Clutch

[gargol]

Hi

My T27 2010 petrol Avensis with 31000 miles on has started juddering on take up in first gear when hot after 30 or so miles.

From cold it is fine with no judder.

My local dealers have it in the workshop now and after checking the engine mounts say that the gearbox needs to come out to check the clutch.

Five hours after telling me this they say the box is not yet out as it is a major job.

The car is still under warranty, but I fear that they will tell me that the problem is due to wear and tear.

I have never had a clutch out since 1964, selling my cars on with over 70000 miles.

Do any one know how long the job should take and the approx cost?

Deal not able to say!

[ToyotaAuris]

31,000 miles and clutch is gone? Sounds like abnormal wear unless your holding clutch for too long. Is it at Toyota dealer or independent dealer?

[gargol]

Mr T as it is still under warranty, i have never had a clutch fail as I treat them with respect.

[avensis rob]

might be the dmf?

if it has one

[gargol]

Thanks for reply, but petrol engine is solid flywheel.

Just want to be prepared if I get stung!

[avensis rob]

this may sound daft or weird

but

most my cars and vans ive had have developed slight judder from clutch noticed from pulling away from junctions and roundabouts.

the car and van I own at present give this symptom and the avensis I have at present had the clutch kit and dmf replaced brand new 22k miles ago just before I bought it as a condition of the sale deal .- so I had to wait for car to be ready and I seen it stripped out at the dealer in this time.

its just my driving style - don't know why but its deep, I have never replaced a clutch / gearbox / driveshaft on any of my vehicles due to wear or tear.or for any other reason

don't get me wrong im not rally shifting or anything

I press the clutch give it a second for the synchros to do their job , clean shift and release quickly with no drag.

nothing wrong with clutch

its cause I snatch clutch into gear most of the time kind of like an on and off switch if you like with no riding of the clutch and don't allow it to bed in.and get sticky with the flywheel

on my Subaru with an organic stage 2 clutch it was more noticeable and a launch or two cured it for a long time

[avensis rob]

if its solid flywheel the you probably know the pressure plate does the same thing and can also fail with a broken spring

or other failings

let us know how you get on man

[gargol]

I am hoping for what you say about the springs, fingers xed.

Never had this problem before.

Even the clutch on my 78 mgb gt has 55000 on from new.

Odd that it only happens after a longish run and not when cold.

Will keep you posted.

[alan333]

I'm sure I read somewhere (on here probably) about someone with premature clutch wear. IIRC they used the auto clutch release function. Do you use it?

[gargol]

Just had a call from the garage who say clutch and flywheel are damaged by "normal wear and tear" at a cost of over £1000-00.

They are talking to Toyota but don't hold much hope.

I repeat, never had a clutch wear out in over 50 years motoring, so much for Toyota!!!

[gargol]

Yes I do use the auto release, but I have. not felt any problems with it.

[gargol]

Just had a call from the dealers to say that after refitting the gearbox, they found that the wrong slave cylinder has been fitted from new.

They are now waiting for a new one tomorrow.

Wonder if this has had any bearing on my problem?

[avensis rob]

yeah wrong dimensions may not let clutch return fully and hence drag / slip / premature wear

I would be contesting warranty for everything because thankfully they have admitted there is a wrong slave cylinder on there

if the stroke/rod of an external slave was too long and it couldn't return fully due to physical size

then the springs on the pressure plate aren't fully pressing pressure plate to friction plate

if its a csc fitted then same deal if its too big

if either were too short it would be opposite and crunching into gear

.................

theres other ways to look at this rather than physical size of parts

like ratios (diameter / volume of slave)

let us know what they say

or

if they have admitted and are doing the work foc

I should think so

..........................

I got my gearbox repaired twice on my brand new at the time 2007 lwb facelift hiace

synchros went in 800 miles

was a slave cylinder leak not causing full depression of clutch

warranty no problem

[gargol]

My thoughts too regarding length of arm and throw, gives me some ammunition.

Thanks for your input Rob, much appreciated.

Will see what happens tomorrow.

[ToyotaAuris]

Hi, nice to see Toyota will be replacing free and taking the blame for it (thats a change, probably have a good dealer). Ask if any other damage has been done because of this.

[gargol]

Rob had his clutch replaced free, I have not yet had a reply from Toyota, keeping my fingers xed.

[gargol]

Update,

The dealer now says that the slave was not wrong originally, but they used the wrong "phrase" when telling me, they say that they ordered the wrong part.

I now have the car back, and after contact with Toyota the bill was reduced from £1075 to £903.

To say I am not happy is an understatement!

I am attaching pics of the flywheel and plates, the original machine marks are still visible, along with an odd band of high spots.

I have emailed the MD today.

[gargol]

missed this pic out

[avensis rob]

Why order a new slave?

Is it a csc so advisable replacement when all stripped down? If so thats normal practice.

Hard to tell from pic but clutch still looks if it has a bit of meat left on it.

Is the other side worn to the rivets or worn down to the grooves?

Hard to see pics from phone just now

I see heat / slip damage to flywheel and pressure plate but if friction plate still has plenty of meat left on it then id say it isnt getting clamped enough and isnt slipping due to excess wear but rather a physical contact issue.

Sorry to hear your woes

[gargol]

Friction plate not yet down to rivets yet, but getting near.

Slave was csc.

Wear patern looks odd to me, not even across the flywheel and pressure plate, but the hard spot lines are the same position on both.

[Heidfirst]

Clutch failure at that mileage is not a normal occurrence on an Avensis. Have you taken it up with Toyota (as in manufacturer) Customer Relations & the Dealer Principal?

[gargol]

I have comlained to dealer principal manager, Toyota customer relations and today to Toyota MD.

Bill was reduced by £172 pounds to £903.

I totaly agree that the clutch should not have failed at 31500 miles.

[gargol]

Got a reply from Toyota today, basically saying that the dealer says its wear and tear so tough.

No answer as to why the hard spots are in a narrow band on both flywheel and pressure plate, or why no wear on original machine marking on them.

Seems that after 50 years I suddenly do not know how to treat a clutch, and am a boy racer.

Talking to a couple of taxi drivers today, the say that the get towards 200000 miles from the clutches on T 27s.

I do know that this is the last Toyota I will buy though!!!

[baba_metca]

This is strange. We have an auris and it was a toyota car for a year and half and the we bought it. It was 15 K miles then. After another 5000 miles there were problems with the clutch. We went to the dealer he examined the car and said that the clutch will need replacing. He said that they will call us in a week time when the parts arrive and will change it under warranty. And so they did. I believe that the problem is with your garage not toyota . Unfortunately that does not make you happy.

[gargol]

Toyota still don't want to know, say they cannot give an opinion on odd wear, it is up to dealer, so back to Benfield head office.

Looks like small claims court is looming.

Lost faith in Toyota now, so I am trading in for a new car, should arrive next week.

Toyota suck with me now!!!