Poor Starting

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

Hello wonder if anyone can offer any ideas.

I have a '08 (58) T25 2.0 D4D (113,000 mls) owned for bout 3 or so years. Im struggling to sort out a problem that's been witht he car since I've owned it. Basically when it's cold (freezing temp) and go start the the car it fires but immediatley stalls the only way it will start is if i give it some throttle then it'll fire and run. Once it's first started it'll start every time. I've scanned the engine using our Snap On scanner but it shows "No Codes Present".

I've viewed live data and the Temp sensor is working and I assume every other piece of data is correct as my colleague has also looked at this data. Unfortunally I've not been able to check the live data from cold/ when it won't start as I don't the scanner with at the time. I've changed the Temp Sensor (Right hand side of the engine if looking at bay) but only due to clutching at straws bout 10 days ago, it did seem to help but this morning it won't start without the throttle so now wondering if the problem is coming back. Both the old sensor and new one had the same reading +/- 1 degree on live data.

I've cleaned the EGR Valve (again) as well but know that this probably isn't the cause. I service it every 10,000 mls and keep on top of things when needed.

Has any one any ideas/ suffered the same problem??

Thanks

Rich

[muddymanuk]

Yes I have the same problem with my 2005 2.2 D4D, I'm assuming it's the glow plugs on mine, because as you say, once it's started the first time it'll start again. and when mine eventually starts there's a lot of grey smoke from the exhaust which clears pretty quickly. Once the cold weather has cleared it starts fine, so unless someone tells me otherwise and it's a simple fix l'll leave it as is..

Nick.

[Devon Aygo]

Most likely cause of poor cold startabilty on a AD series (2.0 & 2.2) engines is a faulty SCV ( Suction control valve) see here: http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/142960-starting-problems-20-d4d/

[muddymanuk]

Great reply thank you. As my car is not covered under any warranty, has anyone had this done by a local garage and what was the cost please ?

Nick.

[Devon Aygo]

Whilst changing the valve is easy enough ( just ensure you get the modified part and not the standard part ) reprogramming the ECU with the required software is a Toyota only job.

[cooper12000]

wouldn't a faulty valve cause an error code???

[Devon Aygo]

Its possible but unusual as the valve is usually too slow to respond causing poor start but not actually failed/seized where the car can detect this as a failure of fuel pressure to raise/lower as commanded by the engine ECU

[cooper12000]

ok thanks for the reply. I guess if it is over fuelling due to the scv dropping/increased pressure it would cause an lumpy idle however surly mpg would drop and continuing issues would occur.

not trying to argue just trying to learn

many thanks

coop

[Devon Aygo]

The valve tends to start with an issue of difficult cold starting ( which goes once started and doesn't present when warmer ) and eventually results in an error code of fuel pressure too high/low once its actually on its way out eventually failing.

The fault is caused by the lack of Sulphur in modern diesel fuel, Sulphur acts as a lubricant without it the valve starts to get slow/sticky in its action, so on a cold morning after closing the night before to shut off fuel and stop the engine the valve is stuck/too slow to open when you go to start the car hence the extended cranking and possible stalling. In warmer temps the diesel fuel is slightly thinner so the issue doesn't tend to occur until temps start to drop.

The new modified valve has been redesigned with a stronger actuator on the valve, a coating to reduce friction without the need for sulphur in the fuel and a software update to increase the cold starting/cranking fuel pressure to improve cold startabilty.

[Exvec]

Even more reasons for me to continue to use 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel.. :D

[muddymanuk]

Are we saying then that it's a Mr T repair job only due to the software update and reprogramming ?

[cooper12000]

I would guess that if u did the actual swap urself u could get mr t to do the update????? although there might be a warranty issue

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

Thanks for advise guys, il def check out the SC Valve. I assume that if the valve is sticking that would account for the constant Fast Idle even after the engine has warmed up to operating temp?? It sits at 1200rpm even the gauge on half way. I can't think/ remember of it ever being less than that. Do main dealers now only stock this modified valve of would I have to specify that i wanted one? How much does the valve cost? I could get one via work through Trade but if it then needed programming that's a different story if it can only be done by them. We do use an electrical firm near where we work, may ask them if they could do it.

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

Found a SVC valve on eBay brand new boxed in Toyota packaging £85.00

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-SUCTION-CONTROL-VALVE-SCV-04226-0L020-DENSO-294200-0040-/201138069194?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ed4c35eca

Have ordered it so will fit it when it arrives il fit and see how i get on, hopefully i can programme it with the wrok scanner.

[Devon Aygo]

Found a SVC valve on eBay brand new boxed in Toyota packaging £85.00

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-SUCTION-CONTROL-VALVE-SCV-04226-0L020-DENSO-294200-0040-/201138069194?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ed4c35eca

Have ordered it so will fit it when it arrives il fit and see how i get on, hopefully i can programme it with the wrok scanner.

Let me check in work tomorrow as that part number is quite old and the bulletin from Toyota lists 04426-26020 as being the latest part number, also the picture looks different to the latest kit Toyota are supplying.

The new valve doesn't need programming as such, the Engine control unit needs updated software ( via a file downloaded from Toyota )to alter the cold start functions, the only place you will get this software is from a Toyota dealer.

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

Ok thanks that's much appreciated. Guess the post must have been a fews old. I was looking at the pictures of the post & went for what looked the same ie the longer shaft & plug position. Guess if it's wrong it can go back eBay.

[Devon Aygo]

Latest part number for your car is 04226-26020 the part number your list on eBay shows as fitting a 3.0 Hilux/Landcruiser.

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

S**te!! Ah well my bad for assuming it would the right part, back on eBay it goes then!! Lol Live and learn. :-)

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

New valve fitted, very straightforward (once I'd worked out the valve needed the additional restrictor on the end, didn't run properly & bought on Fuel codes) & esy to fit. No programming required just plug in & drive. Definitely recommend Thomas Diesel distribution. Very friendly, informative & knowledgeable (01233 642816). Genuine parts, comes in a Toyota parts box plus everything you nedd to do the swap, barring instructions.

Hopefully this has cured the poor staring & certainly altered the fast idle down to normal once warmed up.

[muddymanuk]

Hi Just reading your post and lm a bit confused, did you just change it over without the software update ? Devon Aygo says it needs the software update from Mr T, How much was it and was a simple change /

regards,

Nick.

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

Yeah simply swapped the old (small bodied valve) with the new uprated (longer bodied valve). Two 5mm allen bolts remove the valve & use the new spacer provided plus relevant seals. WORD OF WARNING!! USE THE RESTRICTOR CAP on the end of the new valve as this will make the engine run properly... first I fitted the valve I didn't put the cap and the engine ran like a bag of nails. Also brought on 2 P codes about high fuel pressure and large fuel leak. Use the cap this solves the problem. No need to programme anything, asked Toyota whi said that I had the disconnect the Battery for 7mins. Thomas Diesels said they'd never had to programme the units, simply fit, plug in and drive which is exactly what I did. Whole job took 20mins but only cause I'd never fitted one before. Next time it'll b minutes. Cost me £85.65 (something like that plus VAT came to less than £103. It seems to work, !Removed! cold this morning and it started first flick of the key with no gas pedal needed.

[muddymanuk]

Is the RESTRICTOR CAP self explanatory to fit and do you have the parts number please ?

Nick.

[muddymanuk]

also what year and engine size is your car ?

Nick.

[Milky Bar Kid 1001]

Hi Nick no everything you need comes in the kits, restrictor included so no other parts required apart from what's in the box. My is 2008 (58) 2.0l diesel can't remember the engine code 1AD-FE I think, have to have a look once im on break. Ask I say just them a call give them the relevant info ie pump number and year (they'll tell you what to look for) and they'll do the rest.

[muddymanuk]

Thanks, I've dropped them an e-mail l just need to find the part number off the pump for them.

Nick.