Vibrations Over 60mph Sr180

[TomdeGuerre]

4 hours ago, john_y said:

Hi, 

Wednesday update, and what a nightmare day.

Conversations centred around - Does/ Does not the rack have bushes in the mountings - all the research up till yesterday indicated yes.

Today's findings, NO, 2 different sources, 1/ mechanic power steering reconditioning service, 2 / ACS Power Steering - No Bushes in mk1's approx. 2006-2009.

End of that wild goose chase _ I guess it's all part of the diagnosis said the Doctor..

Options left are, recondition the rack cost of £65 + removing and reinstalling labour costs, 2/ change both wishbones including bushing, ball joints £120, 3/ check again for uneven tyre wear in new front  tyres.

Think my mechanic is a bit miffed with me.

So that’s the latest John, with this car it seems as one door opens another one firmly closes.So as far as this part of your post goes:

Recondition the steering rack:

I’d recondition the rack, you’ve gone this far, might as well eliminate it from the equation.

Change wishbones?

That’s your call, I can’t say anything without having seen them. Does the mechanic actually recommend this?

Check for uneven tyre wear on the front:

I thought this had all been checked out very carefully. Has anyone checked these tyres for being out of round in any way? Like jacking it up and placing some kind of indicator  that’s wide enough to go at least a third of the way across the tread (I typically use a jack stand) then spin the wheel and check for deviations. Repeat for inner and outer sidewalls. Seriously, this should all have been eliminated.
 

[TomdeGuerre]

4 hours ago, john_y said:

Any way, doing some research and think I am going to get the rack reconditioned as it seems Toyota have recalled other models, "Toyota GB said: ‘On certain Avensis, Corolla and Prius models (July 2001 to April 2009) there is a possibility of an issue with a component in the steering system, prompting a  knocking or rattling and possibly a reduction in steering response.
Components called ‘splines’ – a form of tubular locking device - which ‘connect the extension shaft to the steering gearbox may deform if the steering wheel is frequently and forcefully while  driving at slow speeds."

In plain English I interpret this as if your travelling slowly say 10 mph and turn hard into a junction the splines are dis-stressed and 'soft metal' wears over time.

Certainly a 2005 corolla/ verso t180 7 seater, and 2009 Avensis t180  were fitted with the 'heavy' 2.2 d4d diesel engine and covered by this recall.

Also, i read on Toyota Blog link:

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/recall-announced-for-toyota-avensis-toyota-corolla-and-toyota-prius

Perhaps Toyota and/ or Parts-King would like to comment why the Auris and rav4 with 2.2 d4d t/dr 180 engines have not been recalled?? 

There’s too many issues mixed up here. I thought there was a recall to do with play in the steering yoke (shaft) which connects the steering wheel to the rack, I’m not familiar with any recall about the driveshafts. In any case you’re bringing in different issues here about some owners anecdotal experience with a Toyota dealer and it’s not going to help resolve your case any. 

I read what’s said about the driveshaft and, again, I would have expected your mechanics to have very carefully examined the driveshafts for any signs of play, eccentricity or misalignment. If this hasn’t been done then someone is wasting your time mon ami. 
 

[john_y]

Tom , I eBay messaged the eBay link for the rack in Latvia, they replied as per the attached screen print file which expands when you click on it (hopefully).

I agree there are many issues and it's difficult to get to the solution. I am just trying to sort the puzzle out with the aid of you guys, my mechanic and it's so confusing but just doing my best!

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

5 hours ago, john_y said:

Perhaps Toyota and/ or Parts-King would like to comment why the Auris and rav4 with 2.2 d4d t/dr 180 engines have not been recalled?

The way the recall system works is that owners who have an issue report the issue to Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA - formerly VOSA). If there are sufficient reports of an issue, DVSA in conjunction with the manufacturer investigate, and if the issue is thought to be a safety issue, a formal recall will be announced. The DVSA and the manufacturer identify the range of vehicles by VIN that may be affected. Owner names and  addresses of vehicles that may be affected are supplied by DVLA, and the manufacturer writes out to those owners.

The investigation would have looked at which models were affected, and, for the UK, the Corolla, Avensis and Prius were.

Presumably neither the Auris nor Rav4 had the suspected parts.

Toyota Owners Club have no association with Toyota. Toyota may read posts on the Club, much in the same way any member of the public can. However, Toyota certainly won't respond either directly or indirectly to posts on Toyota Owners Club. 

[john_y]

11 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The way the recall system works is that owners who have an issue report the issue to Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA - formerly VOSA). If there are sufficient reports of an issue, DVSA in conjunction with the manufacturer investigate, and if the issue is thought to be a safety issue, a formal recall will be announced. The DVSA and the manufacturer identify the range of vehicles by VIN that may be affected. Owner names and  addresses of vehicles that may be affected are supplied by DVLA, and the manufacturer writes out to those owners.

The investigation would have looked at which models were affected, and, for the UK, the Corolla, Avensis and Prius were.

Presumably neither the Auris nor Rav4 had the suspected parts.

Toyota Owners Club have no association with Toyota. Toyota may read posts on the Club, much in the same way any member of the public can. However, Toyota certainly won't respond either directly or indirectly to posts on Toyota Owners Club. 

Parts_King has commented on this topic which I thanked him for - Post edited.

 

If not a recall perhaps an extended warranty on the whole steering rack as they did on the 'engine' -  AD Engine Out of Warranty Guidelines (0730J),

[FROSTYBALLS]

Yes Parts-King does post on the forum, but that is as an individual and not officially as Toyota.

My comment was as regards Toyota.

As regards the AD series issues, that was a goodwill arrangement rather than a warranty extension. Presumably as the Auris wasn't included in the steering column recall, the issue isn't the same.

[john_y]

3 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Yes Parts-King does post on the forum, but that is as an individual and not officially as Toyota.

My comment was as regards Toyota.

As regards the AD series issues, that was a goodwill arrangement rather than a warranty extension. Presumably as the Auris wasn't included in the steering column recall, the issue isn't the same.

Hi,

Firstly, I mentioned I had edited the original post.

I don't think it too unfair an expectation of Toyota to design a product fit for purpose. If it didn't design or thoroughly test an 'engine' then they should make ammends.

I think the term Toyota used was Warranty Bulletin.

If my experience of life is anything to go by I wouldn't presume anything. The Rav4 and the Auris were made during the same period probably using parts procured from the same supplier.

I think that Toyota power steering can be over assisted without wishing to stereotype their target market customer requirements. I am going to make a report to Toyota Customer Relations based upon an independent inspection of the steering rack.

 

[Heidfirst]

I think that you will find that the potential issue with the Avensis, Corolla & Prius had nothing to do with the rack itself - it's to do with the shaft transmitting the steering wheel turn to the box that then transmits that to the steering rack. Iirc it in itself is not engine related - it also covers vehicles fitted with other than the 2.2 D4D.

Presumably the Auris & RAV4 used different parts.

[john_y]

35 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

I think that you will find that the potential issue with the Avensis, Corolla & Prius had nothing to do with the rack itself - it's to do with the shaft transmitting the steering wheel turn to the box that then transmits that to the steering rack. Iirc it in itself is not engine related - it also covers vehicles fitted with other than the 2.2 D4D.

Presumably the Auris & RAV4 used different parts.

When I mentioned the Warranty bulletin I was not referring to my rack - although I would encourage Toyota to include a similar warranty extension.

Although potentially RAV4 and Auris use different parts because they probably come from the same supplier it's likely the metal in terms of it's tensile strength would be the same. Thus the electrically assisted power steering could have the potential to overwhelm the low tensile metal

I would point out my car has a full Toyota service history till 74294 miles, service at 86,586 miles and is reading just above 94,000 miles now. That's 6 services at Toyota, one by an independent. Regarding Toyota exclusively servicing my car, The Block Exemption Regulations exempt categories of agreements that comply with their provisions from the EU ban on restrictive business practices (Article 101(1) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). The old rules for the car sector (Regulation 1400/2002) were adopted in 2002 and expire on 31 May. Before adopting the new rules the Commission conducted an extensive and lengthy consultation process.

In the past few years, the Commission has brought four cases against DaimlerChrysler, Fiat, Toyota and GM to ensure that they allow independent garages adequate access to repair information (see IP/07/1332).

Lastly, I have indicated that I have contacted Toyota Customer Relation to see if a mutually agreeable outcome can be achieved.

Why do I feel like I am being attacked when the steering rack hasn't been inspected yet.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

32 minutes ago, john_y said:

I don't think it too unfair an expectation of Toyota to design a product fit for purpose. If it didn't design or thoroughly test an 'engine' then they should make ammends.

I think the term Toyota used was Warranty Bulletin.

If my experience of life is anything to go by I wouldn't presume anything. The Rav4 and the Auris were made during the same period probably using parts procured from the same supplier.

I think that Toyota power steering can be over assisted without wishing to stereotype their target market customer requirements. I am going to make a report to Toyota Customer Relations based upon an independent inspection of the steering rack.

To put this into context the car is question is 6/7 years old and even if Toyota provided a similar goodwill arrangement to that of the AD series diesel engines, the car would be at the far end of any assistance period, if not beyond it.

Toyota aren't alone in having power assistance which, in some cars, appears over-assisted. From our experience of owning cars from new, Honda power assistance is more over-assisted than Toyota, whereas we've found that Toyota are on a par with Nissan, Mazda and Hyundai.

An independent inspection of the steering rack is just one opinion, which Toyota doesn't need to consider. If Toyota were to consider goodwill in this instance, they would require their own inspection of the steering rack. 

You would do better to approach Toyota to ask whether they will consider any goodwill contribution towards whatever work is required. Goodwill works both ways though, and servicing outside the Toyota dealer network may affect any decision on providing a goodwill contribution, Also bear in mind that a goodwill contribution is just that, and may not be the full cost of repairs. 

[john_y]

14 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

To put this into context the car is question is 6/7 years old and even if Toyota provided a similar goodwill arrangement to that of the AD series diesel engines, the car would be at the far end of any assistance period, if not beyond it.

Toyota aren't alone in having power assistance which, in some cars, appears over-assisted. From our experience of owning cars from new, Honda power assistance is more over-assisted than Toyota, whereas we've found that Toyota are on a par with Nissan, Mazda and Hyundai.

An independent inspection of the steering rack is just one opinion, which Toyota doesn't need to consider. If Toyota were to consider goodwill in this instance, they would require their own inspection of the steering rack. 

You would do better to approach Toyota to ask whether they will consider any goodwill contribution towards whatever work is required. Goodwill works both ways though, and servicing outside the Toyota dealer network may affect any decision on providing a goodwill contribution, Also bear in mind that a goodwill contribution is just that, and may not be the full cost of repairs. 

Please see my comments two posts previous 

[Heidfirst]

4 minutes ago, john_y said:

When I mentioned the Warranty bulletin I was not referring to my rack - although I would encourage Toyota to include a similar warranty extension.

So why mention it? Why would they need a warranty extension on a part (rack) that there is no evidence of faulty design/production? 

Although potentially RAV4 and Auris use different parts because they probably come from the same supplier it's likely the metal in terms of it's tensile strength would be the same.

& yet you said " If my experience of life is anything to go by I wouldn't presume anything." right before making a big presumption - that the parts come from the same supplier, are made of the same material & presumably  are of similar design & machining.

Why do I feel like I am being attacked when the steering rack hasn't been inspected yet.

Because you aren't helping your case by bringing in things that aren't related & when other things that should have already been eliminated may not have been ...

 

 

[john_y]

13 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

32 minutes ago, john_y said:

Because you aren't helping your case by bringing in things that aren't related & when other things that should have already been eliminated may not have been ...

I have been trying for the last 9 months to find out why my car is vibrating from under the engine bay, my mechanic and I  have explored lots of different avenues which haven't progressed the issue and it's likely a steering rack recondition will solve it - let's wait and see!!!!!!

13 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

 

 

[Heidfirst]

Your car is well out of warranty & the bit that you have edited into an earlier post about Block Exemption Regulations has nothing to do with your issue - as I said you are bringing in things that are not relevant.

Hopefully a new rack will resolve things for you but I would not expect Toyota to pay for it all (or indeed any). They have no legal liability to do so although they do tend to be the best of the volume manufacturers at CS so you may, if you are lucky, get a contribution .

[FROSTYBALLS]

Rather than being attacked, it is more about being realistic.

1. There doesn't appear to be any additional warranty or goodwill arrangement covering your steering rack issue.

2. Whether an independent inspection on the steering rack is undertaken or not will be irrelevant. If Toyota consider your approach for goodwill, they will do their own inspection of the steering rack and then ultimately decide whether they will help or not. 

3. You haven't got a full Toyota service history.  Irrespective of having Toyota servicing up to 74,000 miles, the car is now on 94,000, and any consideration of goodwill may be affected by the fact you haven't got a full Toyota service history.

4. If Toyota agree to any goodwill contribution, they will require the work to be undertaken by a Toyota dealership so they know what is done and that it is done correctly. Funding arrangements will already exist between Toyota and therir dealers. If you're expecting to have the work done by your mechanic and be reimbursed by Toyota, that won't happen.

 

 

[john_y]

4 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Rather than being attacked, it is more about being realistic.

1. There doesn't appear to be any additional warranty or goodwill arrangement covering your steering rack issue.

2. Whether an independent inspection on the steering rack is undertaken or not will be irrelevant. If Toyota consider your approach for goodwill, they will do their own inspection of the steering rack and then ultimately decide whether they will help or not. 

3. You haven't got a full Toyota service history.  Irrespective of having Toyota servicing up to 74,000 miles, the car is now on 94,000, and any consideration of goodwill may be affected by the fact you haven't got a full Toyota service history.

4. If Toyota agree to any goodwill contribution, they will require the work to be undertaken by a Toyota dealership so they know what is done and that it is done correctly. Funding arrangements will already exist between Toyota and therir dealers. If you're expecting to have the work done by your mechanic and be reimbursed by Toyota, that won't happen.

 

 

I am being completely realistic as I don't know 100% sure if there is an issue yet with the rack.

As previously explained in terms of the Block Exemption Regulations I do not require a full Toyota Service history.

I am a member of this forum to get help from people with more experience than I and give help where I have some knowledge they do not.

When Toyota and Lexus owners experienced their engines were failing because of head gaskets/ egr et al. issues they realised they were not alone by being member of forums such as this. They realised they has similar problems and and a positive outcome was achieved.

If anyone would like to give an idea why I am experiencing vibration problems, perhaps by suggesting a part or route of action I am vey happy to receive a personal message.

Otherwise, I consider this topic closed!

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Thread locked as requested.