5 Years With A Prius

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Never happen. Well maybe in 20+ years for trucks but it's not safe or viable for private cars. The insurance industry will be wary about a vehicle holding hydrogen at 10,000 psi, and regardless of that, who does the inspections on that tank and at what cost and when?

Don't hydraulic lines on jcbs and the like need inspections for insurance purposes because of the damages that could be done if one of those lines goes pop? Surely something similar will need to be done on a fuel cell tank? Think paying £80 a year to get your lpg tank inspected was a pain, wait for the cost of the service on a hydrogen tank.

I just can't see hydrogen vehicles being financially viable even if their purchase costs come down to that of petrol/diesel cars (unlikely in 10 years). They're overly complicated using overly complicated fuel - to store it is a nightmare. Even BMW have said hydrogen is a dead end and have gone BEV/plug in.

There is a place for hydrogen, but it's in fleets and commercial operations. Mrs Miggins who does 12,000 a year to work and back isn't going to find it anywhere near viable.

Hydrogens raison d-etre is to enable Shell/Esso to continue selling you something and allow the Government to continue taxing it. It's also handy for vehicles that would regularly travel further than 250 miles each and every day. Though surely diesel would be good for that for decades to come?

Hydrogen and fuel cells are a case of the Emperors New Clothes.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

It may have been feasible if the refuelling infrastructure was already there, the fuel cell vehicle technology has been around for a good 10 years or more already.

Its little to do with infrastructure of refuelling in my opinion (although it obviously plays a small part), its more the production. Its so energy intensive that it'll never be green, let alone viable, on a mass scale.

[cobh18]

Versatile substance hydrogen: used to cool power station turbine bearings as it carries heat away well. Yes, there are some issues, but I suspect the risks would be less overall (in a specifically designed tank with hydride technology) and protected pipework, than carrying petrol around in a flimsy tank with vulnerable pipework!

[kithmo]

It may have been feasible if the refuelling infrastructure was already there, the fuel cell vehicle technology has been around for a good 10 years or more already.

Its little to do with infrastructure of refuelling in my opinion (although it obviously plays a small part), its more the production. Its so energy intensive that it'll never be green, let alone viable, on a mass scale.

and there's me thinking you just stick a couple of bottles of sea water under the bonnet with wires connected to the 12v and a rubber tube to the manifold

http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=927

[kithmo]

Never happen. Well maybe in 20+ years for trucks but it's not safe or viable for private cars. The insurance industry will be wary about a vehicle holding hydrogen at 10,000 psi, and regardless of that, who does the inspections on that tank and at what cost and when?

Don't hydraulic lines on jcbs and the like need inspections for insurance purposes because of the damages that could be done if one of those lines goes pop? Surely something similar will need to be done on a fuel cell tank? Think paying £80 a year to get your lpg tank inspected was a pain, wait for the cost of the service on a hydrogen tank.

I just can't see hydrogen vehicles being financially viable even if their purchase costs come down to that of petrol/diesel cars (unlikely in 10 years). They're overly complicated using overly complicated fuel - to store it is a nightmare. Even BMW have said hydrogen is a dead end and have gone BEV/plug in.

There is a place for hydrogen, but it's in fleets and commercial operations. Mrs Miggins who does 12,000 a year to work and back isn't going to find it anywhere near viable.

Hydrogens raison d-etre is to enable Shell/Esso to continue selling you something and allow the Government to continue taxing it. It's also handy for vehicles that would regularly travel further than 250 miles each and every day. Though surely diesel would be good for that for decades to come?

Hydrogen and fuel cells are a case of the Emperors New Clothes.

How about a nuclear fusion generator then ?

http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-A-Fusion-Reactor/

[kevin h]

Mmmm, some interesting stuff here.

My 2009 Prius has steadily been getting better real life MPG touching on around 67 at the moment.

not to much motorway driving except for the annual trip to Germany. the last one achieved 74 MPG sitting at 67 MPH.

i've been looking at the Outlander PHEV and have been very very tempted, but its that longer journey that troubles me.

Calculated fuel costs for Junes Germany trip and its frightening how much the PHEV would cost.

But it also made me think, how does recharging in the rest of Europe compare to the UK. 3 pin plug at home and rapid charger at the service stations.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

But why does getting 35 mpg for one trip a year scare you when at other times you can be getting 999mpg for trips upto 30 miles? I guess it depends on your daily driving needs, but the Outlander has the most flexible range, seating and cost of all the PHEVs out there.

[PeteB]

I agree. If it had just 3 more features (spare wheel, digital instruments, HUD), had have bought the top model. Nice leather interior, power front seats with memories, 4WD for the odd spell of bad weather, brill.

I'm just hoping the Gen 4 Prius has all these (4WD has been mooted) and an optional (at least) spare wheel.

If not, I think I'll be keeping my Gen 3 long term. Not a hardship, after over 13 years and 300,000 miles in Prius models, I still love the smooth way it drives and the low running costs. I only hanker for an EV without range anxiety.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

But it also made me think, how does recharging in the rest of Europe compare to the UK. 3 pin plug at home and rapid charger at the service stations.

Just takes twice as long on 110v, PiP in the UK is about 80-90 min and 3hrs on 110v.

But why does getting 35 mpg for one trip a year scare you when at other times you can be getting 999mpg for trips upto 30 miles? I guess it depends on your daily driving needs, but the Outlander has the most flexible range, seating and cost of all the PHEVs out there.

Because let's face it, it won't be just once a year, and the 30miles is nearer 15-17 real world EV range from what I've seen, without heat etc. Add to this the 35mpg being a best scenario.

Sound like I'm not the only one who's done my homework, it'll be interesting to see the owners reviews and remarks on the outlander PHEV. Might pop over to their forum at some point to see how many are please with what they've got and if it's met / exceeded expectations or not.

[PeteB]

fair comment. Any range extended EV (which is effectively what the PiP and Outlander are) will work very differently according to the driving patterns of the owner.

In my case, I think I'd be almost entirely EV except for 1 or 2 250 miles round trips a month (with partial charging opportunities), and maybe 2/3 more where I'd use half a gallon or so.

One day (health permitting) I'll do a 3 month drive around Spain, which may be more challenging, but I can live with that.

[barrycoll]

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mitsubishi/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-2014-road-test/

A very positive review of this rather large car, and with 5 levels of regen, it surely must be capable of more than 35mph en route to Germany (or a 3 month trip to Spain, Pete)

[MEP's Yaris GS]

fair comment. Any range extended EV (which is effectively what the PiP and Outlander are) will work very differently according to the driving patterns of the owner.

In my case, I think I'd be almost entirely EV except for 1 or 2 250 miles round trips a month (with partial charging opportunities), and maybe 2/3 more where I'd use half a gallon or so.

One day (health permitting) I'll do a 3 month drive around Spain, which may be more challenging, but I can live with that.

Agreed, the thing with PHEVs is they'll be very circumstantial on personal use as to what will suit each person best. All I know is that it wouldn't suit my current useage patterns, and even if it did its just too big with big car running costs like tyres etc.

For some it'll be just right though, especially those who normally buy a chealsea tractor also.

With the above aside the only concern I also had was the lack of warranty, in conparison to Toyota's, for what is new car tech for Mitsubishi.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mitsubishi/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-2014-road-test/

A very positive review of this rather large car, and with 5 levels of regen, it surely must be capable of more than 35mph en route to Germany (or a 3 month trip to Spain, Pete)

I'll admit, I've not opened the link as on my phone, but I often take HJ articles with a pinch of salt.

Not sure if you've seen the fully charged review of the outlander on YouTube? Now that was interesting and from someone with an EV head so gave it an honest EV review.