Problems Already!

[suek]

hi,i'm back again for more advice.

i've only just started driving my rav properly today and i hope i've not made an expensive mistake.

it's an automatic,and although 90% of the time it's fine,on a couple of occasions today it has jumped out of gear,and then back in again.

i'm looking at the posts on this forum and i'm worried in case it's the ecu,which i could really do without.

my husband has a code reader and it came up with two codes:

P0141,and P0161.

am i right in thinking i'll have to send this ecu off for repair or could it be something else(hopefully not as expensive!).

once again thanks in advance.

[Devon Aygo]

P0141 = Oxygen sensor heater circuit malfunction bank 1 sensor 2

P0161 = Oxygen sensor heater circuit malfunction bank 2 sensor 2

These codes would suggest both your post catalyst oxygen sensors are faulty, however these would not cause your gear shift issues.

It does however sound as though you need to have you ECU repaired, also have you checked the autobox fluid level ?

[Conrod]

hi,i'm back again for more advice.

i've only just started driving my rav properly today and i hope i've not made an expensive mistake.

it's an automatic,and although 90% of the time it's fine,on a couple of occasions today it has jumped out of gear,and then back in again.

i'm looking at the posts on this forum and i'm worried in case it's the ecu,which i could really do without.

my husband has a code reader and it came up with two codes:

P0141,and P0161.

am i right in thinking i'll have to send this ecu off for repair or could it be something else(hopefully not as expensive!).

once again thanks in advance.

Have a read of this thread, then best get your gearbox ECU repaired.....

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/145198-rav4-auto-gearbox-issues-ecu-or-gearbox/

[suek]

hi everybody,thanks for the replies so far.

just an update:

we took out the ECU and sent it to ECU testing,who have just phoned to say there was no fault found,except for some cracks in the circuit board which they have repaired free of charge.

he said on their testing machines it showed no fault,so they're sending it back to me today.

they didn't charge me,so i think they're a very fair,trustworthy company.

however,now we are worried because the fault is still going to be there and we don't really know where to go from here.

we thought it would be a relatively easy fix,but now it looks more complicated(and expensive).

by the way we have checked the atf,which looks fine,doesn't smell and seems clean.

any help or advice as to where we go from here would be very much appreciated.

thanks.

[firemac]

Hi Sue,

Wait until you've refitted the ECU and driven the car to see if the fault recurs.

Although ECUT haven't had to repair the unit, it would be advisable to "re-commission" it, i.e. when a repaired ECU comes back from ECUT they advise that the owner goes through a certain routine on first use:

1. Refit the ECU, start car & let it warm up to normal temperature.
2. During warm-up, do not take lever out of "P".
3. Once fully warmed up, drive car for at least 20 minutes at various speeds and stopping and starting occasionally (traffic lights, junctions, etc) to ensure that the box gets well exercised up & down the gears.
4. This process allows the box to begin "re-learning" your driving style. It sounds weird I know but this box is controlled by software that has been dubbed "fuzzy logic" in that it is able to modify gear cahnge points, etc to allow the most efficient running.

ECUT may include this note with your returned ECU but, as your unit wasn't faulty, they may not and it could be argued that it consequently isn't necessary. But I am a great believer in belt & braces and, if it were my car , because the ECU has been disconnected from its power source, I would go through this routine anyway - just to be on the safe side.

I'm certainly not an expert. Nevertheless, if there was some damage to the circuit boards, that may have had something to do with your original problem and ECUT's repairs may have a beneficial effect. If not then I'd suggest that you get a competent autobox specialist to take a look.

Best of luck & let us know how it goes.

[suek]

thanks for that jim.should have it back tomorrow,we're hoping and praying that the work on the circuit boards will do it,although this does seem unlikely,but we will certainly follow the procedures that you outlined and will let you know how it goes.

[suek]

hi again,got the ecu back today and my husband fitted it.

we went through the procedure as advised by jim,and drove the car for a good hour,in various traffic situations.

thought it was cured,because for about 50 mins it drove without the original problem occurring.

it did,however seem quite jerky in the lower gear changes,changing down quite harshly at low speeds,also when reverse is selected there's a second's delay before it engages,again quite harshly and with a bit of a *****.

these slight issues we were happy to live with,but just before we came home i accelerated quite hard and the car slipped out of gear and then back in again,which was very disappointing. we obviously still have a fault and so we were wondering whether to buy another ecu from ecu testing.

because the fault happens rarely and the car drives fine 95% of the time we are tempted to just live with it,but not sure if this will cause damage in the long run,so we are unsure where to go from here.

it obviously doesn't help being new to automatic cars,but we thought it would be smoother all round than it is.

thanks.

[Conrod]

hi everybody,thanks for the replies so far.

just an update:

we took out the ECU and sent it to ECU testing,who have just phoned to say there was no fault found,except for some cracks in the circuit board which they have repaired free of charge.

he said on their testing machines it showed no fault,so they're sending it back to me today.

they didn't charge me,so i think they're a very fair,trustworthy company.

however,now we are worried because the fault is still going to be there and we don't really know where to go from here.

we thought it would be a relatively easy fix,but now it looks more complicated(and expensive).

by the way we have checked the atf,which looks fine,doesn't smell and seems clean.

any help or advice as to where we go from here would be very much appreciated.

thanks.

If not done so already, change the gearbox fluid and the mesh filter in the gearbox sump pan, it's a cheaper option that a new gearbox.

There are other ECU repairers, so you have the choice of a second opinion.

[firemac]

hi again,got the ecu back today and my husband fitted it.

we went through the procedure as advised by jim,and drove the car for a good hour,in various traffic situations.

thought it was cured,because for about 50 mins it drove without the original problem occurring.

it did,however seem quite jerky in the lower gear changes,changing down quite harshly at low speeds,also when reverse is selected there's a second's delay before it engages,again quite harshly and with a bit of a *****.

these slight issues we were happy to live with,but just before we came home i accelerated quite hard and the car slipped out of gear and then back in again,which was very disappointing. we obviously still have a fault and so we were wondering whether to buy another ecu from ecu testing.

because the fault happens rarely and the car drives fine 95% of the time we are tempted to just live with it,but not sure if this will cause damage in the long run,so we are unsure where to go from here.

it obviously doesn't help being new to automatic cars,but we thought it would be smoother all round than it is.

thanks.

Harsh changes & jumping out of gear are definite worries, IMHO. This autobox is usually sublime so any issues need to be investigated esp as the box can very quickly destroy itself; I don't mean to sound over-dramatic but if it did, the costs of replacement are horrendous. The fact that it has jerky changes says there is something wrong.

Geoff's suggestions are sound re changing the ATF & filter. If that doesn't cure it, I'd take it to a reputable autobox specialist for a diagnosis, particularly one with some experience of Japanese boxes. You could get a second ECU opinion although in my experience and that of many other members who have used them, ECU Testing are excellent; if they've not found a problem, there is unlikely to be one.

One more thing, I'm not sure whether your car has an OBD port as its a 2001 model; if it does it will be under the dash just to the right of the steering column. It's a socket with a number of pins/holes (I can't remember which) in it that an OBD reader is plugged into so that you can check if there are any fault codes stored in the OBC (on board computer). You can do this very easily with a handheld code reader. If you don't have one, they can be picked up on eBay for £10-£15. If there are any codes stored, they might give you some clues to the problem.

[suek]

hi again,and thanks for the replies.

my husband's going to change the atf over the weekend,does anyone know how many litres we will need for this job?

i phoned my local euro car spares and they recommended Triple QX Dexron 2,does this sound right?

if this doesn't work then we've decided the car's going on eBay for spares or repair,it's been an expensive mistake and i wish people would be more honest when they're selling cars,but that's life i suppose.

thanks.

[Devon Aygo]

hi again,and thanks for the replies.

my husband's going to change the atf over the weekend,does anyone know how many litres we will need for this job?

i phoned my local euro car spares and they recommended Triple QX Dexron 2,does this sound right?

if this doesn't work then we've decided the car's going on ebay for spares or repair,it's been an expensive mistake and i wish people would be more honest when they're selling cars,but that's life i suppose.

thanks.

ATF dextron 2 is NOT the correct grade for your transmission, Your Rav requires 3.9lt of ATF T-IV (type 4) type 4 is backwards compatible for old cars using dextron 2 but dextron 2 is not compatible with cars such as yours requiring type IV

[suek]

thanks for that lee

[firemac]

I would be inclined to use Toyota's own ATF - there are varying opinions on the numerous RAV forums about this. There is an argument that Toyota's T4 or WST are not interchangeable with stuff like Dexron.

For the cost of a phone call I'd phone your local Toyota dealer and just ask about their ATF. They can usually get it on next day del'y.

As far as quantity is concerned, measure what drains out and replace with exactly the same amount. Bear in mind that you won't get it all out as the torque converter holds a bit.

[Conrod]

You'll only get out just over 3 litres, so if sold by half litre bottles buy 7 bottles :)

[firemac]

I hope that you are able to find the ATF change helps or that you are able to find the fault & fix it cheaply. The 4.2 RAV auto is a lovely car - we've had 3 of 'em - and I'm sure you'd enjoy driving it.

You've been unlucky and only goes to prove the importance of a thorough test drive and asking of lots of questions to the vendor. Presumably you bought it privately so you unfortunately have little recourse against the vendor.

Good luck.

[suek]

hi and thanks again for the replies.

went to my local Toyota dealer today to order the atf,whilst there we had an interesting discussion with the service manager.

we told him all our problems and he recommended an atf change and filter clean,he said this can sometimes work wonders on an older car.

he also recommended a softwear update and checked that one was available for my car.it wasn't so that was a dead end.

he gave us the number of the autobox specialist that they use who i spoke to this afternoon and was quite bleak.

he said the ECUs rarely burn out on their own,but usually take the clutch in the gearbox with them.to fix this he quoted me £2000 + vat!

at this point the atf and filter clean is our last hope,but to be honest the autobox guy laughed at that,and yes,jim,it was a private sale,but we'll be wiser next time.

thanks

[suek]

hi everyone,another update,but more positive this time.

the atf fluid and filter clean was done last monday and as expected made no difference.

as a last resort i phoned ECU testing and spoke to a different person,who said that although they couldn't find a fault it didn't mean there wasn't a fault with my ECU.

he said that they also sell recon units and so we decided to go with that.

it was a £300 (or the best part of) gamble but so far so good.

smooth gear change and no jumping out of gear,what a relief!hope i've not jinxed it!

anyway,a happy ending to a lengthy saga.

keep you posted and thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

[crofter]

Great news Sue,now for many more happy motoring miles

Del

[Conrod]

That is very good news, the RAV4 has been saved for the price of an ECU :)

[firemac]

That's good news, Sue. Hopefully that will be a perm solution and you can get on with enjoying the car.

It might also be worth noting this approach for the future reference of others since I think that we've all believed that the re-flashing of the ECU was the final resort in terms of a fix. The info from ECUT would suggest a further option that can be investigated if necessary.