Prius Plug In To Be Used In London As Private Hire Cabs

[FROSTYBALLS]

See Toyota UK Blog - http://blog.toyota.co.uk/prius-plug-in-joins-the-ranks-of-londons-private-hire-cabs-with-openstart#.VH5BWRH3uZc

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Interesting.

All of its new vehicles are being supplied with a charging cable that will allow no-fuss connection to public charging points across London.

A shame that these are not included as standard with all PiPs.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Green wash PR.

I was a private taxi driver and ran the car 10-12 hours a day covering 30/35k a year which works out about 120/150 miles a day give or take. 10 miles EV is nothing. It's not worth bothering with other than maybe first thing in a morning. The extra cost and hassle of plugging in to get your 15 miles max isn't worth doing at any other time. And if you do plug it in twice a day that means nearly 700 times you insert and remove the plug. You'll need a new socket every couple years. Is there any other electrical appliance at home that you'd do that for?

I looked at the PIP before it was released and the high cost announced and it wasn't viable even at £1.40 a litre as it was back then. A plug in taxi/private hire is an ideal solution to cutting emissions, improving air quality and reducing costs so long as the electric range was useful. An Ampera would have been a good bet IF it had had 5 seats and a bigger boot.

So back to the article. It's greenwash fud - sorry.

[IanIanIanIan]

I don't know how much waiting time a taxi gets a day, but watching them at our local (rural) railway station thay could take advantage of a charge for the 10-15 minutes they are there. At 10 miles per hour charging rate they could pick up two or three miles range which would half or more their consumption for the next journey. You don't have to take on a full charge every time. Problems of course with accessible points and enough of them.

I doubt that would apply in the city, but I wonder about future wireless charging in taxi ranks though. Some bus companies seem to make it work.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Green wash PR.

I was a private taxi driver and ran the car 10-12 hours a day covering 30/35k a year which works out about 120/150 miles a day give or take. 10 miles EV is nothing. It's not worth bothering with other than maybe first thing in a morning. The extra cost and hassle of plugging in to get your 15 miles max isn't worth doing at any other time. And if you do plug it in twice a day that means nearly 700 times you insert and remove the plug. You'll need a new socket every couple years. Is there any other electrical appliance at home that you'd do that for?

I looked at the PIP before it was released and the high cost announced and it wasn't viable even at £1.40 a litre as it was back then. A plug in taxi/private hire is an ideal solution to cutting emissions, improving air quality and reducing costs so long as the electric range was useful. An Ampera would have been a good bet IF it had had 5 seats and a bigger boot.

So back to the article. It's greenwash fud - sorry.

Agreed to be honest, I was thinking the same about how much wait time they get.

Not sure I agree about the charging connector breaking mind, but certainly can't see much of a benefit of a PiP when the price premium is taken into account. The only slight advantage it may have is the acclaimed increase in normal HV MPG due to being a lithium-ion Battery which accepts regen charge better and quicker over the standard Prius Battery. Again doubt this'll be enough to warrant the higher sticker price though.

[FROSTYBALLS]

From an earlier topic - http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/158061-stock-plug-in/?hl=%2Bprius+%2Bplug

which reckoned Toyota had 186 Prius Plug Ins in stock in May 2014, this fleet of 80 should be a healthy reduction in that stock.

Wonder what fleet discount OpenStart would have got.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Regarding taxi's waiting at ranks. If there is a compatible way of BEVs and PlugIns having wireless charging, then that's the way forward for sure. A taxi rank would be ideal for such technology - should it ever get to market.

The trouble with ranks is that they are always moving. It may not seem like it when you drive or walk past one, but every minute or so (sometimes longer) all the cars shuffle up when car at the front get a job. You couldn't be messing about pluging in, out, in, out etc. It just wouldn't work. Also, people are always in a rush. If I get out to mess about unpluging my car for even 10 seconds, the passenger will have jumped out and into another cab. Even if they didn't, you don't want to leave a stranger in your cab with your cash box/phone/sat nav whilst you get out for 10 seconds.

There is then the issue of cost. The bus companies get significant Government investment/grants/tax breaks etc. Taxi drivers get none. The taxi at your local station are probably having to pay thousands of £'s a year to the station just to pick up there. The station make money by having them there. The rail companies are not going to pay to instal chargers or wireless charge points. The cabbies aren't either as they usually renew their rail contracts every 12 months and might be there the next year.

Councils are in charge of the street ranks and they won't invest anything. The money for the white lines and signs at taxi ranks are paid for by the taxi's annual charges to the council who generally want to break even at least (maintaining ranks, staff wages, massive pensions, sick pay etc). They're not going to agree to installing chargers at £thousands just to benefit a few drivers who want to save a few quid.

Hybrids and longer range plug in's could be viable in the taxi trade. There are none of the latter that are viable for taxi work - 5 large® seats, 350+ litre boot etc.

And at the end of the day, you're paying £25k for a car with a very finite life when the guy on the rank next to you will have paid £4k for his 3 year old Mondeo, which also has a very finite life but at much less outlay.

[PeteB]

In London, the Private Hire vehicles can't use the taxi ranks, but if they subscribe to a charging networks there are a large number of EV plugin points at the roadside.

They're often vacant, and apart from the charing aspect, can be a real benefit to a London PVH driver where finding somewhere to wait between jobs can be a nightmare in itself, especially as the council use CCTV as a cash machine for people who stop briefly in restricted areas.

Companies using Prius and the like are generally competing with other companies using similar cars, or recent E class or similar, so if they can get a Prius plugin for nearer the price of a T3/T4 they're not doing so badly.

The biggest drawback of the plug in for PHV work is the loss of the space under the boot floor and the spare wheel.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

London and its taxi/private hire/minicab market is different to the rest of the UK. Not just in how the legalities of the cabs work but in the affluent market, which also has problems as outlined above.

There are many many cities in the UK where plug ins could work with support. York have tried but they came against brick walls. An example is they wanted all cabs to be black to give a smart, consistent vehicle type. This was objected to by a handful of drivers saying that they had to pay more for black vehicles and made it harder to find a second hand car. It went to court and the drivers won.

When they were looking at my Prius 'taxi' back in 2010 they asked why I chose black. I said it was because it was the cheapest colour - which it was. They laughed considering the above court case which they'd just lost.

If you have that nonsense going on, how are they going to insist on plug ins or charge posts? Money doesn't grow on trees, especially so outside London.

[johalareewi]

pay more for black vehicles

I remember those days.

I also found it amusing that black was the cheapest colour when I bought the prius gen3.

[IanIanIanIan]

What happens when central London becomes a Zero Emissions Zone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25756929

[Grumpy Cabbie]

There'll be a crossover period of a few years by which time those PIP's will be worn out and onto pastures new.

What cars will the fleet use then? Goodness knows. Maybe hydrogen? Maybe a better ranged plug in from either Toyota or whoever offers the best product at that time?

Maybe the Tesla 3 will be out then and very cost effective?

Whatever happens it'll be great for London as at the moment the air there is nasty. I don't think Londoners notice but it really stinks for those of us who live in the country :)

[timberwolf]

A long time ago, I lived in Harrogate on Station Parade opposite the Catholic Church, I think the house was knocked down to make way for a by-pass (erm no that's not right), I mean a supermarket. The window ledges were usually covered in a black layer of soot, I assumed from the traffic, it was probably cleaner than London but I didn't like it.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Exactly. If it's that bad in a small town that gets lots of fresh air blown in from the Yorkshire Dales, imagine how bad it is in London which consistently fails legal limits.

[PeteB]

...I lived in Harrogate on Station Parade... The window ledges were usually covered in a black layer of soot, I assumed from the traffic...

I had that when I lived in Rochester in the late 1980s, within sight of the main London to Dover railway line - I believe the soot came mostly from the trains (electric conduction contacts [i think they used 3rd rail there then] and brake dust too, I suspect).

The major road links were probably too far away for much of it to be own to traffic, but I could be wrong.

[IanIanIanIan]

I was brought up on the South coast. As a kid's special treat we occasionally went 'up to town'. I have vivid memories of travelling home on the train and blowing my nose, leaving huge dense black streaks across the handkerchief. That was before smokeless zones and in the era of frequent 'smogs'.

Bad days, it is getting better.

Grumpy. Yes today's PiPs will be razor blades when London is ZEZoned but it is a small step forward. Little by little, drop by drop it will happen.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Grumpy. Yes today's PiPs will be razor blades when London is ZEZoned but it is a small step forward. Little by little, drop by drop it will happen.

Oh I support that.

Bring on more zero or low emission zones. I'm all for that.

Update: I then saw this when searching for pollution stories;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861766/Oxford-Street-bad-health-Just-two-hours-exposed-pollution-buses-taxis-cause-respiratory-problems.html

Pretty much criminal. It doesn't cost much to reduce the emissions on a bus. Many places and countries already have. What about converting the buses used on Oxford Street routes to lpg or gas which significantly reduces emissions. York have done that sort of thing before. It's really strange having a bus go by and not get blasted by smelly exhaust. And then there are electric buses which don't pump anything out at street level. York has a fleet of 15 of those so far and they're strange. Sitting on a bus that's totally quiet. You have to try it!

Things can be done if there's a will. I bet if Boris or one of his love childs got ill because of the pollution things would change overnight.

[PeteB]

I was brought up on the South coast. As a kid's special treat we occasionally went 'up to town'. I have vivid memories of travelling home on the train and blowing my nose, leaving huge dense black streaks across the handkerchief...

now that you mention it, after a day London in the 1970s when I grew up in Surrey (actually, I never did grow up!) my Mum would grumble about my (white) shirt collar being black and having to "rub it out" before washing it.

[barrycoll]

White Prius and white IQ, if washed in the morning then they are grubby in the afternoon on a Nth London driveway...

On the other hand, my 1960s black Mini Cooper which was washed every day, was in a worse mess when I lived just behind Bondi Beach, Sydney, as the salt rolled in every day, and rust was a killer (to the car!)

[timberwolf]

...I lived in Harrogate on Station Parade... The window ledges were usually covered in a black layer of soot, I assumed from the traffic...

I had that when I lived in Rochester in the late 1980s, within sight of the main London to Dover railway line - I believe the soot came mostly from the trains (electric conduction contacts [i think they used 3rd rail there then] and brake dust too, I suspect).

The major road links were probably too far away for much of it to be own to traffic, but I could be wrong.

There was the railway line behind the property, behind a two storey outbuilding, but if I recall the road was one of the main routes out of Harrogate and there was at the time a large bus station next to the railway station.