Goodbye Prius, Hello Leaf

[dcweather]

I really would like an all electric car and looked at the Leaf and Zoe, both which I thought were great cars. But on thinking ahead what would happen if they became really popular. Imagine how many charging points you would need to satisfy thousands and thousands of these cars taking half an hour each to charge. I can't see it working on a mass market. Also the Government has now got rid of any tax advantage after 1 year in the budget. After a one off payment which is high for big luxury and high emitting cars these rich people get to pay the same as the rest of us. Some incentive!

Dave

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Also the Government has now got rid of any tax advantage after 1 year in the budget. After a one off payment which is high for big luxury and high emitting cars these rich people get to pay the same as the rest of us. Some incentive!

Dave

Not for another 20 months, and even then it won't affect most EVs.

[Heidfirst]

"government has now got rid of any tax advantage after 1 year in the budget. After a one off payment which is high for big luxury and high emitting cars these rich people get to pay the same as the rest of us. Some incentive!"

If their cars list over £40,000 they will also be paying an extra £310 for years 2-6 ...... £1550

[MEP's Yaris GS]

"government has now got rid of any tax advantage after 1 year in the budget. After a one off payment which is high for big luxury and high emitting cars these rich people get to pay the same as the rest of us. Some incentive!"

If their cars list over £40,000 they will also be paying an extra £310 for years 2-6 ...... £1550

I repeat again, not yet it hasn't, not for another 20 months (01/04/2017).

[Heidfirst]

I did use the future tense ... :P

[dcweather]

I would never let the truth get in the way of bashing Tory environmental and wildlife policies ;-)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I really would like an all electric car and looked at the Leaf and Zoe, both which I thought were great cars. But on thinking ahead what would happen if they became really popular. Imagine how many charging points you would need to satisfy thousands and thousands of these cars taking half an hour each to charge.

And in 1910 they probably said the same about petrol cars. I mean, you'd need a petrol station or five in every town, filling up with billions upon billions of litres of prehistoric and finite fuel. That could never happen, imagine the infrastructure required.

And electric cars are mainly only for local trips at the moment with 100 mile ranges. Once it gets to 200 miles (2017 Nissan Leaf), they'd barely need to visit a public charge point unless petrol cars which HAVE to fill up at a petrol station. It's just getting your head round it. There are always hundreds of cars filling up at any one time in every town as that's the only place they can get their fuel. With an EV you fill up at home every night for pennies, but should you be likely to exceed the 200 miles range then you have a need to fill up publically. Few cars need to travel those distances. A 200 mile range also falls nicely into the sort of distance you can manage before you need a toilet break.

One benefit of a petrol car is it can be filled in 5 minutes, assuming you don't include the actual time driving out of your way there and back out. The down side is it costs £45-£90 a time. A 200 mile EV would cost £4-£5 but would take about 30 minutes. Just look at the speed of the Tesla superchargers. They get it.

Horses for courses. You want the perceived speed and long distance flexibility of petrol/diesel, then fine, but you will pay a couple thousand of £'s a year to travel 15,000 miles a year. If your trips are within 70-80 miles between charging or you don't mind a small inconvenience of waiting to fast charge on the few occassions you need it, and the 20 seconds it takes every evening to connect your car. It also costs you a could hundred £ a year for 15,000 miles a year.

And that's before we get onto the subject of where the oil we use comes from. The UK is 60% self sufficient in oil. The remaining oil comes from some nice countries like Norway, but much comes from crappo countries that hate our way of life.

There's room for everyone.

[dcweather]

Crikey! And I am one who has just bought a hybrid and am massively in favour of an electric car! What would you have said in reply to a petrol head!! Anyway it was what is called an extrapolated thought. It wouldn't affect me as I would probably use it as you do. But others have said range anxiety is a massive reason for not going electric and others have said they often find charging points out of order and slow. I was thinking that if successful there would need to be a massive number of charge points if 30 minutes a charge. Perhaps you are right and people won't use them for journeys more than 50 miles each way or hope their friends can get a charge out in the road to them, I don't know. Nothing wrong in thinking of potential pitfalls, especially if it helps a concept you believe in.

Dave

[cbcdesign]

First night I got my latest new car back in May I drove 250 miles just enjoying driving the car. That's just not possible in an EV. I looked at them as a possibility but just couldn't live with the range limit.

Interesting choice though GC.

I hope you are pleased with your new wheels as I am with mine.

[timberwolf]

As well as range anxiety and broken public charge points, something one of my colleagues experienced doing a 40 mile morning commute that apparently used 60 miles of their range, he said it was interesting learning experience, but I note he hasn't tried the journey again yet.

There is also a threat of blackouts http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33527967

and all charging stations including the home units have a govt controlled remote off switch.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

and all charging stations including the home units have a govt controlled remote off switch.

Depends whos installed it. I know for a fact my home station hasn't.

[johalareewi]

and all charging stations including the home units have a govt controlled remote off switch.

Linky?

I know mine has an O2 sim card to report usage and I guess that could be used in the other direction to remote control the unit but some tin foil would sort that out.

[RobMagpie]

Mine certainly hasn't either as it was one of the first to be installed. It's just a dedicated 3 pin socket.

[Dapple]

and all charging stations including the home units have a govt controlled remote off switch.

Linky?

I know mine has an O2 sim card to report usage and I guess that could be used in the other direction to remote control the unit but some tin foil would sort that out.

Should we put the tin foil over our heads?

Will the government control still work when I use mine in area 51 (Cleckheaton)?

[timberwolf]

No links I'm afraid but then there wouldn't be. When Wikileaks published US gov "secrets" that a few had suspected and where laughed at for being paranoid or worse, funny how they turned out to be correct.

[Bibsy]

Well, inspired by this thread I've spent some days now researching every angle. There's no getting away from it - I can't make the sums work for me at all, unless I pick a Renault Zoe. In that instance I can save an estimated £140 a month.

For that £140 per month I have the delights of charging every few tens of miles, with all the possible drawbacks, the pain of sorting out longer holiday journeys with hire cars or so forth, and of course, the experience-I-swore-to-myself-I'd-never-repeat with Renault dealers and product. I don;t think even that saving is enough to sway me away from where I am in a car I enjoy very much.

A Leaf would be pretty much the same monthly cost as my current car, and any other EV is more expensive yet of course.

[PeteB]

...the pain of sorting out longer holiday journeys with hire cars or so forth...

and to me that's another major pain - it's bad enough when I have hire or borrow an 'ordinary' car when on holiday or the Prius is in for service (at least my excellent dealer has lent me a Hybrid the last few times).

If I'd got used to an all electric car even a Hybrid loan/hire car would seem a backward step - a regular petrol/diesel (especially if manual - ugh!) would be a nightmare.

[Cyker]

Well at the rate Tesla are pushing Battery research I'm hoping they will make a breakthrough within the next decade or so that will get the energy density of electrical storage at least in the same order of magnitude as petrol and diesel!

[eygo]

I know they're not for everyone (esp if you're a motorway rep), but if you haven't driven a Leaf you really should. At least give one a go, you might not like it, but if you've driven a Prius you probably will. They're so smooth. Seriously they make a Prius sound like a tractor by comparison.

The one thing I will say though is that Nissan dealers just don't seem as good as Toyotas. Toyota really have done a cracking job on dealer quality control, whereas Nissan are just well, influenced by Renault!?! I wish my Toyota dealer could do my servicing as I trust them.

This is my one concern.

nissan dealers are the worst i have used ,we had a 14 plate aygo bought new march 14 and sold it in december 14 (due to baby getting bigger) and bought a nissan micra from holdcroft nissan northwich ,they are the most appauling dealer i have used to the point that after 6 weeks and not having pre purchase problems sorted i rejected the car and bought a honda instead,just dont expect too much from nissan . i hope your car isnt made in india like the micra as the quality of parts is shocking

[Funkyboy]

I know they're not for everyone (esp if you're a motorway rep), but if you haven't driven a Leaf you really should. At least give one a go, you might not like it, but if you've driven a Prius you probably will. They're so smooth. Seriously they make a Prius sound like a tractor by comparison.

The one thing I will say though is that Nissan dealers just don't seem as good as Toyotas. Toyota really have done a cracking job on dealer quality control, whereas Nissan are just well, influenced by Renault!?! I wish my Toyota dealer could do my servicing as I trust them.

This is my one concern.

Is there anything to service on these? Only brakes and tyres isn't there

[eygo]

the leaf will probably have to have a health check for the electrics and then they will bulk out the check as with a petrol car all the checks that are done on an mot,seat belts ,horn ,lights etc

you get the idea anything to try and justify a high charge.

[Funkyboy]

the leaf will probably have to have a health check for the electrics and then they will bulk out the check as with a petrol car all the checks that are done on an mot,seat belts ,horn ,lights etc

you get the idea anything to try and justify a high charge.

Interestingly I was talking to a Tesla dealer who said their cars come with a 8 year warranty and you don't need to get it serviced. They do offer a yearly service which includes swapping the wheels and a full wheel alignment for £500!, but the warranty is not dependent on you doing this. Electric cars have no oils or coolants and very few moving parts. Thrers really nothing to service. Tesla is going to change the world of motoring and the way people buy cars

[valmiki]

Interestingly I was talking to a Tesla dealer who said their cars come with a 8 year warranty and you don't need to get it serviced. They do offer a yearly service which includes swapping the wheels and a full wheel alignment for £500!, but the warranty is not dependent on you doing this. Electric cars have no oils or coolants and very few moving parts. Thrers really nothing to service. Tesla is going to change the world of motoring and the way people buy cars

Wow! how refreshing

[PeteB]

Interestingly I was talking to a Tesla dealer who said their cars come with a 8 year warranty and you don't need to get it serviced. They do offer a yearly service which includes swapping the wheels and a full wheel alignment for £500!, but the warranty is not dependent on you doing this. Electric cars have no oils or coolants and very few moving parts. Thrers really nothing to service. Tesla is going to change the world of motoring and the way people buy cars

Wow! how refreshing

When I worked out the cost of a Model S last year to my preferred spec on their web it it quoted the following for a service plan which I thought rather excessive (and still seems to be current):

"4-YEAR PLAN Tesla Service for four years Up to 50,000 miles £1,800 prepaid"

Details here: http://my.teslamotors.com/en_GB/service

[Funkyboy]

Yes you can take out a service plan but the warranty is not dependent on you doing this. As a tesla only has 70 moving parts there's not much to service. The car is permanently connected to the internet any issues and the engineers log into the car remotely and adjust the software they do this from their desks no need to take the car to a dealership. Any software updates are automatically sent to all their cars. The car learns your routes so if there's a certain road you travel on that has potholes the car knows it is approaching them and adjusts it ride height to smooth them out. Tesla is releasing a SUV next then a 3 series size saloon that is supposed to sell for low 20k ish.