Hybrid Mpg

[ToyotaAuris]

Hi guys, I am currently looking to purchase a Hybrid car, 2-3 years old with no more than 30k miles.

Looking at MPG figures of people on this forum with Hybrid cars is showing 55MPG and 58 MPG. To be honest that doesent seem much as diesels can achieve much more. My 1.3 Auris gives me 48-50 MPG on a motorway run and 45 in town, paying much more for a Hybrid car when diesel can cost less and not much fuel. Is 55 MPG a true figure or false?

[Chris Dance]

Our Prius does between 60 -65 MPG at the present time; that will improve as the weather gets warmer. I am getting 45-50 MPG on a short local shopping trip. I would not have any diesel engined car; as far as I am concerned there a stinking menace.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Thought you said previously you were going for a Lexus CT200h?

[ToyotaAuris]

Thought you said previously you were going for a Lexus CT200h?

Correct, Im just saying in general, not to any specific car.

[timberwolf]

The purchase cost of a hybrid is higher. The maintenance costs should be lower on a hybrid.

[Dutchguy]

I'm getting about 53mpg with this weather and about 60mpg in a Scottish summer for my 2013 Auris. Slightly worse than a prius but it seems slightly better than a ct200h Lexus.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Real world mpg is SO different to official figures or pie in the sky assumptions of what someone gets on the motorway for a 10 minute interval which would exclude a cold start or sitting in traffic getting to the actual motorway.

A diesel the same size as a Prius won't get the same mpg as a Prius - guaranteed. But it doesn't bother me trying to argue the case. I ran my Prius as a taxi over 35,000 TOWN miles and got 49 mpg average. My 406 Peugeot diesel got between 32&34 mpg in the same driving and a Merc Vito 7 seat taxi got 24 mpg.

And a final thing, and living in London should appreciate this, diesel stinks. It's a killer. If you, your loved ones, family, kids have asthma, chances are it's either caused by or exacerbated by traffic pollution. A diesel pumps out between 5 and 1,000 times more NOx than a Toyota hybrid.

I see you're proud you get 48 mpg out of a 1.3 manual car and don't think is it worth paying a premium for a hybrid. Personal choice. I like the automatic transmission, zero road tax, smooth power delivery, silence in slow moving and stationary traffic. Why pay £14,000 for a new 1.3 Auris when you can have a low mileage, second hand hybrid for the same money? Why not buy a 15 year old Mondeo and save £13,500 to spend on fuel instead?

There are many reasons to buy a hybrid and low fuel costs is but one of them. I question why people spend £180k on a Ferrari when the speed limit is only 70mph. Maybe there are additional reasons for their choice too? But I do wonder by the way you've asked the question in your thread whether your mind is already made up.

Readers might like to watch this for the duration;

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/59670-003

[PeteB]

...The maintenance costs should be lower on a hybrid.

No question. I ran a used Mk 1 Prius from 2002 to 2011. It had 8,000 miles on the clock when I got it (6 months old) and over 163,000 when I sold it. I kept a database of every penny I spent on it, and if inflation is adjusted it worked out to be the cheapest car I've ever owned, even though because of it's age and mileage I only got £500 when I sold it.

During that time I only paid for services, tyres, one wheel bearing and one set of brakes (both ends) at nearly 100k. It had only had two lots of spark plugs. With no gearbox, clutch or torque converter, servicing was very heap even though I used a main dealer.

Although my current Gen 3 Prius is showing an overall average of 55½ mpg at the moment, that's skewed by the number of short journeys I do. I'm doing fewer short journeys now and it's creeping up, and will increase more steadily as the warmer weather arrives and I switch back to summer tyres. Also, if I drive around town for more than 20-25 minutes, it often shows 70-85 mpg for those too. Lots of short journeys will hurt most car's energy consumption (even electrics), and remember diesel fuel is usually a bit dearer than unleaded too.

On a trip I do once or twice a month that's a 250 mile round trip in a day, a lot of which is at 60-70 mph punctuated by a fair few roundabouts, the computer often shows low to mid 70s mpg (and calculated tankfuls show it's on average 3½ mpg optimistic on a 500 mile tank).

Over the years I've had a few friends comment that their cars can match mine for mpg, but they tend to notice a good journey on their trip computer, without factoring in all their short journeys. When I've persuaded a few of them to work out their mpg on a tankful, they've usually been quite shocked.

Diesels prior to the recently introduced EURO 6 standard of emissions are bad news because of their NOx emissions, and governments around the world are agonising what to do about it. Many towns and cities have illegal levels of NOx gases which are almost certainly causing thousands of premature deaths, and diesel road vehicles are believed to be the chief culprits.

Governments have been giving tax breaks due to CO2 levels, encouraging more people to buy diesels, but many believe their only option is to tax diesels punitively in the face of looming fines in the hundreds of millions for local and national governments permitting these illegal pollution levels to continue. London is already preparing to charge a daily fee similar to the congestion charge for diesels not meeting EURO 6.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

As above, a Diesel will match MPG on a long run, but will not when with any sort of short distances. Then as mentioned there are the associated running costs with a Diesel, and the potentially costly DPF / dual mass fly wheels issues that are possibly lurking around the corner.

[johalareewi]

Looking at MPG figures of people on this forum with Hybrid cars is showing 55MPG and 58 MPG. To be honest that doesent seem much as diesels can achieve much more.

The MPG figures you see on this forum are real!

All toyota hybrids are petrol automatics.

To get a meaningful MPG comparison, you should compare Toyota hybrids with an automatic diesel (not a manual) and a similar sized vehicle (like hybrid auris vs automatic diesel auris).

But you are correct. With a Toyota Hybrid you get manual diesel MPGs from an automatic petrol car. ;)

My 1.3 Auris gives me 48-50 MPG on a motorway run and 45 in town.

If my 1.8 Prius ever gets as low as 50 mpg on a motorway run, something is wrong.

[barrycoll]

There is definitely more to the hybrid/diesel debate than just bottom line MPG.

I have bought new Mk2, 3, 4 and 5 Golf diesels, but before buy the new Mk7 I fortunately saw the Light.....The Oriental Rising Sun.

(Enter T Spirit Prius from stage left)

Over
2 years of mixed miles, the balance being Motorway trips, the overall
mpg is just over 60mpg, but none of the Golfs ever cracked 50mpg

But the main substance of the Prius, is the car's deep outbreathe, and then Zen silence during the ever increasing motorway queues and traffic jams, when all those around are clutching/declutching, franticaally starting/stopping for just 10 meters of travel.

If the car came with a blood pressure guage, you may even get a Prius Precription from your GP.

[Hicardo]

Well said mate!

This is the key reason for me that hybrids are superior.

O own a diesel 13 reg Beetle, and a 64 reg Auris HSD. The Toyota is the car i find most comfortable, and most relaxing. In comparative driving its also about 10mpg more econonomical generally. Not quite as fast as the diesel but not far off

Cheers

[Joseph D]

Looking at MPG figures of people on this forum with Hybrid cars is showing 55MPG and 58 MPG. To be honest that doesent seem much as diesels can achieve much more.

The MPG figures you see on this forum are real!

All toyota hybrids are petrol automatics.

To get a meaningful MPG comparison, you should compare Toyota hybrids with an automatic diesel (not a manual) and a similar sized vehicle (like hybrid auris vs automatic diesel auris).

But you are correct. With a Toyota Hybrid you get manual diesel MPGs from an automatic petrol car. ;)

My 1.3 Auris gives me 48-50 MPG on a motorway run and 45 in town.

If my 1.8 Prius ever gets as low as 50 mpg on a motorway run, something is wrong.

And don't forget you get the comfort of a medium sized car and the combined power output of the Gen III is equivalent to a 2.2 l, so comparing with a 1.3 manual is apples and oranges.

[Dapple]

There is definitely more to the hybrid/diesel debate than just bottom line MPG.

But the main substance of the Prius, is the car's deep outbreathe, and then Zen silence during the ever increasing motorway queues and traffic jams, when all those around are clutching/declutching, franticaally starting/stopping for just 10 meters of travel.

If the car came with a blood pressure guage, you may even get a Prius Precription from your GP.

Nail = Head. Well said sir.

SWMBO had a Fiat GP 1.4 petrol. Yes it could crack 40mpg locally sometimes and 50mpg on a run, at least on the cars computer. BUT since swapping it for an Auris HSD 2years ago her fuel bills, and indeed her overall running costs have plummeted to a laughably low level.

So I chopped in my Ford 1.6 turbodiesel that theoretically could top 60mpg but didnt, and bought a Prius, not because I'm green, but because I'm a tight Yorkshireman.

Downsides - its pious image, the assumptions others make about you when you tell them what you drive.

Upsides - even cheaper to run than the Auris, I am told this is down to the aerodynamics. Also the futuristic dashboard which is a joy and a gadget lovers dream.

BUT as quoted the reality of living with it is somehow more than the sum of its parts.

It's a relevant 21st century technology thinking-persons relaxer-car in a world full of traffic jams packed with clutch-pumping stop-start-cranking fume-pumpers full of angst.

[vanilla.coffee]

The diesels days are numbered. Watch this years UK budget and prepare to weep if you own a diesel car.

My Yaris Hybrid is now up to 63mpg and most of my commute is motorway.

[PeteB]

...ever increasing motorway queues and traffic jams, when all those around are clutching/declutching, ...

...BUT as quoted the reality of living with it is somehow more than the sum of its parts.

It's a relevant 21st century technology thinking-persons relaxer-car in a world full of traffic jams packed with clutch-pumping stop-start-cranking fume-pumpers full of angst.

Hmmm, you'd think Toyota would make an ad along those lines...

[johalareewi]

Hmmm, you'd think Toyota would make an ad along those lines...

They are still clapping themselves on thier backs for coming up with "You don't have to plug it in".

[timberwolf]

PeteB, by "should" I meant that there are no guarantees and the experience of past models isn't necessarily a good indicator of the current model. Personally, I think Toyota have reduced the reliability and when they introduced a piece of wafer thin cardboard in the boot of the Yaris - I thought that was a step too far in cheap materials.

[barrycoll]

It is just a shame that Toyota don't imitate the VAG crowd, and offer 5 pages of pricey Options to spec your own needs/wishes, or

(alternatively), just waste some more money......

Is it because the Prius is fully imported???

No opening sunroof for the Auris for instance, which (like PeteB's spare wheel) is a make or break option for me....

on the other hand, drivethedeal are doing a 2015 Auris Icon Hybrid for just over £16k, with 0% finance

[timberwolf]

I don't think I would like so many separate options... I found it difficult just choosing the exterior colour but at least I had a choice of colours compared with the model that was to follow mine.

[PeteB]

I'm with Barry on this one - I had a company Volvo V40 in 1997 which started at £14k for the base model and I added £7k of options.

If you wanted all (or a lot of) the toys there were 'pack' options - SE pack was very well equipped, and CD pack had just about everything, but I went the route of building my own spec because I needed to avoid the sunroof that came with both packs (not enough headroom with sunroof).

By combining a number of smaller packs, I got all the toys I really wanted, although it cost about £600 more than getting all the same gear and a sunroof with the CD pack!

I'd love to be able to buy a Prius that way, especially to get the radar cruise control and solar panels to keep the fan running when the sun's on the car, but without a sunroof, whilst keeping to 15" wheels. I'd give (almost) anything for a nice leather interior too, without the acres of black so common now.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I wouldn't. I hate having too many options lol. I like the 3 options that Toyota do.

Same as when I'm in a carpark. Hate it if it's go loads of spaces. Dread to think what that says about me!?!?

[timberwolf]

Options add weight, so adding a spare wheel in place of the hated gunk, could change the CO2, and therefore it should change the vehicle tax band of the car.

I like lots of spaces in car parks, I usually pick the furthest and easiest parking spot that I can find :-)

[Bibsy]

I hardly dare put my head above the parapet here, but...

The options are what killed my long relationship with Toyota for me. Way back when I had two or three Lexus in succession, there was no issue with options, as everything came with every car. Easy.

Then I moved to hybrids - a Prius followed by an Auris. Loved the Prius to bits, but wanted more toys. Not available. Moved to Auris. Wanted toys. Not available.

Now have moved to a Volvo, and a diesel at that.

Yes, it's costing me more money, no getting away from it. But here's the thing - I now have toys not even available on any Toyota hybrid - and the overall money, even with increased running costs, is still less than it would have cost me to get even as near as possible (not very near) with Toyota. Further, the Volvo is a solid well built comfy car (more so than anything since the Lexus) that puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. So far.

I might come back with my tail between my legs after the budget, but I'd have to be slapped with another three thousand or so a year to make it cost me what a replacement hybrid would have done, and that's pretty unlikely.

[Chris Dance]

I had a Volvo 940 estate the depreciation on it put me off ever buying another Volvo. The servicing costs on the Volvo was a lot more than my Prius.