?

[stompe]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114112685010/toyota-introduces-new-safety-tech-will-begin-rolling-out

[FROSTYBALLS]

No manufacturer is going to introduce additional technology into their cars without the consumer paying for it in some way. The cost either gets added to the list price, and thus becomes hidden, or the new tech is made available as an option. Either way the consumer still pays.

[stompe]

Agree, but if its Safety related, i don't think we should.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Automated full beam? Nah sounds a nightmare on winding country roads or even in town. You're waiting at a junction and some tw*t comes down the road with full beam on as their car hasn't detected you. Load of cobblers. These things would be great if they worked right but automated wipers are an example of this sort of thing that is an almost unworkable gimmick.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Agree, but if its Safety related, i don't think we should.

But why should I have to pay £2k extra for a car with it as standard when I can drive a car just as well without it, and save £2k.

If you think you'll need it then cough up and pay - thats my to the point view anyway.

[stompe]

So do you not want Anti-lock brakes, seat belt tensioners? etc.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

So do you not want Anti-lock brakes, seat belt tensioners? etc.

Passive safety yes, Active safety doesn't bother me.

The point I'm trying to make is that someone has to pay for this, and I think people should be given the choice when it comes to certain things.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

So do you not want Anti-lock brakes, seat belt tensioners? etc.

Passive safety yes, Active safety doesn't bother me.

The point I'm trying to make is that someone has to pay for this, and I think people should be given the choice when it comes to certain things.

Good Lord I'm agreeing with you! It must be Christmas.

[stompe]

My view is quite simple, if it saves lives, it should be free.

[Heidfirst]

Why? If it costs to develop & implement the tech who is to pay for that? As they say " you don't get owt for nowt".

[stompe]

Considering we pay nearly double for our cars, compared to America, im sure production wise it can easily be swallowed up, we soon have to have Tyre pressure sensors by law, should we bare the cost of that too?

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Considering we pay nearly double for our cars, compared to America, im sure production wise it can easily be swallowed up, we soon have to have Tyre pressure sensors by law, should we bare the cost of that too?

Well we will be ultimately, you don't get anything for nothing, another pointless feature in my opinion but thats for another discussion.

[Heidfirst]

Considering we pay nearly double for our cars, compared to America, im sure production wise it can easily be swallowed up, we soon have to have Tyre pressure sensors by law, should we bare the cost of that too?

Already here - as of November 2014 all new passenger vehicles have to have TPMS installed by the manufacturer. & if it costs to manufacture & install then yes, the end user pays for it.

If you think that is bad you should see the figures that the car manufacturers reckon that it will cost to meet future Euro emissions legislation & that will have to be added to the price of a car at retail ...

[Devon Aygo]

Considering we pay nearly double for our cars, compared to America, im sure production wise it can easily be swallowed up, we soon have to have Tyre pressure sensors by law, should we bare the cost of that too?

New Yaris already includes tyre pressure sensors and guess what! The customer pays for it, when the new 2014 Yaris was introduced the costs increased to include them.

Very little can be "swallowed up" by production, when the EU demand additional safety equipment Toyota add it and You pay for it , Toyota exist like any company to make a profit.

[stompe]

They robbed us of £5000 government grant, talk about rob us British, anyway Hyundai will take over from Toyota in the not to distant future.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Hyundai/Kia are currently in 5th place in the rankings of car manufacturing, so quite some way to go before they can challenge for the no 1 place, and they have another 3 manufacturers to get past to do this.

Euro NCAP are said to be revising the car safety testing regime in 2016. The five star cars of today, will effectively become two star rated. The additional three stars to be awarded on a combination of additional safety features such as lane guidance systems, etc, and sales. It is thought the premium manufacturers (Mercedes, etc) who have high profit margins will offer the additional safety systems to acheive the five stars, although retaining this level will depend on how many cars they actually sell with the additional systems. Poor sales will mean a loss in the star ratings.

[PeteB]

When these things become produced in large quantity the cost per vehicle falls and they eventually become standard.

ABS, then ESP (VSC in Toyota parlance), the next big thing is AEB, and as Frosty says not having it available and sold on sufficient models will cost valuable (to manufacturers) NCAP stars. No doubt it will gradually become standard on more expensive cars, and in a few years on virtually all cars.

ABS - Antilock Braking System

ESP - Electronic Stability Program

VSC - Vehicle stability Control

AEB - Autonomous Emergency Braking

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Whats the difference between ESP and VSC then Pete? Or are they the same just with different names depending upon vehicle age?

[PeteB]

Same thing - ESP is the generic industry term, VSC is what Toyota calls theirs

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Considering we pay nearly double for our cars, compared to America, im sure production wise it can easily be swallowed up, we soon have to have Tyre pressure sensors by law, should we bare the cost of that too?

But we don't pay double. It almost works out $ for £'s though but when you factor in the 10% import duty for cars built outside the EU and then add 20% vat you'll find that the US pay virtually the same for their like for like cars as we do. Obviously the trick is to find an identical car sold in both places but they are out there. A few years ago I looked into the cost of the base t3 Prius against the US Prius III and we paid about £1,000 more but our prices were 'on the road', whereas the US pay for delivery as an extra due to the size of the country. I also calculated the comparison with the Nissan Leaf and on that car there was barely any difference, meaning we were paying slightly less taking into account the 'on the road' benefits.

However, the US pay much more for the BMW i3 than we do in Europe and the PIP is much more expensive here than there.

[cuius]

Given that Toyota introduction of these technologies seems to be 2-3 years behind other manufacturers, let's hope they've sorted them out and these aren't potential future recalls

[FROSTYBALLS]

Given that Toyota introduction of these technologies seems to be 2-3 years behind other manufacturers, let's hope they've sorted them out and these aren't potential future recalls

As regards recalls, the same applies equally as well to any manufacturer usihg these technologies.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Toyota are usually at the forefront of introducing new technologies. The problem seems to be that they don't shout about them. Good example is self parking. Ford are making pushing this on their Focus adverts like it's something new and something they invented. Toyota have had it since 2008 and possibly earlier I think. They just don't shout about it.

They should, or should have. Their advertising is questionable at least. Their latest offerings are just people singing dreadful tunes whilst 'enjoying' themselves. Might work in France or Spain where they're obviously made, but they're just dreadful here. Even my dad who's in his 80's said "oh no, not this awful advert again" when the singing man in his Auris in India came on - again.

Regarding Toyota recalls. They're a good thing. Just look at the way Fiat are handling the safety issue where some of their cars refuse to drive up hills. "Erm, yeah, erm right, I think we'll look at it in the new year, erm like maybe March". Give Toyota credit, they'd have it sorted as a recall NOW, today.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/56231/problem-with-fiat-500-and-panda-1-2-eu-6-engine-pulling-away-especially-on-hill-starts

http://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/fiat-500-powerful-enough-hills-says-bbcs-watchdog-1107954951

[PeteB]

...Toyota introduction of these technologies seems to be 2-3 years behind other manufacturers...

Sometimes...

They were about 20 years late with heated door mirrors, and 10 years late with folding ones, and my 2012 Prius still only fold whilst in Ready or ACC mode! Which means if I want to check the mirror before opening the door, it's tricky.

A former member of my team had a 10 year old Fiesta, and his folded and unfolded when the worked the remote locking! (did he used to tease me about my ancient tech Prius!)

[PeteB]

...Regarding Toyota recalls. They're a good thing...

absolutely agree with that!