Help Me Make An Informed Decision About My Next Car, Please.

[defever]

Good afternoon Avensis drivers,

I am very keen to buy second hand Toyota for my next car and I would like to humbly ask for your knowledge and wisdom on which particular model of Avensis Tourer is suitable for me.

I currently own A4 Avant 1.9 TDi SE 110bhp (common rail direct injection, 167,000miles, combined 55mpg) and I like this 16yo simple car very much. I learned so much about car mechanic and I do basic DIY repair / maintenance. I use VW Audi forum a lot for information and “how to”s, familiar with sourcing OEM parts and the use of OBD program (VCDS for WV Audi cars). I’d like to think that I know enough to understand the basic anatomy and mechanic, though I don’t claim to be a trained car technician. I can do the following so far:

• Interim oil & filter change (I take it to a garage for full service stamp and proper check by a professional)
• Rear jet wash motor replacement
• Towbar bypass relay replacement
• Coolant flush & bleed
• Thermostat & coolant temperature sensor replacement
• Coolant hose replacement
• MAF sensor, intake / exhaust manifold and turbo clean (complete removal)
• EGR delete

I have a diesel estate because I use my car mostly for long journey with some load (baggage or passengers) and this won’t change anytime in near future (except the addition of little people, hopefully!). My partner has Yaris ’06 Petrol 1.3L and that’s good enough for her use and local run-around. We both like Yaris very much as it is very reliable, economical and its Japanese (half of my family is from Japan)!

What I am looking for in the next car is:

• Budget £2,500 - £3,000
• Long-term reliability and consistency
• 2.0L Diesel (big enough for our needs)
• 6 speed
• Cruise control
• Front fog lights (as DRL)
• Combined MPG as nearer as possible to 50+
• Capability to carry out basic DIY repair maintenance (use of OBD, access to “how to” info, online manual, sourcing parts, etc.)

What I am not fussed about (but are good bonus) is:

• Alloy wheel
• Parking sensors
• Integrated SatNav
• Multimedia stuff including hand-free phone system

Based on this, the most realistic choise, I think, is a 2^nd generation Avensis Tourer (T250 facelift '06-'08) 2.0L D4D 114bhp (1CD-FTV) or 125bhp (2AD-FTV) with 100,000+mileage on it.

So my questions are:

• Which engine (1CD or 2AD) is more reliable, if any difference at all?
• Are these engine chained timing belt?
• What are the trim differences (T2, T3-S, T3-X, T4, Tspirit, T180, TR) and which are most suitable for me?
• What are the pitfalls / common problems specific to 2.0 D4D models?
• What are the specific point to look out for 100,000+mileage Avensis?
• Is Avensis a DIY friendly car (easy to buy parts, access to OBD, “how to” info online, etc)?

I think I’m in the right track bychoosing Avensis Tourer as my next car and I would like to hear everyone’s thoughts on the specific questions above to make an informed decision on which Avensis to buy.

Thank you very much for reading and I hope the kind people of this very forum can shed some light to me.

Happy motoring!

[Heidfirst]

the 1CD is more reliable because it's older & therefore simpler. However, it's belt-driven whereas the 1AD-FTV (the 2AD are 2.2s) is chain-driven.

You want to be aware of the potential head/headgasket issue on the AD engines as if you get it it's a very expensive fix. It does seem that the 2.0 is less prone (but not immune) though.

Not sure that you can get a facelift with a 1CD?

The trim levels exact equipment change year by year. My usual advice is that TR offers the best value as long as you don't absolutely need leather or some other feature that only was found in a higher spec. My 57 plate TR had satnav, cruise, power retracting mirrors etc. etc. - no powered/heated/leather seats though.

When cold the change into 2nd going up or down the 6-speed box is usually quite obstructive but once warm is OK. Also, these engines are known to take a long time to reach optimum working temp.

Headlights are poor but can be improved by replacing with better bulbs than oem. Can get condensation/leaks in both front & rear light clusters.

Oem brakes work but don't imo give a lot of feel & hence confidence in extremis - again this can be remedied by using third party discs/pads when they need changed anyway.

Handling-wise it will never be a sports car.

Other than the potential head/headgasket issue mentioned I don't think that they really have any particular problems other than those that are generic to modern common-rail direct injection diesels. I don't think that you will get the average 55+mpg out of it that you say that you are getting in the Audi (HonestJohn's RealMPG puts them both fractionally under 50mpg) but you might if you do very little urban.

I must admit that I don't service my own cars but it seems from the forum that the T250 series is fairly DIY-friendly. You can get oem & 3rd party parts easily, OBD access, how to's etc.

[defever]

Thanks very much Heidfirst, that's a fantastic response.

I'm likely to be ill-informed about the engine codes and facelift. CD engines are probably pre-facelift and AD is the facelift engine. I'm gearing towards the chained 2.0 AD engines (though the belt should still be good as far as it's been replaced at right interval, but this is always a risk with second-hand cars even with FSH). Where in the car can I find its engine code? Somewhere in the bonnet, by spare wheel or in the manual?

It’s also nice to be warned about head gasket issue, especially when I’m looking for higher mileage engines. I’ll be checking for milky deposit, oil in coolant tank, white smoke from exhaust pipe when I start shopping around. Thank
you for this.

Knowing which trim to look for is also a really good help, as it seems to be undefined anywhere. Within my budget, I can see pretty much most of the trim variations on AutoTrader and it’s nice to be suggested to go for TR as a guide.

T250 being DIY friendly is also a bonus; I know how to do small things like oil change so I’d like to be able to save some money in small jobs without posing any danger to the public.

Also, I’m little bit old fashioned and I prefer a full size spare wheel. But I’m assuming all T250 model is supplied by skinny space saver spare wheel and there won’t be a space under the boot even if I buy a spare full size wheel. Is this correct?

Thank you and hopefully I can become an Avensis owner in near future.

[Heidfirst]

another indicator of the head gasket going (which can lead to head damage due to "gasket shuffle" & Toyota say that these heads should not be skimmed) is white/pink spotting around the expansion tank.

You know, I can't remember for sure what my 57 plate had but I think that it was a space saver. Pretty sure that there is room for a full size spare though - hopefully someone who still has one will answer in thread. Given that the shelf life of a tyre is supposed to be ~7 years chances are that the spare really ought to be replaced (unless it already has been).

[defever]

Thank you, yes if anyone can confirm that a spare full size wheel can be stored in place of space saver then that will be another bonus point for me.

On a similar note, I never took notion of wheel shelf life of up to 7yrs... I doubt mine had ever been changed...!

[alan333]

Where in the car can I find its engine code?

I'm pretty sure the "new" engine had the 6 speed box, where the "old" had the 5 speed (but I'm not certain), maybe others can confirm.

[avensisd4d786]

Hi Bob,

I have all 1cd models all pre facelift I'm yet to see a facelift 1cd in the uk.

04 (tspirit) and 06 (t2) both had space savers. I can confirm a full size 16" and 17" can fit in the spare wheel well. I also have a 03 t3-x which came with a full size spare wheel the two differences I have noticed. the securing bolt is longer on the full size also the foam thing that holds the wheel wrench is different to the space savers.

1cd in my opinion is very reliable. I probably wont own a 1ad-ftv t25 due to headgasket problem unless I seen proof beforehand that the engine had been changed by Toyota.

1cd has 5 gears- if you do decide to go for the 1cd- make sure 5th gear does not pop out. heavy clutch pedal would be a indication that the pressure plate has gone bad.

I know the t2 does not have cruise control I would have to check the t3-x as its parked up. I assume it has.

pre face did not come in a TR model. I used to have a guide which showed what different specifications I will see if I can dig it out.

I hope this helps.

[defever]

Thanks very much Alan333 and Top Rank Poster!, your comments are very helpful.

So it's likely that I got the information wrong on the engine codes; CD for pre-facelift and AD for facelift.

Also it’s very nice to be confirmed re: spare full size wheel in the boot.

So, pre-facelift is more reliability but 5 speed gear and issue with popping gear.

Facelift is 6 speed gear but has the head gasket problem.

Looking at 100,000+mileage second hand cars, would either problem (gear on pre-facelift or head on facelift) have manifested prior to reaching 100,000 miles or are these “how long is a piece of string” scenario? I’m thinking that anything big like these issues would have manifested and been sorted before reaching 100,000+miles. I will be looking at cars with FSH only so hopefully I can check these with some evidence.

A little more question on the head gasket problem on facelift T250; has this issue been resolved on the 3^rd generation Avensis ’09 onwards? Had a quick look on the 3^rd generation stats last night and combined MPG is around 54mpg for 2.0 D4Ds.

[avensisd4d786]

1cd-ftv

1ad-ftv

this link may be a good read to you

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/145222-how-many-miles-can-you-get-out-of-an-avensis/

from being on the forum and looking at spares/repair cars the mileage seems to be around 90-110 for head gasket issues.

the 5th gear is not as common on this forum as the head gasket, maybe as it can be fixed by just replacing the 5th gear and whilst the box is in situ.

coming from the audi have you thought about the octavia estate 1.9?

[defever]

oh, thank you very much for the photographs!

Yes, I also considered Octavia and Passat, as I am familiar with VAG car now. VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi are all under VW group so I can competently work with VW or Skoda (some parts are interchangeable amongst different makers). They both are good estate with good MPG.

But I want to try a Japanese car next, and considering other Japanese cars (Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubish, Suzuki...), Avensis gets my top mark.

Thank you everyone for all the information so far. I learned plenty in the last 24hrs and have some homework to do now. I will update every now and then to keep everyone in the loop.

I do like a bit of older cars, they are simpler to work on and certainly have some character!

[avensisd4d786]

I think the avensis is a wise choice, i forgot to add if your going for a t27 aim for one after june 2010 as they came with 5 year warranty and I believe it can be extended.

[alan333]

A little more question on the head gasket problem on facelift T250; has this issue been resolved on the 3^rd generation Avensis ’09 onwards? Had a quick look on the 3^rd generation stats last night and combined MPG is around 54mpg for 2.0 D4Ds.

I'm pretty sure the engine issue was resolved with the T27 shape.

I owned a 59 plate T27 2.0 diesel TR before my current car and although high 50's MPG was possible, it was more like 50-52 MPG average. To put that in context my current T27 1.8 auto returns 40-45 MPG with the same driving style and the same commute etc. It works out at a couple of hundred quid more per year for the petrol (10k miles), but I don't have all the diesel worries, and the car was cheaper to buy. I should add tho, that mine can go down to about 37 MPG if not driven so serenely.

I also owned two T25 1.8 vvti's - a manual and an auto. The manual gave about 50 MPG, the auto about 36 MPG. Spec wise the T2 has everything you need like air con, remote locking, electric front windows, height adjust seat etc....but none of the things you want like climate control, cruise, alloys, front fogs. The T3s has a crap but functional sat nav, where the T3x has auto wipers and such.

[Heidfirst]

The head gasket issue can occur really at any point from ~40k up (I'm sure that somebody somewhere can probably find an even earlier one). Production after February 2009 is supposedly OK but some T27s were produced before then (I believe that T27 actually went into production around Sept. 2008 to build launch stocks).

If you are looking at cars with 100k + remember that at that point you are into the area where it is likely going to need a new DPF (T27), injectors, possibly clutch & DMF etc. etc. in the not too distant future. It's quite possible that whilst a petrol would have higher fuel & road tax costs it may overall be cheaper to run due to not needing to replace those.