D4D Engine Finshed. How And Why?

[Pinot Noir]

Hi:

My (late) 2005 Avensis station wagon I got over 4 years ago with 109K kms, had been trouble-free, received regular oil changes and checkups at the Toyota dealer, last being in July. Returning home last week, the car began losing power, dashboard lit up, Battery, oil, motor warnings, and then the car shut down as I barely was able to park it. The Battery was replaced in June, not the problem. Car was towed to dealer service which "suspected" the injectors. They gave an estimate of over 2200€ but they wanted to do more diagnostics(+150€) first. Today wife called to say that the engine is totalled, not only injectors but compression issues too, estimating 6000€ in repairs, slightly less than the book value.

Questions? How could this happen as the car never had troubles before, steady idling @1000rpm, never any engine issues, no running hot or tapping sounds, ever? Any other explanation than "BAD LUCK"?

The care is in mint cosmetic condition @170km. Leather interior mint, exterior is 98% flawless. What do I do now? Do I have any recourse with my insurance company for any part of this?

I read there were recalls on this motor if certain problems became apparent: oil loss or carbon buiidup. But that was until 2012 or 180K.

I will be car-less for a few months because I can not afford to buy anything at the moment. What's the best way to try and sell this car as is ? And sell to whom? Individual, chop shop, etc.

Believe it or not, I plan to buy another Avensis (2009-10) later in the year when finances get better. I loved this car even though I had a disastrous experience.

Thanks,

[avensisd4d786]

what engine code was this 1CD-FTV or 1AD-FTV

[vincentfishing]

hi and sorry to hear about your car i have a similar story which may or may not be of help, a relative had a 2005 toyota previa d4d T spirit, which gave up on her , garage said engine a write off and highly expensive to replace,she decided it was more cost effective to buy another car(she also stuck with toyota, a d4d corolla) she arranged for the scrap man to collect it from the garage receiving scrap value of £150, I heard this and immediately payed her £150, so, the car is know mine, I know intend to replace the engine(which i have never done) with a second hand one . the cheapest option i have found is to buy a complete car from salvage auctions, you can get a corrolla/previa/avensis complete for anywhere between about £300 and £800 depending on mileage and damage and they are all interchangeable with 4 modifications if they are not the same car,(this is not verified by anyone other than i read it on an old post here!) you can also scrap the donor car at the end with the bad engine minus spares you might keep or sell ,thus recouping some costs, you obviously live in europe and might be able to do the same thing, or even get the donor car and get someone else to do the swap,I have also noticed in uk that if you give up on the car and sell it privately with blown engine i have seen 05 toyota's sell for between £600-£800)I hope you sort it out, let us know how you get on

[Pinot Noir]

My engine type is 2AD-FTV, 150 bhp.

Wow, only 600-800 € for junking? Amazing I was hoping for at least 1500-2000 € because the physical state of this car is immpeccable. If someone else wanted to drop a rebuilt engine in it for 2500-3000 € (which I do not have!) , they'd have a very good car. I'm in France, don't know if that makes a difference.

I think this car was mfg'ed in the U.K., if I'm not mistaken. I plan to write Toyota and explain everything, not that it will make a difference. Perhaps they want to stand by their products and understand/ explain why such a great car would die after less than 10 years' service, when it's been kept and cared for like a baby.

[vincentfishing]

from what i've read, the oil pick/strainer slowly blocks in the sump causing a gradual oil starvation and eventually top or bottom end damage, why the oil filter doesn't stop this happening i don't know, all i do now is when i get my replacement engine thats gonna be the first thing checked and checked every now and again when its up and running

[Heidfirst]

My engine type is 2AD-FTV, 150 bhp.

Wow, only 600-800 € for junking? Amazing I was hoping for at least 1500-2000 € because the physical state of this car is immpeccable. If someone else wanted to drop a rebuilt engine in it for 2500-3000 € (which I do not have!) , they'd have a very good car. I'm in France, don't know if that makes a difference.

I think this car was mfg'ed in the U.K., if I'm not mistaken. I plan to write Toyota and explain everything, not that it will make a difference. Perhaps they want to stand by their products and understand/ explain why such a great car would die after less than 10 years' service, when it's been kept and cared for like a baby.

The car was manufactured in the UK, the engine in Poland afaik.

Toyota do stand behind their cars better than probably any other volume manufacturer (hence the 7 year/112k mile goodwill warranty) but I don't think that you will find one that is sympathetic about a 10 year old car as (at least in the UK) the average life of a modern car is 7-8 years. They are much more complicated than older cars.

I'm amazed that you think that the book value of your car is €6000 at 10 years old & 170k - here it would be probably ~ €2000 in full working condition.

What were the exact problems that the diagnosis suggested (compression issues is a symptom not a cause)?

[Gabaunion]

When all the lights come on that means stop the car...

Your fan belt snapped to begin with. (No alternator, steering pump, etc,,,,and WATER PUMP)

Depending how far you drove after (1 mile max) you could easily have totaled your motor.

[Pinot Noir]

Correction, motor is (was) 2AD-FHV, not FTV. Estimated value would have been around 4000- 5000 €, based on extras like full leather interior, headlight washers, etc. But that's all forgone now. Was hoping to get at least 200K km + out of it. It looked and ran so well, with so many bells and whistles, I hardly realized it was almost 10 years old, until now.

After the garage called wife with bad news, I've sort of declined to knowing more. I will request a copy of diagnostic test to see what were all the problems. My wife was so impressed with my Toyota, she purchased a Hybrid Prius last summer and her mom just got an Auris Hybrid. The dealer was trying to do me a deal, but my budget is goose eggs for the moment.

[Heidfirst]

A T180 of that age/mileage in fully working condition would only be worth ~€3000 (£2500) in the UK, surprising that French values are that much higher if you are correct.

[avensisd4d786]

from what i've read, the oil pick/strainer slowly blocks in the sump causing a gradual oil starvation and eventually top or bottom end damage, why the oil filter doesn't stop this happening i don't know, all i do now is when i get my replacement engine thats gonna be the first thing checked and checked every now and again when its up and running

does this apply to the 1cd-ftv engine what are the tell tale signs?

[vincentfishing]

yes , the only reason i've found this out is because i've been searching everywhere on the internet(without success) to try and find out how to change this engine in my 2005 previa, i've seen the pic of the strainer /pickup blocked, and from what i remember one post reckoned it was something to do with a leak on an injector, but who knows, all i know is that on my previa(not mine when engine failed) there were no warnings , no warning lights and no recorded faults when garage checked with diagnostics,the only thing i can think of is maybe its such a slow event that it gradually causes damage until it becomes a catastrophic event, but , you would think there would be some tell tale signs, maybe there was but not noticable enough to get it checked , this previa was also serviced shortly before failure, if i find pics and info while i'm trawling the net to get my engine change info i'll post it here,

[avensisd4d786]

if you don't mind that would be great. I have a strange noise when cold but goes away when warming, maybe its the oil struggling to get through.

my thread;

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/165567-d4d-engine-noise-when-cold-2004-1cd-ftv/

[baba_metca]

A T180 of that age/mileage in fully working condition would only be worth ~€3000 (£2500) in the UK, surprising that French values are that much higher if you are correct.

Well yes, but a car from France could be sold to anywhere in Europe without any changes or additional taxes, not mentioning the bad driving position. In the UK you can sell your cars without problems only there, so the market is more closed than in France. Here in Bulgaria the prices are equal €5-6000. Here a car like yours could sell for around €2000 in parts, even more if your leather is in good shape. It's common here for UK cars to come for parts, but working cars, without major defects, just because they are so cheap.

Here are some prices from the Bulgarian forum for an Avensis 2.0 1CD-FTV engine

турбо 450лв - Turbo €225

колянов вал 600лв - Crankshaft - €300

биела с бутало 150лв - this i can not translate but it costs €75

лети джанти 16ки оригинални на тойота 400лв - Aluminum Wheels 16" - €200

секретни гайки 60лв - secret wheel nuts - €30

щоричка за стъклото 40лв -sunblind for rear window €20

only from those things you can get €900;

Assuming you have everything else working and in a good shape and you have the biggest engine I know you can get €2000 easily even if you sell the lot to a chop shop.

[Heidfirst]

I think that there is probably more to it than just that. Probably supply side as well as demand.

I would not have thought that there were any additional taxes within Europe for personal import of used cars? Changes to lights I can imagine being the main mandatory spec changes but those can be done relatively cheaply. Certainly enough LHD cars driving here ... ;)

Also, in Eire they are RHD but cars from the UK are cheaper & the UK warranty is longer so it is not uncommon for people there to buy across the border. Similarly in the UK it is not uncommon to import second hand cars from Japan -partly because they are RHD but also their equivalent of their MOT is so strict that it forces cars off the road at a very young age & even with the transport & paperwork it can be cheaper to buy from there than within the UK (& especially for rare models).

Even if we look at your s/h parts prices:

I assume that "secret wheel nuts"= locking wheel nuts - a set of brand new genuine Toyotas are €40 here from a dealer (& that is using the current 1:1.30 exchange rate). Obviously the price of alloys depends on condition, style etc. but again I would say that the going rate for 16" Avensis wheels of that age is less here.

[baba_metca]

There are additional taxes for the RHD cars. Just because of the different driving possition is more dangerous. Those are insurance taxes. Many or you could say most parts are cheaper in UK, new and second hand. That is why here we buy a lot from your country.

Her you can get a brand new Toyota locking nuts for 60 euro.

Just saying that our colegue should not loose hope in selling for parts.

I would say that what happened with this engine is very strange. For no previous problems.

[Pinot Noir]

from what i've read, the oil pick/strainer slowly blocks in the sump causing a gradual oil starvation and eventually top or bottom end damage, why the oil filter doesn't stop this happening i don't know, all i do now is when i get my replacement engine thats gonna be the first thing checked and checked every now and again when its up and running

does this apply to the 1cd-ftv engine what are the tell tale signs?

Yes Sir:

You're on to something. Firstly, living in France, I'm an American with half baked speaking french. It becomes even more difficult when talking car repair lingo. With that in mind, I'm still awaiting the official diagostic printout- in french. My wife was awaiting word on the dealer getting us a good salvage deal and I've been depressed and not urgent to the happenings. Last word was that the engine failed a compression test as well as indicating bad injectors. But when the Toyota garage sad the engine was destoyed and as my wife was told , they said, "burned out", my suspicions have turned to lack of oil getting to engine, and the oil sensor on the dash never indicating any prior problem. The kind of trauma my car suffered could not have come simply from bad injectors, of which a precursor would have been bad idling, sluggish exceleration, loss of speed, none of which the car ever suffered.

I've read in different places on the net problems with loss of oil not getting to the top of the engine, causing engine seizure. If the oil sensor does not detect a problem, then this leads to more questions which seem much more plausible than simply "failed injectors." My last oil change was in july 2014 at the Toyota garage. Prior to that, the oil was changed at a local non Toyota garage recommended by father in law. I recall vaguely upon having the oil change then, my father in-law was told by the garage that there was little oil in the car at this time. But again, I recall no oil light ever indicating such. In fact, prior to this oil change and in between my last, I had to top off with a quart as the oil light did illuminate after a recent spurt of long road travel.

Fast forward to December. By the way, my car was driven about 10-15 days a month since I travel often by train or plane. Just before departing to NYC for two weeks, my car was making some slight annoying squealing sound, not loud, which only occured when it rained and was humid outside. I suspected a rusty or worn alternator belt. I asked my (retired) father in law to stop it by the Toyota dealer which he did while I was away. They indicated no problems upon inspection. Again, no oil light or anything else on the dashboard.

Finally, there was an apparent warranty "bulletin" put out on this and other engines from 2003-2008, 7 years/112k miles, related to head gaskets, compression loss and the like. http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/153514-hg-issue-1ad-and-2ad-engines/?p=1302297 . Mind you, this was a warranty for those who only found out about it and requested the service.

Sure it's easy to always blame the victim, but as I said before I treated this car with so much care that it's inplausable for it to fail like it did without clear explanation. My theory on the oil sensor still stands as I dig deeper.

[baba_metca]

What you are saying is that you are suspecting the car did not have enough oil. Or that there was not enough oil pressure.

[Pinot Noir]

Correct. Again, there was no indication warning of an oil problem.

[Mr.D]

Hi,

I think it might not be a oil problem. Also some fellow wrote about water pump as a major problem, but 2AD engines have chain for main components and belt for other and water pump ( i think) is being driven by chain, so nothing in common with this. SInce compression ratio is too low, then it is the main question why? In my mind 3 options: 1. Bad compresion/iul rings, 2. Warned out valve seats or valves themselves, 3. Burned piston. First thing i would do is to look at this report, weather all or only some cylinders lost compression, if all of them, this might lead to bad oil/compression rings, but not for sure. Valve seat or valve burning out might be if you put a lot of stress on engine while pull or cary anything really heavy. Regarding burned piston, this might be more close to the truth. If injectors are bad and instead of spray fuel they inject in stream, then most of it would land on piston itself and when ignited all the heat would be at the top of the piston and oil might not cool fast enough ( your stated oil problem might have had some influence here), either way if piston had overheatet it might burned through over a time. In this case there shoud have been more vibration, as fuel injected in stream isn't burning as well as sprayed as it suppose to be, nothing else would have come up, but thing in question if this is mechanical thing and no light before, so barely any light should have come up after it is burned through, maybe knocking sensor or something could have reacked to that. There are posibilities to take tiny camera inside engine and see what is the problem, you can eliminate valve/ valve seat error as well as piston burning through error, in that case only oil rings or something with oil starvation, but unless you tear engine apart you will not know.