New 1.2T Engine For The Auris

[FROSTYBALLS]

See.http://newsroom.toyota.eu/pressrelease/4215//1.2t-engine

[Uncle Buck]

Clever, but not before time. Nissan beat them to the bar this time. Should be great in the Yaris, but might still be a little underwhelming in the heavier Auris. A decent option at choosing time though & should be cheap to run.

[FROSTYBALLS]

In terms of power output, at 116bhp it slots in between the 1.33 at 100bhp and the 1.6 at 132bhp.

[spwolfx]

Clever, but not before time. Nissan beat them to the bar this time. Should be great in the Yaris, but might still be a little underwhelming in the heavier Auris. A decent option at choosing time though & should be cheap to run.

1.2t has 185nm of torque from 1500 to 4000... thats between 1.8l and 2.0l Valvematic engines... hence it goes 0-100kmh in 10.1s.

So it is going to be pretty fast for an Auris, only new 1.6 D4D is faster and not sure if that gets sold in the UK. It is faster than hybrid, which isnt slow.

Compared to Nissan Pulsar with 1.2t, Auris is faster (considerably more with CVT) while being 10% more efficient.

So it is pretty great looking engine on paper, good CO2 and good performance...

[Heidfirst]

wonder what the real world mpg will be though? most users of similar (e.g. Ford Ecoboost) get nothing like the official Eu test result.

[spwolfx]

wonder what the real world mpg will be though? most users of similar (e.f. Ford Ecoboost) get nothing like the official Eu test result.

who knows until we all drive it... but it is their latest engine with all the tech crammed in... It switches to Atkinson cycle as well.

It is going to be much more suitable for CVT (also improved) - with CVT it gets similar MPG to 1.6 D4D, so good tax rate? (106g/100km), plus since its sweet spot is between 1500 and 4000 rpm, CVT wont have to go to 6500 rpm when accelerating...

Lets keep in mind this is "premium" Auris, with double wishbone back suspension so it will be likely priced similar to 1.4 D4D which has simpler suspension but more expensive diesel. It will be interesting to see the pricing!

I hope they introduce this same engine to Yaris as well... i doubt it, but it would make Yaris much more pleasurable, especially if you need CVT.

[Miseryguts]

wonder what the real world mpg will be though? most users of similar (e.g. Ford Ecoboost) get nothing like the official Eu test result.

The Nissan Juke has the 1.2 Digi T engine and judging by some owners reviews the fuel consumption is not very good.

[spwolfx]

wonder what the real world mpg will be though? most users of similar (e.g. Ford Ecoboost) get nothing like the official Eu test result.

The Nissan Juke has the 1.2 Digi T engine and judging by some owners reviews the fuel consumption is not very good.

there are many turbo engines out there... this one probably has the most tech in it, at least out of the ones in the same class.

Personally, I would not even ever buy 1.33 or 1.6l engine for myself since they are slow - 1.6l is not that frugal and 1.2t will certainly be more frugal than it, while delivering torque of 1.8-2.0 engine for much, much larger time... so essentially, this engine should be faster than if they gave it 2.0l from Avensis :-).

[FROSTYBALLS]

When you compare the figures of the 1.2T and the 1.6 -

- 116bhp for the 1.2T and 132bhp for the 1.6.

- they have virtually the same acceleration to 60mph (10.2 v 10.1) and the same top speed (124mph)

- maximum torque of the 1.2T is 185 v 160 for the 1.6

- official fuel consumption 60.1mpg for the 1.2T and 47.9 for the 1.6

- CO2 emissions 109g/km for the 1.2T and 138g/km for the 1.6.

- the increased torque of the 1.2T will partly be countered by the 1.6's greater bhp.

So where the 1.2T seems to be an advance over the 1.6 is in fuel consumption and emissions.

[spwolfx]

When you compare the figures of the 1.2T and the 1.6 -

- 116bhp for the 1.2T and 132bhp for the 1.6.

- they have virtually the same acceleration to 60mph (10.2 v 10.1) and the same top speed (124mph)

- maximum torque of the 1.2T is 185 v 160 for the 1.6

- official fuel consumption 60.1mpg for the 1.2T and 47.9 for the 1.6

- CO2 emissions 109g/km for the 1.2T and 138g/km for the 1.6.

- the increased torque of the 1.2T will partly be countered by the 1.6's greater bhp.

So where the 1.2T seems to be an advance over the 1.6 is in fuel consumption and emissions.

1.2t is going to be a LOT faster than 1.6l in real life, because it has full 185nm of torque from 1500rpm to 4000rpm, this is better than diesel engines. On the other hand, you would have to drive 1.6l constantly between 4400 and 6400 rpm to get anywhere as quick.

So yes, in real life, 1.2t will be really nice engine... finally in a Toyota!

[Heidfirst]

but as I said lots of these small turbo petrols don't actually deliver in the real world anything like the mpg (& therefore emissions) that they do in EU tests - you only need to look at the likes of What Car's Truempg to see that e.g. Focus Zetec 1.0 Ecoboost- official 56mpg, average Truempg 35 .... that's nearly 40% less :o

& that's before mentioning that being more complicated they are equally less reliable (& more expensive to fix).

[spwolfx]

but as I said lots of these small turbo petrols don't actually deliver in the real world anything like the mpg (& therefore emissions) that they do in EU tests - you only need to look at the likes of What Car's Truempg to see that e.g. Focus Zetec 1.0 Ecoboost- official 56mpg, average Truempg 35 .... that's nearly 40% less :o

& that's before mentioning that being more complicated they are equally less reliable (& more expensive to fix).

whats exactly the problem with Toyota finally offering modern turbo engine? It seems like people are hurt over it.

Compared to ecoboost engines, this is larger engine with 4cly, not 3cly... plus it has atkinson cycle cruising like hybrids.

Real life performance of this engine will certainly not be beatable with 1.6l engine, in any way or sense, from performance to economy.

[FROSTYBALLS]

but as I said lots of these small turbo petrols don't actually deliver in the real world anything like the mpg (& therefore emissions) that they do in EU tests - you only need to look at the likes of What Car's Truempg to see that e.g. Focus Zetec 1.0 Ecoboost- official 56mpg, average Truempg 35 .... that's nearly 40% less :o

& that's before mentioning that being more complicated they are equally less reliable (& more expensive to fix).

whats exactly the problem with Toyota finally offering modern turbo engine? It seems like people are hurt over it.

It isn't that people are hurt by the fact that Toyota are introducing small capacity turbo engines.

The main focus for Toyota and the majority of customers will be the improvements in efficiency - ie lower CO2 and better economy - with any improvements in performance being largely secondary.

Think people, having seen small capacity turbcharged engines from other manufacturers achieving disappointing economy, are waiting to see whether this new Toyota engine lives up to its promise

[spwolfx]

but as I said lots of these small turbo petrols don't actually deliver in the real world anything like the mpg (& therefore emissions) that they do in EU tests - you only need to look at the likes of What Car's Truempg to see that e.g. Focus Zetec 1.0 Ecoboost- official 56mpg, average Truempg 35 .... that's nearly 40% less :o

& that's before mentioning that being more complicated they are equally less reliable (& more expensive to fix).

whats exactly the problem with Toyota finally offering modern turbo engine? It seems like people are hurt over it.

It isn't that people are hurt by the fact that Toyota are introducing small capacity turbo engines.

The main focus for Toyota and the majority of customers will be the improvements in efficiency - ie lower CO2 and better economy - with any improvements in performance being largely secondary.

Think people, having seen small capacity turbcharged engines from other manufacturers achieving disappointing economy, are waiting to see whether this new Toyota engine lives up to its promise

well, i dont agree with that at all... as Toyota said in their PR, this engine is made for both performance and low consumption. It was definitely not a secondary, if you look at torque curve which is flat from 1500rpm to 4000rpm, you will realize that. It has broader range of torque an hp than Nissan's 1.2t, together with 20nm of more maximum torque.

If they just wanted low emissions, they would have done 3cly turbo like Ford and Fiat do, then slap big turbo on it for max hp... but they did not.

Right now, compared to Germans, Toyota has a big competitive issues in modern petrol engines, despite things like Valvematic because small 4cly engines have a problem of low torque down below... Many people preffer to pay extra €1k in Golf and get a turbo version... which was not possible in Toyota. This is now solving this issue.

I hope it gets into Yaris as well.

When you guys get it in July, please do a test between it and 1.33/1.6l and tell us how it goes... It should be the best of worlds between diesel and petrols, because petrol is going to be a lot more free revving than diesel, plus it has bigger torque spread. Of course, i doubt consumption will be close to 1.6 diesel but lets see... i doubt it will be worse than 1.33l in real life... especially if you are driving nicely.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Extract from Toyota's press release

"The combination of these technologies results in outstanding performance and efficiency.With a displacement of just 1,197cc, the engine delivers 114bhp (85kW) and constant torque of 185Nm between 1,500 and 4,000rpm. It will push the new Auris hatchback from rest to 62mph in 10.1 seconds. Acceleration from 50 to 75mph in fifth gear takes 13.7 seconds, and top speed is set at 124mph.

All of this is achieved despite a focus on fuel economy and CO2 emissions: the car achieves 60.1mpg* on the combined cycle and 109g/km* of CO2.

The key to achieving this level of fuel consumption without compromising performance is to apply higher compression, ......."

[yossarian247]

I appreciate the reasons why Toyota have to introduce such an engine to keep up with the competition, but it really depends what you want from a car. I went for a 1.6 petrol Valvematic mainly because it is so low tech by modern standards! I do mainly DIY servicing and keep my cars for years. I've had a few technically advanced engines in cars (ok, not Toyota admittedly) that plagued me with tedious and expensive faults. Perhaps I'm just getting old, but personally I prefer a mediocre engine that works reliably to an exciting/advanced engine that works when it feels like it :-)

[spwolfx]

lol

Extract from Toyota's press release

"The combination of these technologies results in outstanding performance and efficiency.With a displacement of just 1,197cc, the engine delivers 114bhp (85kW) and constant torque of 185Nm between 1,500 and 4,000rpm. It will push the new Auris hatchback from rest to 62mph in 10.1 seconds. Acceleration from 50 to 75mph in fifth gear takes 13.7 seconds, and top speed is set at 124mph.

All of this is achieved despite a focus on fuel economy and CO2 emissions: the car achieves 60.1mpg* on the combined cycle and 109g/km* of CO2.

The key to achieving this level of fuel consumption without compromising performance is to apply higher compression, ......."

do you realize that 80% of that engine PR that you quoted is about performance? I dont see whats the problem... do you think 1.4D4D is slower than 1.33 because it has 9hp less and their 0-60 is pretty similar?

I mean whats the deal?

[spwolfx]

I appreciate the reasons why Toyota have to introduce such an engine to keep up with the competition, but it really depends what you want from a car. I went for a 1.6 petrol Valvematic mainly because it is so low tech by modern standards! I do mainly DIY servicing and keep my cars for years. I've had a few technically advanced engines in cars (ok, not Toyota admittedly) that plagued me with tedious and expensive faults. Perhaps I'm just getting old, but personally I prefer a mediocre engine that works reliably to an exciting/advanced engine that works when it feels like it :-)

well, saying we want mediocre engines is not really good :-).

As long as it is engineered correctly, it will last as long as ZR engines do... for instance ZR with Valvematic is significantly more advanced than previous ZZ engines and does not have issues like ZZ engines had.

I have faith in Toyota that they have engineered long lasting engine, especially since this is new design done with Toyoda in charge. Keep in mind that their most complicated powertrains like hybrids are actually also their most reliable ones.

[VVP]

anyone got real fuel consumptions with cvt?

[TomdeGuerre]

anyone got real fuel consumptions with cvt?

Are you asking about the 1.6 Auris CVT or the new 1.2T with CVT?

[VVP]

anyone got real fuel consumptions with cvt?

Are you asking about the 1.6 Auris CVT or the new 1.2T with CVT?

1.2t