Dual Mass Flywheel (Warranty Problems) 2.2 D4D Xtr

[Adam2050]

Background to Story

Bought the car from a Toyota Garage in the UK (Won't name garage for now) 2008 under 12 month warranty with Toyota.

Drove it 3 months without any problems apart from a knocking that started from the gearbox (intermittent)

Anyway I took it to the dealer, who stated the usual lines of what it cost to fix (£1800 including parts labour etc) if deemed 'my fault' anyway over Christmas the mechanic in charge of my work has taken it apart and found the fault with the Dual Mass flywheel, now this is where the fun starts. (Supplied with the 2014 Prius, horrible car (courtesy))

He's sided with me and said there's play in the dual mass flywheel, so it's failing and the clutch is on bear minimal (no way I could of done that) There's no shavings from the clutch plate or anything that would suggest foul play on my behalf. (Either way I couldn't of done it, I work from home so cars only ever used a few times a week) Either way the mechanic believes the warranty should pay out so persuade through the warranty department, separate from the dealer i'm told. Either way they rejected the claim made by the mechanic on my behalf under the grounds of 'wear and tear', to which my mechanic has took the claim further and a inspection will be made to see if it's acceptable under the warranty, my mechanics response is, I won't accept the answer 'no'. But my question is what is likely to happen, I'm I going to get fobbed off and what would be the next steps if needed?

Obviously I'm left without the car for the meantime, but what's my stance do I just keep stating I'm not paying it based on the information given or do I pay it and pursue through the 'sale of goods act'. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated along with any problems you encountered. It seems atm a warranty ain't worth the paper it's written on, as what essentially has happened is that the garage has sold me a faulty car, thus my thought's towards the sale of goods act?

Thanks for your time in reading, and excuse any crap grammar.

[Devon Aygo]

The extended warranty company is independent from the dealer, when you purchased the car the dealer purchased a warranty from the warranty company, like any Warranty be it Manufacturers or Extended wear and tear is excluded from cover. A dual mass flywheel like the clutch is subject to wear and tear, as a claim has been submitted and denied your dealer has appealed the decision, what happens from here is the warranty company will appoint and send an independent engineer to inspect the car and his decision will be final. If he agrees with your dealer then the warranty company will have to pay out, if he finds it is a wear and tear fault then you will need to discuss with your dealer how they intend to repair you car without cost to yourself.

[Adam2050]

The extended warranty company is independent from the dealer, when you purchased the car the dealer purchased a warranty from the warranty company, like any Warranty be it Manufacturers or Extended wear and tear is excluded from cover. A dual mass flywheel like the clutch is subject to wear and tear, as a claim has been submitted and denied your dealer has appealed the decision, what happens from here is the warranty company will appoint and send an independent engineer to inspect the car and his decision will be final. If he agrees with your dealer then the warranty company will have to pay out, if he finds it is a wear and tear fault then you will need to discuss with your dealer how they intend to repair you car without cost to yourself.

That sounds like a cop out for consumers, he was saying it was a Toyota company, are you saying it's not?

Surely regardless of excessive wear and tear, that it was sold with that and as such not my problem?

Definitely sounds from that these warranties aren't worth the paper there written on? As a car of it's age is always going to have wear and tear it's 6 years old and on 62k miles? So I'm stuffed, what direction do I attack this with, as the consumer I shouldn't be paying a penny as it was sold faulty on sale. You wouldn't buy a tv only to get it home and be told it's going to develop a fault in 3 months time that means the product will fail and you will be have to foot the bill?

Thanks for your reply.

[Devon Aygo]

The extended warranty company is independent from the dealer, when you purchased the car the dealer purchased a warranty from the warranty company, like any Warranty be it Manufacturers or Extended wear and tear is excluded from cover. A dual mass flywheel like the clutch is subject to wear and tear, as a claim has been submitted and denied your dealer has appealed the decision, what happens from here is the warranty company will appoint and send an independent engineer to inspect the car and his decision will be final. If he agrees with your dealer then the warranty company will have to pay out, if he finds it is a wear and tear fault then you will need to discuss with your dealer how they intend to repair you car without cost to yourself.

That sounds like a cop out for consumers, he was saying it was a Toyota company, are you saying it's not?

Surely regardless of excessive wear and tear, that it was sold with that and as such not my problem?

Definitely sounds from that these warranties aren't worth the paper there written on? As a car of it's age is always going to have wear and tear it's 6 years old and on 62k miles? So I'm stuffed, what direction do I attack this with, as the consumer I shouldn't be paying a penny as it was sold faulty on sale. You wouldn't buy a tv only to get it home and be told it's going to develop a fault in 3 months time that means the product will fail and you will be have to foot the bill?

Thanks for your reply.

Nobody has copped out, there is however a due process to follow, Toyota extended warranties are administered by The Warranty Group a company independent of both the dealers and Toyota GB. If once the assessor has visited and decided that the fault is wear and tear then it would be the responsibility of the dealer to sort this issue.

No need to " attack" any one or any thing at the moment let due process occur, should the decision be " not covered " any dealer worth their salt should fix this free of charge on such a new purchase, only if the dealer comes at you with a cost should you then need to use Sales of good and point out the dealers responsibilities to you.

[Adam2050]

The extended warranty company is independent from the dealer, when you purchased the car the dealer purchased a warranty from the warranty company, like any Warranty be it Manufacturers or Extended wear and tear is excluded from cover. A dual mass flywheel like the clutch is subject to wear and tear, as a claim has been submitted and denied your dealer has appealed the decision, what happens from here is the warranty company will appoint and send an independent engineer to inspect the car and his decision will be final. If he agrees with your dealer then the warranty company will have to pay out, if he finds it is a wear and tear fault then you will need to discuss with your dealer how they intend to repair you car without cost to yourself.

That sounds like a cop out for consumers, he was saying it was a Toyota company, are you saying it's not?

Surely regardless of excessive wear and tear, that it was sold with that and as such not my problem?

Definitely sounds from that these warranties aren't worth the paper there written on? As a car of it's age is always going to have wear and tear it's 6 years old and on 62k miles? So I'm stuffed, what direction do I attack this with, as the consumer I shouldn't be paying a penny as it was sold faulty on sale. You wouldn't buy a tv only to get it home and be told it's going to develop a fault in 3 months time that means the product will fail and you will be have to foot the bill?

Thanks for your reply.

Nobody has copped out, there is however a due process to follow, Toyota extended warranties are administered by The Warranty Group a company independent of both the dealers and Toyota GB. If once the assessor has visited and decided that the fault is wear and tear then it would be the responsibility of the dealer to sort this issue.

No need to " attack" any one or any thing at the moment let due process occur, should the decision be " not covered " any dealer worth their salt should fix this free of charge on such a new purchase, only if the dealer comes at you with a cost should you then need to use Sales of good and point out the dealers responsibilities to you.

Yeah I may of needed to word that a little more constructively, do you think they would do that, or have you seen responses along that line in the past? From your responses it seems they will defo be leaving it to the dealer, when it comes to cars I can only think negative things, if I had the skill set I'm not sure I would be as worried, but when we consumers put our trust in others we expect to be given a good crack, my mechanic to be fair is being very honest and open so far.

I will let you know how due process goes, though I'm not holding my breath. Thanks again for your responses.

[FROSTYBALLS]

A couple of things to note:

If it comes down to taking some form of action under the Sale of Goods Act, it is the dealer your contract of sale is with - not the manufacturer.

If the vehicle purchase involved a Hire Purchase agreement, the Sale of Goods Act doesn't apply. Instead the Supply of Goods Implied Terms Act 1973 applies, which makes the Hire Purchase company responsible for the quality of goods supplied and gives you slightly different rights.

[doujoy1944]

Hi to all,

Having worked in the trade for a long time and having dealt with this clutch set up both in Toyota and Renault motors, when my Rav 4 clutch broke up I fitted a solid flywheel kit and have never had a problem since and that is over three years ago.

Doug.

[ALake]

Contrary to popular opinion I've found the toyota warranty about as much use as a cheapo internet one - they will argue/obfuscate and twist to avoid payment like any warranty!

I've long since come to the conclusion, if its not manufacturers 'standard' warranty, its worth nothing. So I don't bother with warranties anymore and take my chances.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Conversely when we had a Mazda Premacy from new, we bought a Mazda extended warranty after the 3 year new car warranty expired. 7 months into the extended warranty the drivers airbag developed a fault.

The complete airbag module was replaced without any quibble. At the time (2007) the driver's airbag module cost £750 just for the part.

[Adam2050]

Conversely when we had a Mazda Premacy from new, we bought a Mazda extended warranty after the 3 year new car warranty expired. 7 months into the extended warranty the drivers airbag developed a fault.

The complete airbag module was replaced without any quibble. At the time (2007) the driver's airbag module cost £750 just for the part.

This is a second hand car so it's Devon has mentioned a warranty from another company, I'd like to believe that the Toyota dealership will sort it regardless, as I can't see the warranty covering it.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Yes I appreciate your purchase was a used car. In your first post you stated it came with a Toyota warranty, so was part of Toyota's approved used scheme. The Toyota extended warranties and approved used warranties are underwritten by Toyota. Toyota use The Warranty Company to MANAGE both their extended warranties and their approved used warranties, and this management covers the warranty administration and claims processes.

This type of arrangement is fairly common, and not just amongst vehicle manufacturers.

So the warranty is actually a Toyota warranty and not a third party warranty.

[Phil_1985]

Just to add my two pence worth...

A non exhaustive list of parts replaced by Toyota Extended Warranty over the course of my 2.2 Auris 180's 5th 6th and 7th year. Now on 82000miles

Accessories belt and tensioner

A new clutch

alternator

ac compressor

drivers door seal

steering column

intermediate steering shaft

P2002 DTC - new dpf sensor with pipes and egr and inlet manifold decoke

All of the above at no cost to myself. I'm probably forgetting some other stuff but the above are the expensive claims! I've never had a claim rejected.

My toyota extended warranty expires jan 2016 - my car will be 8.5 years old at that point. If i can renew the warranty i probably will!

[FROSTYBALLS]

According to the Toyota website, the warranty can be extended up to the time the car is ten years old (think it was changed last year from 8 years old). See 'Commitment & Choice' on the following page - http://www.toyota.co.uk/insurance-and-warranty/extended-warranty

[Adam2050]

So they sent an engineer out, who's basically agreed with all the mechanic had down,and the report contradicts itself. Basically says that the play in the flywheel is down to unknown reasons, and the clutch assembly/clutch etc are all down to normal conditioning. But they have rejected it on the basis of wear. My mechanic has asked to escalate it again, to his manager, he's fighting it but as has already been stated here, the response made is final, so I can't see him going back on that.

What I don't understand is how a warranty is made to cover parts failure, the flywheel is failing, so that should be covered. The clutch is down to wear and tear by previous owners, but my point is, isn't all things to a car part wear and tear? Seems a very easy thing to not warrant, as every part is in use at some point.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The extended warranty company is independent from the dealer, when you purchased the car the dealer purchased a warranty from the warranty company, like any Warranty be it Manufacturers or Extended wear and tear is excluded from cover. A dual mass flywheel like the clutch is subject to wear and tear, as a claim has been submitted and denied your dealer has appealed the decision, what happens from here is the warranty company will appoint and send an independent engineer to inspect the car and his decision will be final. If he agrees with your dealer then the warranty company will have to pay out, if he finds it is a wear and tear fault then you will need to discuss with your dealer how they intend to repair you car without cost to yourself.

The response in terms of the warranty is final, but as Lee said in the above post, your next step is to discuss with your dealer how they will repair your car. If need be involve the Dealer Principal.

[Devon Aygo]

As the assessor has inspected and agrees that the DMF is apparently faulty I suspect the dealer is trying to get the warranty company to pay for both DMF and clutch, as a warranty administrator I would remove the clutch from the claim and ask the warranty company to cover the DMF that the assessor has apparently agreed as faulty thus removing the worn clutch and the denial based on "wear & tear" this would obviously leave a clutch kit to be paid for which the dealer should cover as goodwill.

At the moment the dealer is fighting a loosing battle trying to avoid cost to both them and the client, I'm sure doing the above would result in a DMF being covered by extended warranty and the dealer paying for the clutch.

[Adam2050]

As the assessor has inspected and agrees that the DMF is apparently faulty I suspect the dealer is trying to get the warranty company to pay for both DMF and clutch, as a warranty administrator I would remove the clutch from the claim and ask the warranty company to cover the DMF that the assessor has apparently agreed as faulty thus removing the worn clutch and the denial based on "wear & tear" this would obviously leave a clutch kit to be paid for which the dealer should cover as goodwill.

At the moment the dealer is fighting a loosing battle trying to avoid cost to both them and the client, I'm sure doing the above would result in a DMF being covered by extended warranty and the dealer paying for the clutch.

Id agree with that, Ill ask him that because as a warranty company they would every right too as it's clearly a user fed wear and tear that a entity could speed up the wear and tear. The clutch kit is next to nothing when you compare it with the overall bill.

I hope your right obviously :)

Thanks again for your replies.

[Adam2050]

UPDATE:

Car was done under the warranty, after various calls in house they sorted it.

However car is back and there's a vibration coming from somewhere near the gearbox when revving high in second and third. What could it possibly be?

Also the seatbelt like that goes off has been coming on when the seatbelt is attached. Have heard someone complaining on one forum of massive ECU problems after they had there Dual Mass Flywheel replaced, hoping mine isn't going to be the same.