Oh Dear

[stompe]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114121585921/next-gen-toyota-prius-launch-pushed-back-until-late-2015

[FROSTYBALLS]

So ..... its been delayed.

Toyota are not the only manufacturer to either delay new cars or bring forward development of replacements.

Two examples -

The North American Ford Fusion (their version of the Mondeo) was launched almost 3 years before the European Mondeo, due to Ford's European re-structuring, which reduced their production capacity too much in Europe.

A few months after the VW Golf V was launched, VW began work on the Golf VI to counter criticisms of the Golf V's downgraded interior and because the Golf V was too expensive to build.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

In the UK we usually get the car about 3-6 months later than the US. If it's late 2015 for them, it'll be early 2016 for us. That's a year from now. The gen3 will be seriously long in the tooth by then.

But will falling sales (projected to be worse ever since 2005), has Toyota UK just got bored of the Prius? If the gen4 is anything other than a plug in, I'll be surprised. Sad as it's real world economy puts Toyotas other hybrid models to shame, despite them being officially more efficient.

[Joseph D]

I'd rather they took the time to get it right than do a Microsoft and use the customer base as free beta testers. :)

[stompe]

Toyota use there customer base to test the vehicles, Hence why so many recalls, The main test seems to be only extreme weather testing now days.

[Chris Dance]

When I bought our new Prius last August the salesman stated that the Gen 4 would not be available to them until late 2015. Looks like his crystal ball was correct.!!

[Parts-King]

What a load of rubbish that story is.

So one man in Toyota global does not like the design and it gets pushed back? I have never heard such BS, ridiculous.

It is not ready for production for whatever reason.....end of

It was due late 15 for sure, I think there is some scaremongering going on by some press

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Oooh, has a nerve been touched? :)

There is a lot of competition out there for low(er) emission cars out there now. Just perusing the UK EV forums of which there are lots of active owners as well as lots of models available, and many new cars coming out - Audi E-tron, VW e-Golf etc.

Toyota made a niche for themeselves with the Prius back in 2001 (earlier in Japan), and had the segment to themselves. Now the competition is hotting up and nothing, nothing at all to report from Toyota other the gen4 is delayed.

If the gen4 isn't HOT and the PIP well priced, then Toyota will loose sales.

[Parts-King]

No problem with competition, not in the slightest, this has nothing to do with competition but clap trap journalism. Manufacturers push back sale dates for all sorts of reasons, and the launch dates are not generally plucked out of thin air. The dates are carefully picked to fall into line with other model and other manufacturer launch dates. I doubt for one second it has anything to do with the boss not liking it very much!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Oooh, has a nerve been touched? :)

There is a lot of competition out there for low(er) emission cars out there now. Just perusing the UK EV forums of which there are lots of active owners as well as lots of models available, and many new cars coming out - Audi E-tron, VW e-Golf etc.

Toyota made a niche for themeselves with the Prius back in 2001 (earlier in Japan), and had the segment to themselves. Now the competition is hotting up and nothing, nothing at all to report from Toyota other the gen4 is delayed.

If the gen4 isn't HOT and the PIP well priced, then Toyota will loose sales.

Isn't this forgetting the Auris Hybrid (both hatchback and Touring Sports), the Yaris Hybrid, and the Prius+, all of which have had specification revisions or facelifts during 2014/2015.

[stompe]

Isn't that to iron the faults of the previous models?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

And they weren't mentioned because this thread was discussing the delay of the much awaited gen4.

I can bring up the Auris and Yaris HSD and their marvelous official mpg figures that just seem to exist purely on paper. At least the Prius manages to achieve it's - just. People used to mock the Prius on here about how it could never achieve the official mpg figures and we (the collective lol) would refute that with evidence. Quite a contrast to the Auris & Yaris HSD's whose mpg figures are plucked straight out of cloud cuckoo land.

Once word gets out about the hybrids that really aren't economical, the HSD brand will lost credibility. So I repeat, the gen4 had better be bl**dy good, or owners will move to the plentiful pastures new.

[Joseph D]

Toyota use there customer base to test the vehicles, Hence why so many recalls, The main test seems to be only extreme weather testing now days.

I don't know why you're singling out Toyota, after all, all companies release their finished product for sale. Some companies release their products before they have completed all their testing leaving it customers to find the faults.

Even after extensive testing, which would include user acceptance testing, faults can be found in the field, because customers may use products in ways not envisaged by manufacturers, e. g. inadvertently bumping the emergency flasher button, and so take the product down an untested path.

To say Toyota has "so many recalls" is a disingenuous exaggeration, but at least when a fault is found, Toyota take responsibility for retrofitting the fix to the existing fleet at no cost to the owner to ensure safety and reliability. All the times I have heard of a fault about a Toyota, it has usually has come from Toyota issuing a press release saying,"hey folks we found a problem, but don't worry we're going to fix at no cost to you." I like that.

I'd much rather support a company that is open and transparent in this way than some of the others out there that deny, head bury and all manner of other behaviours to avoid doing the right thing.

[Joseph D]

What a load of rubbish that story is.

So one man in Toyota global does not like the design and it gets pushed back? I have never heard such BS, ridiculous.

It is not ready for production for whatever reason.....end of

It was due late 15 for sure, I think there is some scaremongering going on by some press

Understanding a little about Japanese culture, I can quite believe it.

However, I totally agree there are probably a whole lot of other reasons why there have been delays.

The press are renowned for not letting the facts get in the way of a good story.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Oooh, has a nerve been touched? :)

There is a lot of competition out there for low(er) emission cars out there now. Just perusing the UK EV forums of which there are lots of active owners as well as lots of models available, and many new cars coming out - Audi E-tron, VW e-Golf etc.

Toyota made a niche for themeselves with the Prius back in 2001 (earlier in Japan), and had the segment to themselves. Now the competition is hotting up and nothing, nothing at all to report from Toyota other the gen4 is delayed.

If the gen4 isn't HOT and the PIP well priced, then Toyota will loose sales.

Yes, the topic was re the Prius, but you bought other cars into the equation (ie the Audi and the Golf).

The post above implies that the Prius is the only mid-size tool that Toyota has to combat cars like the Golf e-tron. Whereas Toyota also has the European built Auris Hybrid in both hatchback and touring forms, which, in Hybrid form and based on Toyota's own European sales figures for January to June 2014 outsold the Prius slightly more than 8.6 to 1.

In Europe Prius sales have declined year on year since their peak of 42,600 in 2009, to 11,600 in 2013, and 5,200 for the period January-September 2014 - so in Europe, the Prius is never going to compete effectively by itself with the Golf e-tron. The Prius, until recently, also had the handicap of the unfavourable exchange rates between the Japanese and European currencies, which made the Prius comparatively expensive to sell in Europe compared to European-produced models like the Golf and the Auris.

I suppose if Prius sales continue to decline, it may go the same way as the IQ.

Isn't that to iron the faults of the previous models?

Revising specifications, as Toyota did with the Auris in the summer, was partly to ensure the car complied with forthcoming EU legislation (ie the incorporation of a TPMS), and also re-aligned the grades - no major work there to correct faults.

The Yaris was due a mid-life facelift, and there were also adjustments to the steering and suspension. The interior was improved in quality and presumably the Yaris received the same re-worked 1 litre engine engine that the new Aygo has - so, yes, there was some action there to correct faults.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Oh course Prius sales have collapsed. Toyota Europe have priced it that way. It has increased in cost significantly in the last 5 years whereas other cars haven't by as much. It seemed to start with the PIP being introduced at £32k (before £5k grant), which was taking the ****.

Toyota market share is falling. If you work for Toyota, I hope you're happy with that. Toyotas complacency is costing sales and ultimately your commissions/earnings.

But Toyota can charge what they want for their cars. And I, and others can choose not to buy one next time round.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The point that you repeatedly fail to grasp is that the exchange rate issues between the Japanese and European currencies, which until the last couple of months have made Japanese-built vehicles more expensive in Europe, have more of an effect on European pricing than what the importing organisation would like to charge. This is why the Urban Cruiser, the Verso S and the IQ have been withdrawn from some European markets - manufacturing them in Japan has made them expensive to sell in Europe.

Toyota Europe aren't going to sell the Prius at a loss.

Toyota's European market share, along with most other manufacturers, fell in 2009, but is now being clawed back. Market share in 2007 was 5.7%, 2008 5.18%, 2009 4.88%, 2010 4.29%, 2011 3.96%, 2012 4.13% and 2013 4.16%, and they are hoping to achieve nearer to 5% for 2014.

Toyota's own sales figures and market share for the UK are:

2000 101,436 3.76%

2001 98,160 3.90%

2002 104,498 4.07%

2003 117,537 4.55%

2004 121,088 4.72%

2005 122,536 5.02%

2006 117,813 5.02%

2007 118,409 4.92%

2008 106,412 4.99%

2009 102.686 5.10%

2010 87,413 4.30%

2011 73,581 3.80%

2012 84,554 4.18%

2013 83,653 3.90%

2014 76,059 3.90% - YEAR TO SEPTEMBER

I don't work for Toyota, nor any other car manufacturer, and never have, so the comment about commission/earnings is just irrelevant.

Toyota Owners Club is not associated with Toyota (hence the disclaimer at the bottom of each page).

[Parts-King]

, so the comment about commission/earnings is just irrelevant.

I think that was aimed at me

I am glad to say that does not apply to me either

Of course I care about Toyota, I earn my living by Lindop Toyota selling their products, but there is one thing I can assure you of, Toyota are NOT complacent with sales or market share. In fact, in years gone by, manufacturers did everything possible for market share, Toyota included. This meant registering vehicles, very different from SELLING retail vehicles, hence a raft of pre-registered cars up for sale. Toyota now concentrate on sales, not registrations. I cannot vouch for their marketing plans,if a car is overpriced, it just does not sell, so I don't accept the complacency theory. They will do everything they can to sell, but that may include bringing in fewer Prius, and selling more Hybrids that are made here

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Ah, the old currency fluctuations excuse?

How come Lexus can sell their CT200h for less than the Prius, but in the US it's about $5,000 more?

Toyota UK don't want to sell the Prius and are artificially making sure it doesn't sell. I understand they probably want to protect their home produced hybrids; Auris and Yaris, or at least make the most profit off them. That's their call.

One thing I've noticed is that as Japanese manufacturers Europeanise their range, market share falls. People like(d) Toyotas because they had amazing Japanese reliability. The Euro models just don't seem to be as good. As more models are home produced, market share falls. Contrast that with Kia where most models are still made in Korea and market share is climbing all the time.

People want Asian reliability. If Toyota don't offer that, then other will, and are.

And it's interesting that many owners on here have contrasting opinions to those either employed by Toyota or making money from this site.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The majority of Asian cars sold on the European market are made in Europe:

Toyota's: Avensis, Auris, Aygo, Verso, Corolla

Nissan's: Leaf, Note, Juke, Qashqai, Pulsar. (Micra is made in India).

Honda's: Jazz, CRV, Civic

Suzuki's: Splash, Swift, SX4, SX4 S-Cross, Vitara (new model)

Kia's: Cee'd, Venga, Sportage

Hyundai's: i10, i20, i30, ix20, ix35.

Note: Moderators on TOC undertake the moderating on a voluntary basis, and don't make any monetary gain from the site.

[stompe]

Its seems to me that some on here don't see it from the customers point of view, Its a shame Toyota GB dont seem to engage with there customers.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Having purchased 17 new cars over the years from manufacturers like Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Mazda and Hyundai, I do see things from a customer perspective - but I'm also a realist.

[stompe]

Well my 38 years have been solely with Toyota, and steadily seen standards drop, are you suggesting we should expect this from Toyota?

[FROSTYBALLS]

There is nothing in my comments which suggests this.

[stompe]

Im in a position where i don't have to be bias, Just honest, you being a Moderator suppose you have to[ fly the flag] i guess.