Goodbye Prius, Hello Leaf

[Heidfirst]

"It's a shame Toyota don't have an offering. Image if it were the Auris EV instead of the Leaf that was getting all the attention."

but Toyota shift 3 times as many Auris hybrids & they are profitable sales ...

at what point do you think all these currently free chargepoints will actually start to charge for electricity used?

[Dapple]

I am really pleased to hear you have plumped for a Leaf GC.

I still haven't decided whether to jump out of my Prius, with only a CT200 and a Leaf as serious contenders.

You make a very strong case for the Leaf and I will be looking again at it.

There will of course come a time when the freebiesparks start to cost money but I reckon the next 12-24 months will remain a golden free time to run an EV.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Those are the cars I'd consider(ed). I like free road tax just because it's nice not to have to pay it on a larger car. I remember when I bought the Prius back in September 2009! and I thought then that the free road tax was a perk to grab whilst it was available and it was bound to come to an end sooner than later. Six years later and it's still free on the Prius, though surely the skint Government are bound to lower the free threshold? At least with an EV this won't bother me.

Regarding free charging, that's almost come to an end in many places, though some offer PAYG. Whist this may work out about the same as running a petrol/diesel car for the same miles, the idea is that these chargers are for occassional use. Most EVers have their own solar PV and some, like me, use Ecotricity for their electricity at home. They provide a nationwide network of free fast chargers and issue free membership cards to any EV owner, at least for the foreseeable. Even if they do start to charge, I'm sure they'll be free for electricity customers. They are the cheapest supplier for me in my area (though it pays to check) and also give a token 1,000 free miles every year. Effectively £40 discount if you own an EV.

http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-the-road/sign-up/discount-for-electric-car-drivers

I appreciate all these little things will come to an end at some point, though like with the free road tax on the Prius, you never know when or even if.

I also like not being reliant on the whims of petrol companies etc, and am happy to put up with a restricted range for the other benefits such as clean air (my electric supplier is 100% renewable so no smoke from the power stations).

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely. Sat in the office or McDonalds or wherever and know you're heading out to the car? Just switch on the a/c from your phone, clear up, pay, have a wee and when you get to your car it's nice and cool - that's the future :)

[CPN]

I'm surprised that Toyota haven't enabled that sort of thing in the Hybrids! I wouldn't have thought it would be too difficult (with the Smart Pack) to organise the software so that you could remotely put the car into "Ready" mode and start the A/C but keep the doors locked until you approach the vehicle with your fob...

[Cyker]

Do the HSDs have mobile cell chips in them like the Leaf and Model S? They'd need to for that kind of remote functionality.

I do wonder how hackable some of these remote-enabled cars are tho...

[CPN]

Do the HSDs have mobile cell chips in them like the Leaf and Model S? They'd need to for that kind of remote functionality.

I do wonder how hackable some of these remote-enabled cars are tho...

The best they can do at the moment is internet access via a bluetooth tethered internet enabled mobile phone but it wouldn't be a stretch to add on a mobile package to the Touch 2 really...

Point taken about the hackable bit. They'd sure have to have some serious security built in... ;)

[Heidfirst]

by April 2018 all new cars in Europe will have to have eCall. I believe that in the US Lexus/Toyota cars already have it but they also have remote aircon http://www.toyota.com/prius/#!/features/technology/remote-air-conditioning.

[PeteB]

...I also like not being reliant on the whims of petrol companies etc...

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely...

I've been looking or something electric or PHEV for some time for the same reasons as you, and not least for the all electric driving experience. My test drive in the BMW i3 and experience of a converted Gen 2 Prius around 8 years ago underline that desire.

I'd also like a bit of luxury (leather seats with cooled air ventilation, powered memory seats, radar cruise control, 360° cameras etc.), which is why I looked at the Outlander PHEV, until I found it had no spare wheel (no HUD and old fashion dials for instruments also put me off).

However, the only car that came close to matching my range needs for several times a year is the Tesla Models S with longer range Battery, but that comes in at around £65k. Turns out, the 300ish mile range only happens if you stay at 55 mph or below and don't use heating or AC!

So the day trip I do to Hull from the Norfolk/Suffolk border once or twice a year would be extended by 13 or so hours charging, IF (and it's a big IF) I could find somewhere to charge it. Even twice monthly 250 mile round trips to Bedfordshire would be challenging.

In time Tesla's supercharger network will no doubt reach eastern England, and that would make all the difference, but even so dictates a route via these stations. (They say these will always be free for their customers).

One thing (among many) I love about my Prius is my ability to leave home with a full tank and do 500-600 miles.

I think the future is very exciting and I have high hopes for the 4th Gen Prius, but hoping they don't ruin it by going backwards like they did with the Yaris.

Something like a Leaf may well suit me in years to come when I don't feel up to doing longer journeys (60 next year)!

I wish you well with yours, and would be pleased to carry on reading about your experience on this group if you are happy to do so.

[Dapple]

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely. Sat in the office or McDonalds or wherever and know you're heading out to the car? Just switch on the a/c from your phone, clear up, pay, have a wee and when you get to your car it's nice and cool - that's the future :)

With respect GC, remote a/c is also in the past. My 2009 Gen 3 Solar has it!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely. Sat in the office or McDonalds or wherever and know you're heading out to the car? Just switch on the a/c from your phone, clear up, pay, have a wee and when you get to your car it's nice and cool - that's the future :)

With respect GC, remote a/c is also in the past. My 2009 Gen 3 Solar has it!

OK remote control Air Conditioning where the compressor comes on and actively cools the cabin right down, rather than a bog standard fan that really doesn't. But the other benefit is heating in winter without being plugged in. It's minus 5c, you're about to finish work and you switch on the heating. By the time you say your goodbyes, pop to the loo, go down in the lift, wander across the carpark you car is lovely and warm and the ice defrosted. (at least that's the plan lol)

The gen3 Prius was heading in the right direction and could have had options such as remote heating/air conditioning, and the PIP could have been that car. It wasn't and I think Toyota had a change of thinking or direction about 2010/11 and lost interest in BEV or PHEV and decided on hydrogen. Maybe they do have plans ahead? I know historically they've kept their cards very close, so never say never.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

...I also like not being reliant on the whims of petrol companies etc...

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely...

However, the only car that came close to matching my range needs for several times a year is the Tesla Models S with longer range Battery, but that comes in at around £65k. Turns out, the 300ish mile range only happens if you stay at 55 mph or below and don't use heating or AC!

So the day trip I do to Hull from the Norfolk/Suffolk border once or twice a year would be extended by 13 or so hours charging, IF (and it's a big IF) I could find somewhere to charge it. Even twice monthly 250 mile round trips to Bedfordshire would be challenging.

In time Tesla's supercharger network will no doubt reach eastern England, and that would make all the difference, but even so dictates a route via these stations. (They say these will always be free for their customers).

I think the future is very exciting and I have high hopes for the 4th Gen Prius, but hoping they don't ruin it by going backwards like they did with the Yaris.

I wish you well with yours, and would be pleased to carry on reading about your experience on this group if you are happy to do so.

Firstly I'd be happy to but I am also concerned the mods on here might quickly tire of me not discussing anything Toyota related - and I guess that's understandable, though it is sort of hybrid related as it's moving forward from the PHEV. Time will tell. I do still have a lot of Prius related knowledge which will slowly erode over time :)

The Tesla Supercharger network is expanding rapidly and does have a couple in Yorkshire, though admittedly none near Hull. A detour over to Barnsley (of all places!?! lol) or Leeds SuperCharger doesn't look far on the map, but the eastern section of the M62 is boredom city and a long drive. There is a new Chademo charger due in Hull near the Humber Bridge any time now and I believe the S is Chademo compatible now (or can be). Whilst not as quick as a SC it will still pump you up for free in about an hour. But it is just one charger and leaves you at the mercy of it's reliability. It's still too early for your sort of regular use. Once or twice a year it would be a fun adventure, but I'm sure the novelty would quickly wear one cold winters evening when the charger was broken.

Now if they had a SuperCharger at Grantham Services?

[PeteB]

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely. Sat in the office or McDonalds or wherever and know you're heading out to the car? Just switch on the a/c from your phone, clear up, pay, have a wee and when you get to your car it's nice and cool - that's the future :)

With respect GC, remote a/c is also in the past. My 2009 Gen 3 Solar has it!

only short range remote activation from the key fob. You can't use an app on your phone to switch it on from further away (at least, not in the UK).

And if you want the fan to work, you have to press a button before you leave the car.

[Dapple]

Just for the record, the gen 3 Solar Prius has a 3rd button on the remote.

This does starts the a/c compressor and cools down the cabin, using the energy in the HV Battery.

Now the solar panel bit is only a bit of a parlour trick, running the fan to circulate air through the cab whilst it's parked. To be honest it's not really worth bothering with. The bonus of the Solar though is the electric glass sunroof which is great.

But the remote a/c button is marvellous. You can only start it from about 100m away in my experience, and you can only run it for 5 minutes or so depending on how much HV charge you have. BUT it works very very well, and is why I really want this in my next car, which is why the Leaf is a serious contender for me!

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely. Sat in the office or McDonalds or wherever and know you're heading out to the car? Just switch on the a/c from your phone, clear up, pay, have a wee and when you get to your car it's nice and cool - that's the future :)

With respect GC, remote a/c is also in the past. My 2009 Gen 3 Solar has it!

only short range remote activation from the key fob. You can't use an app on your phone to switch it on from further away (at least, not in the UK).

And if you want the fan to work, you have to press a button before you leave the car.

The PiP has the AC button in the remote also. I thought all Gen3 Prii do?

On the PiP it'll let you do 2 cycles of 10 min from the HV Battery. After this you need to get in the car and enter READY mode and off again before it'll let you do any more from memory.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Does it do heating? ;)

[PeteB]

Finally, it's great to switch your a/c on remotely. Sat in the office or McDonalds or wherever and know you're heading out to the car? Just switch on the a/c from your phone, clear up, pay, have a wee and when you get to your car it's nice and cool - that's the future :)

With respect GC, remote a/c is also in the past. My 2009 Gen 3 Solar has it!

only short range remote activation from the key fob. You can't use an app on your phone to switch it on from further away (at least, not in the UK).

And if you want the fan to work, you have to press a button before you leave the car.

The PiP has the AC button in the remote also. I thought all Gen3 Prii do?

On the PiP it'll let you do 2 cycles of 10 min from the HV Battery. After this you need to get in the car and enter READY mode and off again before it'll let you do any more from memory.

no, only the Solar & PiP. Makes sense the PiP might run the AC for longer given the higher Battery capacity.

Absence of electric heating is a sore point with many PiP owners, it would be icing on the cake to be able to warm it up whilst plugged in before setting off.

A key benefit of many EVs and other PHEVs is the ability to remotely (or in some cars on a timer) heat up or cool down whilst plugged in (sometimes to free electricity) so that when you drive off the charge stored in the Battery only has to maintain the desired temperature rather than achieve it which can only help the EV range.

I understand many AA/RAC trucks now carry inverters so that they can give owners of EVs a small boost to at least get them to somewhere slightly less inconvenient if they get caught short.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Heating is the killer of BEVs. It's a waste product on a petrol/diesel engine and we're used to be nice n warm on a cold winters day in our cars. With a BEV that initial start up of heat apparently kills your range and newer heaters have been introduced to try and stop that.

I think that's why they allow you to heat up/cool down whilst plugged in to get the car to temperature before you head off out. Great on a regular commute but not so great on an unplanned journey. Regular commutes are where EVs excell and for many people they'd work out just fine. If you work at different offices or are dragged out at a moments notice heading unknown, then maybe a BEV isn't ideal for you.

It is nice that the hvac system still works when you're plugged in charging up at a fast charger. A boost of range at limited expense to cabin comfort.

If any of you want to play at EV in your hybrid, just run it to empty, fill up with a gallon and a half and enjoy the 'fun'.

[johalareewi]

Regular commutes are where EVs excell and for many people they'd work out just fine.

Yup. Even with the heating on.

If any of you want to play at EV in your hybrid, just run it to empty,..

Seriously, don't run your hybrid to empty.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Regular commutes are where EVs excell and for many people they'd work out just fine.

Yup. Even with the heating on.

If any of you want to play at EV in your hybrid, just run it to empty,..

Seriously, don't run your hybrid to empty.

lol i would hope none of them would take it literally. I was trying to say that an EV is like running on 8 litres of fuel.

[barrycoll]

did the IQ go as well. GC??

if Smart could cram in an EV then why couldn't the IQ, as it is the perfect city car????

but the Leaf will work well as a local car and a CT200 as the long distance cruiser.....

could it soon be Welcome Back, GC????

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Nah we kept the IQ. Got to have at least one petrol car for the longer runs - I just don't think I could be bothered jumping from fast charge to fast charger on the motorway. Maybe for a bit of fun one day but not on our hols etc.

The IQ would have made an ideal EV and Toyota did test the EQ (electric IQ) in a number of markets but just gave up on it. If I recall they were selling it as a city car but with a ridiculous range of about 50 miles. Now that usually equates to ideal circumstances so expect 20/25 in winter! and that was before reducing capacity as the vehicle aged. On the specs they had I think they were right to let that car die. The Mitsubishi i-miev has about 90 miles officially but generally gets about 60 or so. If Toyota had matched that I think they would have had a winner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_iQ#Scion_iQ_EV

Electric car sales do seem to depend on how receptive the manufacturers really are. Ford have sold the grand total of 19 of their £28k Ford Focus EV over 2 years. Yet VW can't make the £28k e-Golf fast enough and it's the best selling car in Norway, let alone best selling EV. Toyota could have had a finger in all pies, hybrid, EV and FCV. They have enormous experience in all three.

Mrs Cabbie was looking at a Zoe as the PCP is the same as her petrol bill but she just wanted me to be the guinea pig first lol.

Will I go back to a Prius or hybrid? Probably not, purely because driving an EV is much nicer - if the range suits. If I get a job where I have to commute further, then I'd trade this Leaf in for the new one due out next year with 150 mile range. For now this ol' girl will do and £2 a charge or free on a fast charger is saving me noticeable money already.

It's true what they say though, you do drive more often when it costs you nothing. I just don't think I can ever pour £50 into a car and just burn it away into the air.

An EV suits me and my situation. I'm sure those who regularly drive to the south of france or tow a caravan can find something suitable for them. :)

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Ford have sold the grand total of 19 of their £28k Ford Focus EV over 2 years.

Not helped by the fact no-one knows it exists and they'll only supply it to 1 dealer in the country (when I last checked).

[johalareewi]

lol i would hope none of them would take it literally. I was trying to say that an EV is like running on 8 litres of fuel.

You mean like driving around with the last pip flashing on the fuel gauge ;)

Although with the leaf (and other plug ins) you have added bonus of being able to charge up from a handy mains socket if you run out.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

lol, yes like that :)

Ideally an Ampera would be nice for me, but they're no longer being sold and all models sold this year were 2012 manufactured!?!

A PIP second hand probably would have been worth a punt but they just don't come up for sale, though probably because they sold so few in the first place.

But for my use a pure electric works - for now :)

[kithmo]

Ford have sold the grand total of 19 of their £28k Ford Focus EV over 2 years.

Not helped by the fact no-one knows it exists and they'll only supply it to 1 dealer in the country (when I last checked).

What's happened to the Mondeo EV, is that one out yet ?