Do I Get An Auris Hybrid Icon Plus ?

[Jimmy6616]

Hi everyone, first post for some real advice. My company is offering me a Auris Hybrid 1.8 Cvt icon plus as a new car. I travel about 1000 per month split about 60% motorway and 40% a\b roads. Economy is important but so is quiet and relaxed motorway driving. I've trawled the forums and read numerous articles on the hybrid\torque\petrol relationship. I know it will be a different style of driving compared to my mk 6 2.0tdi golf at the moment. My main worry is the 'alleged' CVT noise when accelerating and cruising at 70 and also the lacklustre torque. Would love real feedback before I make an important choice which will last me for three years. Thanks in advance. Jim

[vanilla.coffee]

Welcome.

Book a test drive. Once you drive one, you'll be impressed with the power and torque available.

I have a Yaris hybrid, 90% of my commute is motorway and I do not experience this 'CVT whine' you speak of.

At 70mph cruise the engine can barely be heard.

What is this CVT whine? I don't think Toyota hybrids have CVT transmissions.

Book a test drive. Then you'll know.

Personally, I shall never buy another manual, or diesel ever again.

[PeteB]

Hi Jim.

Definitely have a test drive - try to get one for 24 hours so you can really get a good idea.

I think the CVT noise is what some people (especially motoring journalists) refer to if you whack the throttle pedal to the floor - the engine goes to near maximum revs and seems quite loud, but really no worse than a conventional auto kicking down to 3rd or 2nd gear. I think it's more noticeable in the Hybrid because it's so quiet the rest of the time. While cruising it's very relaxed, and if you get into the habit of squeezing the pedal fairly quickly rather than stamping on it you'll still get good overtaking power (unless you're used to a Ferrari!) but less noise.

Strictly speaking, the Toyota Hybrids don't have a CVT gearbox, or indeed any gearbox. No clutch, torque converter. Just a sort of glorified differential that links the main electric motor, petrol engine and wheels and allows revs to be swapped between them. Beautifully simple (mechanically); nothing slips, connects, disconnects, swaps cogs, or moves a band between pulleys - vastly fewer moving parts than a conventional manual; or auto gearbox, so very reliable and low maintenance. When you select reverse, the electric motor just turns the other way!

Toyota now call it an eCVT but that's just marketing speak for "doesn't need a gearbox".

I too couldn't go back to a manual (or even an 'ordinary' auto for that matter).

Good luck, regards PeteB

[Joseph D]

... I think the CVT noise is what some people (especially motoring journalists) refer to if you whack the throttle pedal to the floor ...

And just for the information of the OP, whacking the throttle to the floor is not the quickest way to get a hybrid up to speed. You need to press the accelerator slowish but with a definitely authoritative action so that you get the best torque from the electric motor. Once you feel the high torque you just hold it there and the electronics will maintain an increase in acceleration, at which point you can back off the accelerator while maintaining the acceleration -- thereby reducing the fuel consumption. It still amuses me how it does this. Also amusing to see the look on some people's faces as you drag them off from a standing start. Ah, it is the small things in life ...

[vanilla.coffee]

The instant pick up from rest astonished me. A Yaris isn't supposed to out drag a GTi at the lights! :-D

A friend of mine takes delivery of his Auris hybrid company car on Monday and I've never seen him so excited.

He's coming out of an Audi diesel.

Sent from my iPhone using Toyota OC

[Chris Dance]

If you decide on a Toyota Hybrid you will not want to go back to any other car. The toyota hybrid cars are the best cars I have ever owned and I am oldie so I have had a lot of different models of car. As for a diesal car UGH!! I do not think new model Toyotas come with a skinny spare wheel. You may have get a spare wheel as an extra? The gunge supplied with modern cars is useless.

[unclepoo]

They`re fine cars to drive....very quiet and relaxing, I fined cruise control very useful on the motor way and thro 50mph road works, as the car is so quiet, I can find myself increasing speed if I`m not careful. Company car tax should be a big plus for you too as they are so low on co2. If you pay for your own fuel, then claim a mileage back, you`ll be pleased to know that my auris returned 70.6mpg on a long motor way and A road drive of a total of 430 miles.

[Jimmy6616]

Thanks guys, I have contacted my local dealer in Bristol who have passed my details to Toyota for a 24\48hr test drive, I'm actually getting excited about the possibility of something different to the norm. I get 15p per mile for business miles so any advantageous fuel economy benefits me also.

I like music whilst driving, how is the DAB and sound of the system, mapping and bluetooth etc

Ta

Jim

[CPN]

Thanks guys, I have contacted my local dealer in Bristol who have passed my details to Toyota for a 24\48hr test drive, I'm actually getting excited about the possibility of something different to the norm. I get 15p per mile for business miles so any advantageous fuel economy benefits me also.

I like music whilst driving, how is the DAB and sound of the system, mapping and Bluetooth etc

Ta

Jim

I have DAB and the Touch 2 system in our Yaris Excel Hybrid. I like the sound system quite a lot as there is quite a lot of scope for adjusting tone quality etc and you'd be hard pressed not to find a setting that suits your own ears. Just one niggle with the software that drives the DAB and that is the current information doesn't scroll when it is too long for the display (it works fine for RDS FM so it's a DAB thing...). Also, the traffic announcements (TA) don't seem to work in DAB mode but that's possibly not its own fault...

The Bluetoooth is very reliable with my phone (Nexus 5) and I use it all the time in tethered mode so that the head unit gets an internet connection also (as well as phone audio and music if I need it). I usually also have my phone connected at the same time to an ELM327 plugged into the OBDII diagnostics port (using Android App Torque) so there are no issues with multiple BT connections (at least not with my phone).

The only criticism I would have of the NAV unit is that it doesn't "turn" quickly enough when going round a roundabout and the volume of it is a bit finicky to adjust independently of the media volume but in every other way, I haven't been able to fault it thus far...

[Jimmy6616]

Thanks Colin , o you use the diag port to monitor the stats from the can-bus? The info is excellent as we have nothing perfect in our cars, I just want to ensure I have all relevant, not perfect info, to make an accurate decision in whether to go for an Auris hybrid as I need to live with it for three years, appreciate everyone's help

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Toyota now call it an eCVT but that's just marketing speak for "doesn't need a gearbox".

Typical, exactly what Fiat called their CVT boxes in the 90's, as they're electronically (ECU) controlled. Lets hope it doesn't cause more confusion.

[CPN]

For all those who can spare 30 mins, here's a link to all you ever wanted to know about Toyota's "eCVT" (that isn't really a CVT in the conventional sense!). His voice is a little on the "put you to sleep" mode but I think you'll agree that his explanation is comprehensive if nothing else! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLNDGUISTYM&list=FLMLxXrJrqA7-8mJvSQXu6_Q&index=1

(edit: 12 mins 20 into the video is where he introduces the "power split device" to the centre of the table and is the nearest you're going to come to any form of "CVT" device...)

[CPN]

Thanks Colin , do you use the diag port to monitor the stats from the can-bus?

Yes. There's a mass of info you can monitor, especially if you download the 3rd Gen Custom PIDs that are available for Torque on their forums.

Here's a screenshot of the screen I currently have set up. It's a "work in progress" as I am still playing about with different options that I feel are most useful to have...

This is after the first cold start on a morning (standing still obviously) and after the ICE has reached 40°C and then shutdown but "EV" and "Ready" on... The "Bty Curr" reading is the main HV Battery current in and out (it changes to a "-" value when charging). The "HV Bty Chg" is the SoC PID (State of charge) and is the same input as the visual Battery charge state provided by the head unit but with a more accurate numerical range. The MPG is instantaneous and allows me to be able to see both average (on the dash) and this at the same time... The rest are self explanatory.

[Jimmy6616]

Thanks Colin, is this display on you iPhone or similar? Which ELM327 did you get, there are a multitude on eBay.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

A very basic explanation of the Toyota hybrid system that works for me is that it's like a differential in reverse with the engine on one wheel and the electric motor on the other.

Obviously it's nothing like that and also has two motors/generators to confuse it, but it is an easy way to explain to people. One thing I've found in 5 years of hybrid ownership is that many people don't understand how a hybrid works and thus think it doesn't. They can't get their heads around it, especially how it can still return 60 mpg at 60 mph in an automatic petrol car. We all know it does and more.

[CPN]

Thanks Colin, is this display on you iphone or similar? Which ELM327 did you get, there are a multitude on ebay.

Google Nexus 5 (LG really) running Android. Wouldn't touch an iPhone with a barge pole lol! Overpriced and underpowered but that would be for another discussion in another place lol!

This was the one I got. Works great. I leave it plugged in all the time now as it has an auto power off/standby mode and doesn't seem to drain the Battery at all...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-ELM327-OBD2-V1-5-Car-Bluetooth-Scanner-Android-Auto-Scan-Diagnostic-Tool-UK-/271623595403?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f3e07258b

If you have an iPhone, I seem to recall that you'll need to look at Wifi type OBDII plugs because BT didn't work well with them but I could be wrong with the most recent iPhone versions now... From what I've seen, Torque seems to be the best app out there for Android but I don't think there is a version for IOS.

I also bought one of these...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Mini-VCI-TIS-Techstream-OBD-2-II-Diagnostic-Interface-Cable-For-TOYOTA-/221686153391?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339d8640af

...so that I could have a dedicated laptop running Toyota Techstream for the car and then I can do pretty much all that the Dealer's Service department can do when it comes to diagnostics...

[CPN]

A very basic explanation of the Toyota hybrid system that works for me is that it's like a differential in reverse with the engine on one wheel and the electric motor on the other.

Obviously it's nothing like that and also has two motors/generators to confuse it, but it is an easy way to explain to people. One thing I've found in 5 years of hybrid ownership is that many people don't understand how a hybrid works and thus think it doesn't. They can't get their heads around it, especially how it can still return 60 mpg at 60 mph in an automatic petrol car. We all know it does and more.

That's quite a good analogy actually GC!

One thing I've really noticed, in this recent cold weather and given that I am more closely monitoring things like ICE temperature, is just how much operating temperature (of the ICE) really does affect the instantaneous MPG figures a heck of a lot... It seems that until the engine gets into the range between 70°-80°C and above, the Atkinson engine doesn't get to its full efficiency and you won't see figures like 60 & 70+ mpg at 50-60 mph when using a mix of electric & ICE until it gets up to that crucial temperature. Trouble is that running around town or on short journeys, my Yaris's ICE very rarely gets above 50°-60° in this weather and so when the ICE does cut in because of depleted Battery (say...), it runs at typically mid to high 40's mpg and not much better than that. Still learning all the nuances of hybrid motoring of course but overall I don't think I'll ever go back to a conventional car; given my experiences thus far...

[valmiki]

A very basic explanation of the Toyota hybrid system that works for me is that it's like a differential in reverse with the engine on one wheel and the electric motor on the other.

Obviously it's nothing like that and also has two motors/generators to confuse it, but it is an easy way to explain to people. One thing I've found in 5 years of hybrid ownership is that many people don't understand how a hybrid works and thus think it doesn't. They can't get their heads around it, especially how it can still return 60 mpg at 60 mph in an automatic petrol car. We all know it does and more.

That's quite a good analogy actually GC!

One thing I've really noticed, in this recent cold weather and given that I am more closely monitoring things like ICE temperature, is just how much operating temperature (of the ICE) really does affect the instantaneous MPG figures a heck of a lot... It seems that until the engine gets into the range between 70°-80°C and above, the Atkinson engine doesn't get to its full efficiency and you won't see figures like 60 & 70+ mpg at 50-60 mph when using a mix of electric & ICE until it gets up to that crucial temperature. Trouble is that running around town or on short journeys, my Yaris's ICE very rarely gets above 50°-60° in this weather and so when the ICE does cut in because of depleted Battery (say...), it runs at typically mid to high 40's mpg and not much better than that. Still learning all the nuances of hybrid motoring of course but overall I don't think I'll ever go back to a conventional car; given my experiences thus far...

Radiator blocking....I'm currently running with pipe insulation on the front!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Or use Eco mode which causes the engine to switch off at colder temperatures. It does restrict the heating to about level 2 on the fan speed when using auto though, as well as reduced performance.

Might be worth a tinker to see if it works for your route.

[CPN]

I'll give that a try. Sounds like a good suggestion...

[MEP's Yaris GS]

One thing I've really noticed, in this recent cold weather and given that I am more closely monitoring things like ICE temperature, is just how much operating temperature (of the ICE) really does affect the instantaneous MPG figures a heck of a lot...

I'm glad its not only me, done from 75-80 MPG on a long run to 66-70mpg :(

[CPN]

I've been reading up on the Atkinson cycle engine and the key word in the whole design is "thermal". Compared to an Otto cycle (conventional 4 stroke) it's thermal efficiency is much higher at the expense of displacement equivalent power and that's the downside. Whilst it is much more efficient fuel consumption wise, it is much more important for an Atkinson cycle engine to be at its optimum working temperature for this to be achieved. Hence the big difference in cold weather running when compare to a normal Otto cycle engine.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Looks like I'll be fitting a lower grille block to the Prius tomorrow on my day off then, a reversed number plate that I've got spare should be about the right size.

[PeteB]

I think almost any combustion engine suffers when cold, and the more short cold start journeys, the worse they are. Certainly Prius is sensitive to cold, maybe more so.

A 1.8 auto Volvo I used to have was terrible overall (26 mpg overall average, often display 5-13 mpg on a 2-3 mile journey in the winter).

If I do half a dozen cold start journeys on a very cold day in my Gen3 T3 I can see just 10-20 mpg displayed on the Trip A (I used Trip A for daily, B for tank to tank). However, if I do a single trip lasting half an hour or more when it's 10C or more it will often show 70+.

For the first few years I owned my Gen 1 Prius (always on the standard summer tyres) I drove 40 miles each way to work on gentle cross country roads, and my mpg didn't perceptibly change summer to winter, as I think the engine spnt such a higher percentage of its running time at full temperature you couldn't see weather variations in the figures.

[CPN]

Right. That last point makes a lot of sense...