Corolla Verso 2.2d-4d Sold A Pup?

[thesoupdragon]

Feeling a bit stressed,

Bought a 2.2 D-4D last weekend from a dealer in the midlands, Drove home without problem ( 200 miles ) Couple days later red temp light came on. It needed a good 1.5l coolant to top up the radiator. Did a 50 mile journey yesterday and just as getting home temp light came on again and it needed more coolant.

I noticed that the fan didn't come on.

The car has a service history every 10K or so and is a 57 plate with 74K on the clock.

I called the garage I bought it from and they weren't interested. I said I would like to return it for a refund after 5 days but they said " write me a letter"

I am obviously worried that it might be the cylinder head

it is going into my local Toyota garage this week for a diagnosis

Any suggestions much appreciated

SD

[Heidfirst]

you want to read up (if you haven't already) on the head gasket issue with 1AD & 2AD engines. it's covered in both the Avensis & RAV forums (probably Auris too).

As you bought from a dealer you should be covered by consumer protection laws (especially as you are reporting it to them so quickly).

[Heidfirst]

check that it isn't a leaking waterpump (not uncommon).

have the coolant sniff tested.

look for white/pink spotting around the expansion bottle.

[oldcodger]

Not a nice feeling if you think you have been duped.

Don't know about the cyliner head gasket problem on those engines, but if its loosing that much water I would first have a look and see if you can see any signs of leakage.

Water pumps can loose a lot of water with little signs, usually a hint of dried antifreeze just under it.

Is there a leak from the radiator or pipes, again look for obvious traces of dried fluid.

( but do not stick you head into the engine bay with the engine running in case anything blows off)

Look under the car in the morning to see of anything has dripped onto the drive/road

If its the cyliner head gasket, the classic signs are a white gunge in the oil filler cap and more than usual white steam from the exhaust.

What about the rest of the car , how good does it seem to you ?

Is it worth paying for a repair yourself if you want to keep it ?

As for your legal right, yes buying from a trader you should be able to reject the car or at least they have the option to repair the car for you.

Being distant does make things more difficult and I assume they are a small trader because of the way they replied to you.

Do write to them rejecting the car ( if you do want to do that) but send it signed for and keep copies /details of all your communications with them, inc phone calls.

Also contact your local Citizens Advice for help and also speak to Trading Standard office in the town where you bought it from, they might know of any previous problems with that trader and how likely / easy it will be to get any closer on the problem.

I recently had a repair done to my car, they made a total mess and it had to be redone.

Could have gone down that route of getting them to redo the job etc etc, but in the end it just was not worth all the time and money running backwards and forward / arguing with them, never mind the high blood pressure !

One last thing to check, on the MOT certificate ( hopefully you have one) it should have a box showiing the last 4 years mileage recording to show its not been clocked / the mileage is valid ?

good luck

[thesoupdragon]

OK worst fears confirmed by Toyota Garage, head gasket gone and therefore possibly the head too.

I have had this car for 1 week can I ask for refund?

Toyota guy said it should not have been sold to me

[oldcodger]

You really need to get qualified advice .

As mentioned CAB and Trading Standards are two sources.

Seems there are various other web / phone helpines or possibly using a solicitor if things get problematic.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_legalrights.html

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car

[Heidfirst]

OK worst fears confirmed by Toyota Garage, head gasket gone and therefore possibly the head too.

I have had this car for 1 week can I ask for refund?

Toyota guy said it should not have been sold to me

I would say so but you should seek qualified advice. Don't accept any offers of repair by them in the meantime (this could be seen as taking ownership plus they won't spend the money [£5-6k] to do it properly so would only reoccur).

Iirc the laws regarding your rights when buying a second hand car from a trader recently changed (to your advantage).

[Cyker]

Given the short time you've had it and the problems, you are well within your rights to return it as being Not Fit for Purpose.

The good thing about buying from a dealer is that you have some protection against them selling you a lemon.

If they're being difficult about it, it'd be worth documenting your findings and all the problems with pictures and send it to them by registered post so you have a paper trail should they be jerky about it.

Keeping records of any communication you have with them is also highly recommended.

[thesoupdragon]

Well it is now off road and I need transport!! I have taxed it insured it and filled the tank I guess it may have to be put onto a SORN??

[oldcodger]

SORN is for when you are keeping a car unused on private property Without Tax or Insurance.

It does not apply to you are you are legal with your tax and insurance.

Have you sought any help ?

Have you made formal contact with the Dealer about rejecting the car ?

Don't delay, get something in writing to them to back up any phone converstaions and send it special delivery ( signed for with receipt) so they cannot deny ever receiving your letters if you have to use solicitors or the courts to get your money back.

Edit - you can alway threaten them with Ann Robinson / Watchdog -she would scare anybody

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 comes into effect on 1st October 2015.

[Heidfirst]

btw Toyota says that the heads on these engines shouldn't be skimmed.

[oldcodger]

SoupDragon

You have Consumer Rights already but not sure exactly what these new Rights will give you extra, though for you now thats not applicable.

Importantly - how did you pay for the car ?

If you paid the full or any part of the amount on a credit card ( or less so a debit card) then I Believe you are covered by the credit card company, so if you cannot get your money back from the dealer then they will give you the money and they get there money back from the dealer.

As said earlier, if you did use a credit card, let them know straight away you are rejecting the card and the dealer is disputing this.

The more you delay it decreases you chances of a sucessful outcome.

Have you got someone with a jack Russell attitude who can help you deal with the seller ?

[thesoupdragon]

They have asked fr a chance to fix it so have said we have to return the car. It isn't driveable so I am going to have to have it transported at accost of £200 plus VAT

Not happy

[TomdeGuerre]

My advice would be to go along with this and have the vehicle returned to them. Friend of mine went through something the same with a Peugeot which had trouble right away with it misfiring but wound up they found the injectors were seized in the cylinder head. He was all for going in with guns blazing, demanding his money back and going to another dealer. I said to him hang on, you might have the ball at your foot. It's not as if all their stock is bad and they are usually keen to keep some kind of reputation. Talk to them about getting something else in place of the Citroen and see what they've got. He wound up getting a Passat estate which was a great car.

See how it goes, it's no good to you as it sits and you might get some progress this way. Litigation can be costly and by no means certain outcome. Best of luck.

[Heidfirst]

They have asked fr a chance to fix it so have said we have to return the car. It isn't driveable so I am going to have to have it transported at accost of £200 plus VAT

Not happy

How do they propose fixing it? Bear in mind that Toyota say that the head should not be skimmed & that Toyota's own sanctioned solution is essentially a replacement exchange engine (minus ancillaries) because of the root cause. Retail cost would be £5-6,000 if you could get the exchange engine (you can't) ...

What warranty are they proposing giving you on the work?

[thesoupdragon]

They seem to think a head gasket change will fix it. If it goes again I will then reject the car and ask for a full refund

[Heidfirst]

the gasket failed for a reason. simply replacing it (in the event that there hasn't been damage to block/head) without resolving the underlying cause will see it go again at some point (the garage will hope that this goes outside any comeback period that you may have).

Also, if you are letting them do this make sure that they use the correct coolant.

[thesoupdragon]

Thing I is they have the right to ask to fix it.

I am not too happy about it but its their call

[thesoupdragon]

If their customer service isn't good enough I will be more then happy to name and shame

[Aidan-]

The worst possible out come for you Thesoupdragon them looking to fix it( which they will do as cheap as possible), and i suppose you will get rid of it as soon as they fix it. Some poor git out there going get ripped of.

[thesoupdragon]

I need to run this for a couple of years. What is your suggestion?

[thesoupdragon]

Update, garage said they wanted the chance to fix the car. I shipped it back to them at my expense on a low loader Friday 14th August. 7 days later they haven't been in touch. I have texted with no reply and I called to be told it was in the workshop and they didn't know how long it would be. They now have my car and my cash. I am on holiday but am back at work Monday and need transport! What a terrible experience and a thoroughly appalling garage.

[Aidan-]

Yep not great service but you need to keep a cool head no pun intended :). I'm not sure where you stand but I can remember a tread like this a while back. Sorry I can't remember the out come but if you do search you might find it, it was over a head gasket failure on a newly purchased car hope every things goes well.

[thesoupdragon]

OK picked my corolla back today with a replaced head gasket, The sales guy said it had cost him £600 to have the work done and he had also replaced a "stuck" injector free of charge.

Great I thought.

He told me that he had forgotten to stamp my receipt with his "normal" stamp that shows that he has sold me a third party warranty that states that all claims are limited to £250 per claim. I told him I hadn't bought a warranty from him. I had the car three days it broke down and I had returned it to him under the sale of goods act. He asked me for £350 towards the repair but I declined his kind offer. He told me his solicitor had told him this is how it should be. Tough was my reply. It seems he is selling cars on a daily basis and is trying to pass off his obligations by selling third party warranties.

OK he said I will give you a refund for the car of £3500 I had paid juts over £4000 for it. I said if you give me a full refund I will accept it ad you will never see me again.

He called his solicitor and then came back to me and said it was his mistake for not stamping my receipt with the warranty terms and I could take the car.

I have given it a200 mile run and the oil and water next morning were looking OK, although getting the dipstick back in was a real challenge.

Thanks for all of your input guys

SD