Engine Oil

[the fox]

Never mentioned fuel but the Morrissons near me must be selling some good gear queing for fuel morning till night.

The problem is with expensive oil is the customer pays for all the adverts all the sponsers etc. etc. not much left for the maunfacturer to produce super duper oil. A non branded spec fully synthetic oil spec for spec is just as good as a very expensive branded...oil... fully synthetic oil is overspeced for nearly 100% of Toyota's on british roads so sticking a non branded synthetic oil in your vehicle for the price of a branded semi if oil for nothing and like you stated Lindop are only now changing to a fully synthetic oil becasue you can't get semi at the right price.... it's all down to price.... why pay a Toyota dealer to put semi syntheic in your vehicle,,, maybe the customer is getting wise and Lindop and others are having to follow the hype about oils.. it's not all bad news well done Lindop....

[Parts-King]

It's not down to price for us, it is two fold. 1) Bulk oil deals are now moving away from semi to fully synthetic and 2) The higher spec (whilst not a Toyota requirement) is being demanded by more people, supply and demand is so key these days

[FROSTYBALLS]

Halfords currently have three of their own brand oils £12 for 4 litres (offer ends 2nd August) - http://www.halfords.com/motoring-travel/engine-oils-fluids/engine-oil?brand=Halfords&size=4+litres&initMin=0&initMax=75&pgSize=10

[TomdeGuerre]

I followed that link to Halfords and it came up with 5W 30 fully synthetic for my car but Toyota recommends only 0W 20 in fact the handbook says if you put 5W 30 in it you should change it at the first opportunity to 0W 20. Load of boll..x.

when I bought my car I got a good deal on three year servicng plan. my car was in a few weeks ago and I asked for 5W 30 because that's what I prefer. I got a lecture and was told they only had 0W 20 in the workshops which was a lle because there's numerous other Toyotas still use 5W 30. I checked the oil today and it's way over the full mark, so is the brake fluid which was changed.

to a degree I say that the fox is right but the car manufacturers have the customers who are still in warranty too scared to do anything but blindly follow their advice. .

[the fox]

Bargain, but will Blinkered Toyota owners buy it ????

[philip42h]

Those owners sufficiently blinkered to look only at the cost of a disposable item may buy it. Those with eyes sufficiently wide open to check the specification probably won't.

The 5w-30 oils Halfords have on offer at £12 for 4L labelled GM and Ford are probably the same oils in different packaging and meet the ACEA A3 and B3 specifications. As such they'd be just fine for use in my wife's Volvo and any other vehicles that requires such oils.

For my RAV, Toyota specify an ACEA C2 oil so for me the stuff on offer just won't do. If I ask Halfords for oil suitable for my car they come up with an own brand (labelled Peugeot/Citroen) and Mobil 1 at about £40 for 5L. Both of which would be just fine but I suspect that I could find a better price elsewhere ...

[the fox]

The problem is if you get your vehicle serviced by Toyota they ave only been using semi synthetic which they find OK, if a Toyota dealer says he stocks different blends/spec etc. I suspect he will be fibbing, any fully synthetic oil will be perfect for any Toyota unless you are entering 24 hrs at Le mans. So much rubbish is talked about low ash etc. you need to think about Diesel particles IN THE DIESEL, and when the EGR cuts in, the exhaust gases are sent back into the inlet side thus reducing the burning and making the engine produce more DP's soot what ever the spec of oil it will not effect the DPF unless it's burning gallons of the stuff.

[philip42h]

I can speak for all Toyota dealers - the local Mr T who services my cars has been using Mobile 1 fully synthetic for the past few years.

I don't claim any understanding, let alone detailed understanding, of how a modern diesel engine works but I can follow the recommendations of the manufacturer - each to his/her own ... :)

[bluerav4]

I personally always follow what the recommendations are and at the same time I do come on forums to ask for advice.

To be honest the way the modern engines are its not best to skimp on pennies that's my opinion anyway

[the fox]

I can speak for all Toyota dealers - the local Mr T who services my cars has been using Mobile 1 fully synthetic for the past few years.

I don't claim any understanding, let alone detailed understanding, of how a modern diesel engine works but I can follow the recommendations of the manufacturer - each to his/her own ... :)

I do understand I have been servicing cars/bikes since early 70's when you next see a large Moibil1 sign at a racetrack remember to think you have paid towards it, and all sponsership Mobil spends, Any branded fully synthetic oil is 100% perfect for your Toyota, maybe you have found the only Toyota dealer who uses Mobil1 it's the first one I have heard about, the chap from Lindop Toyota a avid poster on this site admitted they are now going towards fully synthetic because of owners demands, sure it won't be Mobil1.....

[Parts-King]

Not quite as simplistic as that.

The Toyota spec for most cars is semi synthetic, however, due to customer demand (for all makes, not just Toyota) customers want more choice and are looking for fully synthetic options. The bulk oil companies are now looking to supply fully synthetic oils and don't want to supply semi in bulk. It makes sense not to have to supply into two tanks. Semi will still be supplied in pack, but not bulk (for us anyway)

[philip42h]

I nearly promised myself that I wouldn't post again on this thread but something Kingo said struck a chord and I need to amend my position slightly ... :)

The oil used by my local dealer came in packs - so I've no idea what they would normally use in bulk which could, of course, be anything. And, on at least one occasion, they left me with an extra litre for top-up purposes - which, of course, I would have been charged for but that's how I know which oil they used. I just checked and I'd misremembered - it's Mobil alright, but not Mobil 1 (as the commonly found most suitable oil for my car on a web search), but Mobil Super 3000 Formula P. It's clearly labelled ACEA C2 as specified by Toyota for my RAV so I'm still happy. But unlike Mobil 1 it doesn't claim to be fully synthetic (or even 'synthetic' at all) so I suspect that it is a semi-synthetic oil after all.

And with that, I really will shut-up ... :!Removed!:

[Devon Aygo]

I can speak for all Toyota dealers - the local Mr T who services my cars has been using Mobile 1 fully synthetic for the past few years.

I don't claim any understanding, let alone detailed understanding, of how a modern diesel engine works but I can follow the recommendations of the manufacturer - each to his/her own ... :)

I do understand I have been servicing cars/bikes since early 70's when you next see a large Moibil1 sign at a racetrack remember to think you have paid towards it, and all sponsership Mobil spends, Any branded fully synthetic oil is 100% perfect for your Toyota, maybe you have found the only Toyota dealer who uses Mobil1 it's the first one I have heard about, the chap from Lindop Toyota a avid poster on this site admitted they are now going towards fully synthetic because of owners demands, sure it won't be Mobil1.....

Your advice is poor, ill advised and potentially costly to say the least!

Toyota specify a low ash oil on car fitted with a DPF for a reason, to prolong the life a a costly component on the car, using any synthetic oil as you state of the wrong type will increase the load on the DPF and cause damage may be not immediately but certainly long term and will most certainly lead to a warranty claim rejection if the the wrong oil has been used. Unless you can provide genuine irrefutable evidence for your answers to a simple question please stop stating opinion as fact.

Toyota unlike most manufacturers do not insist on a certain grade or brand of oil, all they require is that the oil used meets the minimum specifications that they lay down e.g C2 specification oil on some DPF equipped cars, true they do offer a preferred option but so long as the oil used meets the minimum requirements listed then there can be no issues from Toyota. To say any oil even those without C2 specifications will be fine is just plain ignorant and wrong! Perhaps you would like to offer warranty or financial support to people who incorrectly use your opinion when purchasing oil for the car?

Also as someone working at a dealer myself to tar every dealer with the same brush is also wrong, we as dealers are allowed the same conditions as an individual customer, so long as the oils used meets Toyota minimum requirements for any model we are free to use whatever oils we wish. At my dealer ship we currently use:

0w20 for later Hybrids & Optimal drive petrol engines

5w30 C2 for post year 2000 diesels with or without DPF & petrol models not using 0w20

5w30 C3 for new BMW/PSA engined Diesels

10w40 for pre 2000 model cars

5w40 Fully synthetic for celica & Supra Turbos also Lexus IS-F & RC-f

5w50 Fully synthetic for Lexus LFA

[TomdeGuerre]

It's not just as simple as low ash oil for DPF's is it? There's an awful lot of Toyota diesels burning oil as witnessed on here by many posts. Using up to a litre of oil per 600 miles is deemed acceptable by Toyota; I know other manufacturers make similar claims but they would say that, wouldn't they?

So if you have a DPF failure and try to claim off Toyota then you're up against it. If you're using a litre of oil about every 600 miles then you're pouring in at least 15 litres of oil - maybe more - between services. That's three times more than an oil change. Even if you get your car serviced at a Toyota garage how are you going to prove you used only low ash oil to top up? Receipts? Don't make me laugh. Even then your claim would go to Toyota and be subject to their "expert" analysis but I never knew two experts to agree about anything.

[bluerav4]

I think I would agree with you. We had a corolla vvti from new and on the 30K service we were told that engine oil was low. So we kept an eye on it and at 32K it was halfway went back it was monitored by Toyota after a 100 miles and we ended up having the engine replaced and trust me it wasn't easy.

We had the same with an Avensis VVTi too. In our case we had them both replaced but I believe some people had problems. Going back to the T180 engine was replaced about 2 years ago and touch wood it's not used any oil at all it's been on the full mark. Engine was replaced at 50K and it's now showing 75K so done around 25K and not used any oil.

I don't think it was every single engine but would be interesting to see how many did have their engines replaced

[the fox]

Thanks Phil'

Just a quickie and I will not post again on oil, the oil most Toyota dealers use is semi...

Oil at Home Bargains spec is as follows

Viscol british made

5w-30 fully synthetic Low SAPS Low ASH

petrol or diesel

meets or exceds the following

APISM/CF ACEAC3 ACEA3/B4 MB229'51 VW502,00/505,00 VW505,01 BMWLL04 GMDEX052 FORM M2C917-A

perfect for any Toyota on the planet, I know a lot of you likie to use 0w but I think it got to be something like -30C to be of any difference to the staring or lubrication action,,,my last words are if you want to spend loads of cash for nothing carry on, you will probably find home bargains are running out fast, I have bought most of it HA

[firemac]

I think I would agree with you. We had a corolla vvti from new and on the 30K service we were told that engine oil was low. So we kept an eye on it and at 32K it was halfway went back it was monitored by Toyota after a 100 miles and we ended up having the engine replaced and trust me it wasn't easy.

We had the same with an Avensis VVTi too. In our case we had them both replaced but I believe some people had problems. Going back to the T180 engine was replaced about 2 years ago and touch wood it's not used any oil at all it's been on the full mark. Engine was replaced at 50K and it's now showing 75K so done around 25K and not used any oil.

I don't think it was every single engine but would be interesting to see how many did have their engines replaced

The matter of oil consumption is always a bit fraught and not just on Toyotas. We have owned 10 (I think!) Toyotas during the past 14 years - Aygo, RAV 4.2 & 4.3, Land Cruiser 120 & 150 - and oil consumption has been zero between services on all but our 12-reg RAV D-CAT automatic, which used about a litre between 10K services.

We've not done anything particularly clever with them other than using top quality fuel and oils and having them serviced religiously on time by Mr.T. Driving conditions have varied from a RAV 4.2 auto that was used almost exclusively on short, urban shopping/school runs through several others used for long-distance commuting (200 mile daily round trips).

There will be some effect where the car has been purchased used because, in that case, FSH or not, you have little idea of how the previous owner(s) has treated it. With a new car, it's different because you can ensure proper maintenance and care.

I guess it's partially down to good maintenance and a large slice of luck.

[bluerav4]

I think good maintenance plays a big part in all this.

The T180 was always services by Toyota but to be honest I don't think it's worth letting them do it anymore.

We still buy the Toyota parts for service and it was the engine oil I wasn't sure if hence why I asked the question originally. I'm using an independent Garage now and the oil you recommended (firemac) the garage said was good quality and they usually use Mobil oils.

[the fox]

 

I think good maintenance plays a big part in all this.

The T180 was always services by Toyota but to be honest I don't think it's worth letting them do it anymore.

We still buy the Toyota parts for service and it was the engine oil I wasn't sure if hence why I asked the question originally. I'm using an independent Garage now and the oil you recommended (firemac) the garage said was good quality and they usually use Mobil oils.

 

I was definately not going to post again about oil but does this mean you have realised most Toyota dealers are using naff oil. buy some from home bargains before it all goes it's LOW SAP/ASH and do it yourself plenty of tips on this site....

[Parts-King]

Dealers are using the oil that Toyota specify or higher, not naff oil at all

[bluerav4]

To be honest I can't do it myself don't have the knowledge or tools to carry out an oil change. I'd rather let a garage do it of course not Toyota anymore. My partner has no knowledge either.

I've never bought anything from home bargains ever and I wouldn't want to skimp on oil. i appreciate what your saying with regards to cost I think I'm happy to stay with Mobil 1 for now. The garage use it also and it has been recommended by most independent garages

[the fox]

That's the problem bluerav most people don't have the knowledge

Mod edit - content removed as off topic

[firemac]

That's the problem bluerav most people don't have the knowledge

Mod edit - content removed as off topic

Nice to see that you are trying to re-open a locked thread by going through the back door on this one.

You are getting tedious. Why don't you take your obviously well-thought out and no doubt immaculately documented complaints to Toyota GB or, better yet, write to Mr. Toyoda himself in Japan!

Personally I've had enough of your drivel. Get a life, Fella.

[bluerav4]

I think I have to agree with you on this firemac. Either you work for home bargains or have something against Toyota. All car dealers can have issues relating to problems that occur after a car is sold. Toyota do provide. A good service and if anything is needed under warranty I've never had a problem.i will continue buying Toyota cars and I can definitely tell you I will never buy engine oil from home bargains.

If you choose to do so that's your prerogative.

And truthfully it's getting a bit boring now and annoying and also why are you even a member of the forum. Your profile photo shows a Rav 4 so why are you driving a Toyota branded vehicle.

I'm assuming you have a wife/partner God how do they put up with you

[STAN LAWMAN]

new member never posted beofre read the forum millions of times but I think some comments made above need addressing I first met Brian AKA the fox when I needed a independent inspection of my RAV4 2.2 T4 basically I had been ripped off by a Toyota dealer and needed proof I have remained a very close friend ever since and comments about his home life wife etc is not on if you read his postings his wife was driven off the road by her RAV4 when her steering locked up she hates Toyota more than him.

Some other comments about not using home/bargains for anyhting is just snobbish you tell HIM to get a life he tried to help members save cash and he gets bullied I believe like him some members on this forum profit frim it they either work for toyota or a Toyota dealer and cant cope with the brand being slagged off Brian gives honest advice and yes he can go on a bit but hes earned the right.

I spoke to Brian this morning who informed me he had been suspended but he said he won tpont again too many members in each others pockets the forum just lost a great amount of knowledge.

And just so you know my RAV4 2.2 T4 under warranty needed a new engine new clutch flywheel etc new exhaust valve thing new exhuast filter and a complete set of front brakes and I mean a complete setsome item i believe the dealer just changed to make money not sure why Brian was suspended but it seems someone did not like his comments but memebers who have an interest in Toyota those who earn a living from Toyota should not make comments I thought thats what a forum was for ? Its for impartial comments not to make money for dealers please fell free to remove my postings or move ot so memebers wont see it. Stan newmer disgusted