T180 White Smoke

[Starlight Taxis]

Hi guys I'm hoping someone can help me here...

I have a 2008 57reg Avensis T180 that has started intermittently puffing out white smoke. Seems more prominent around 30mph just accelerating gently, sometimes just a little bit and sometime it bellows out! The other thing is it STINKS like kerosene / paraffin! But it's been smelling like that since before I noticed it smoking so I don't know if these things are related...

It had been suggested to me that it might be injectors, they were reconditioned not long ago but I gave it two consecutive courses of BG244 which I do every 10k with the service anyway (by far the best injector cleaner I've been told) but have had no improvement. I also removed the EGR valve and gave it a good clean (again which I always do routinely every 10k) but this also didn't give any improvement, and if it were EGR related I'd have expected it to flag up a fault code??? Which it hasn't! I also blocked the EGR off completely (knowing it would put the engine management light on) just to see if it would stop the smoking but it didn't stop it (incidentally it took about 250 miles for the engine management light to come on with the EGR capped and it didn't even go into limp).

I've had a diagnostics man on it and he couldn't find anything wrong with it, he said that although there are no fault codes it may be the DPF stuck on regen. He said the reason he thinks this is because if it were overfuelling the smoke would be black, and if it were burning oil the smoke would be blue, but white smoke usually indicates DPF (although I'm having absolutely NO loss of power or going into limp home mode at all). So like an idiot I spent over a grand putting a new DPF on it (£450 from Euro Car Parts plus labour plus £350 for a new sensor from Toyota that the garage couldn't get out of the old DPF because it was seized in solid)... Lo and behold this hasn't cured the problem!!!

It's on 285k now so I suppose I should really be thinking about replacing it, but apart from the smoking it's running absolutely sweet as a nut you'd think it was a new car. Only major work it's had done since I got it at 50k was the injectors.

Can anyone help here? I'm thinking next stage maybe get injectors reconditioned but I don't wanna keep throwing money at it. I don't mind spending money on it so long as I know it's definitely going to cure the problem.

[Duggerz]

That sounds very much like an injector issue to me esp with the white smoke, but just to be cautious, have you checked the coolant level isn't decreasing, and that there's no water in the oil or vice versa? If so, I'd take it to an Indy injector specialist for testing rather than just replacing the injectors, I think even recon ones will be quite a few hundred bucks. Does it start on all four in a morning?

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[frankie406]

Has it happened after you got the injectors reconditioned?

[Starlight Taxis]

Thanks for your input guys! No it didn't happen straight after having the injectors reconditioned, it's done a few thousand miles since then!

.

I haven't checked the water, I don't actually drive the car nowadays, it's a taxi and I've got someone else in it now while I drive something else. Are you thinking maybe head gasket then???

Why would it be smelling of kerosene? I've never had a diesel smell like that!

[Duggerz]

Diesel is actually very similar to kerosene although slightly heavier, and atomized unburned diesel will smell very much like kerosene, for example if an injector has a poor atomisation pattern. The head gasket would be a lesser possibility but may be accommodated by coolant/oil loss or contamination. If coolant were being lost down the exhaust though it would smell sweet due to the glycol. Favorite then at this point is injectors, maybe the reconditioning was not of such great quality?

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[Starlight Taxis]

Duggerz - Thanks for the chemistry lesson LOL. I'll check the oil and water levels and cross contamination later, thanks for the advice, would be nice if we can rule that out! Although don't you think it's strange for one of these to get to 285k without having done a head gasket? I hear it's a common fault before 100k!

To be fair, although I say the injectors were done not long ago, they've probably covered around 100k in that short time because of the mileage this car is doing! I used an injector specialist widely regarded among the local motor trade as the best in the area, so I don't think there's a problem there with the quality of the recon, just may be time to get them done again!

And sorry I just realised I didn't answer your question about firing on all 4... I'm not really driving it, but haven't had any complaints from the driver about it, but surely if this were the case it would be obvious (audibly and lack of power)???

So the general consensus here is, if the oil and water appear to be ok, get the injectors tested? But surely if there were an injector problem it'd log a fault code???

[Duggerz]

Sorry if I started the obvious, I have a BSc in chemistry so I suppose I overdid it! There will only be a code logged if a sensor detects out of range or an error, whereas poor injector performance might not trigger that, and I see it's a 2007 so no dpf to get clogged. Certainly that's a lot of mileage for any vehicle, and for one of these not to need a head gasket, bit but no means unique I'm sure. The head gasket issue only affected a small percentage of vehicles I understand. There may be others here with more experience that can offer an alternative, but right now I think there's only one place that unburned diesel can come from, and it can't really be pump timing because that's all electronic at the injectors and won't vary unless the ecu has been modified or a tuning box fitted. The one other possibility is a head gasket failure between cylinders, but you would definitely notice a power drop there. A compression test would be the only way to rule that out. Hope my ramblings help in some way!

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[Starlight Taxis]

LOL no that's very helpful, thank you for the input!

So poor injector performance wouldn't necessarily cause loss of power? 'cos I'm telling you this thing goes like the clappers still!

By the way it DOES have a DPF which has just been changed for a Euro Car Parts reman one, it's the T180 model which I believe they all had DPFs even the earlier ones, but this was registered January 2008 so is a 57reg

[Heidfirst]

it's not a conventional DPF but Toyota's DPNR which uses a 5th injector.

[Starlight Taxis]

Yeah that's why my diagnostics bloke thought the smoke might be being caused by the 5th injector stuck on constantly squirting diesel, apparently it's common on the Crafter/Sprinter vans.

[frankie406]

White smoke occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include

Faulty or damaged injectors

Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).

Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)

When white smoke occurs at cold start, and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing. Use of our Flushing Oil Concentrateand FTC Decarbonizer address these respective problems.

Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame. Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.

[avensisd4d786]

Hi mate. this may be worth a look (thanks to devon aygo a man in the know)

There is a TSB ( technical service bulletin ) from Toyota ref # EG-0004T-0110-EN which describes: (note the bulletin only relates too T180 2.2 diesel Rav4, Verso, Avensis & Auris with Diesel particulate filters )

"DESCRIPTION OF PHENOMENON

Some customers may explain about intermittent white smoke from the exhaust"

There is a specific set of checks which need to carried out, checking the correct operation of:

If a DTC ( will set a warning light ) is present then attend to that fault before continuing with the following checks:

5th injector ( fires fuel into the DPNR during regeneration ) looking to see if it is within specification.

Air intake system, looking for air leaks, ensuring air filter is clean/clear

MAF system ( measures air flow and air temp into engine ) looking to see if it is within specification.

EGR system, looking too see if valve is clear and closing correctly when required & check exhaust system for gas leaks.

If any of the above are faulty then they need to be repaired / replaced, once the above are OK or if they check out then the engine ECU software needs to updated to a newer version. Once this is done the car has to be road tested and a forced regeneration of the DPNR needs to be completed, if after this the smoking has stopped then that's it all fixed, if not then a new DPNR will be needed.

There is a technical service bulletin from Toyota reference EG-0004T-0110-EN which states;

DESCRIPTION OF PHENOMENON

Some customers may explain about white smoke from the exhaust. Auris, Avensis, Verso & Rav4 equipped DPNR equipped vehicles only!

PRODUCTION CHANGE

The ECU software has been improved

The bulletin describes a diagnosis process checking: Stored fault codes, 5th injector operation, inspection of intake/exhaust for air leaks, Calculation MAF information, Cleaning/Clearing EGR & intake manifold of carbon, Reprogramming of the engine ECU with updated software and finally a confirmation of DPNR operation.

Usually the issue is fixed with the ECU reprogramme

PRODUCTION CHANGE

The ECU software has been improved.

The bulletin requires the correct operation of:

5th injector, replace if faulty

Check for air leaks, repair as required

Confirm air intake volume, replace air filter if out of spec

Check MAF operation, replace MAF is faulty

Check EGR operation, clean or replace as required

Check intake manifold for blockage, clean if clogged

Carry out forced DPNR regeneration, if regen fails replace DPNR

If any of the above are out of spec then they need attention then a reprogramming of the ECU with updated software is required, if they are all OK just the software update is required.

[frankie406]

Found that on the Web. So could be your 5th injector.was that also refurbished?

[Starlight Taxis]

Ok so I've just gone over to the drivers house to have another look at it myself, here are my findings:

I've read on another post about the head gasket going; to look out for white spots/stains on the black plastic engine cover and also a blacked-up expansion tank...

There aren't any white spots as such on the engine cover, there are sort of white-ish marks on it but I'm pretty sure this is normal on any engine cover from where rain water gets in and then dries on the cover with dust/dirt leaving a white-ish water mark.

I wouldn't say the expansion tank is completely blacked-up, but it is a little bit dirty inside, it's not a completely clear view inside from the outside, not sure if this is normal?

Oil level was low, just above the min mark, but this could just be from normal oil usage. Oil cap had no signs of water / white creamy deposits, and neither were there any visible inside the engine from the oil filler.

HOWEVER the water level was VERY low, there wasn't even ANYTHING at all in the expansion tank and it took about 2 litres to get up to max. Started it from cold (not stone cold but hadn't been used in a good few hours so was just slightly warm) and by the time I got the bonnet open and undone the expansion tank cap I got a little psht of air, don't know if this is normal to do this in that short amount of time? I know they always do a little psht anyway even on a healthy system, but after 15 seconds, is that normal?

Couldn't see if any oil was in the water as I had just put 2 litres of fresh water in so hadn't had time to circulate.

I stuck my thumb in the expansion tank filler neck, after only 10 seconds it was giving a small psht, stick my thumb in for about 30-40 seconds and it was giving quite a big psht. Normal?

All input gratefully received!

[Starlight Taxis]

Regarding the 5th injector - I'm not sure if this was reconditioned. Is it a separate part of the DPNF that can easily be removed?

If yes, I'd hazard a guess that a reconditioned one did not come with the DPNF I got from Euros and my garage removed the old one from the old DPNF and put it in the new one.

If no, I'd hazard a guess the reconditioned DPNF would have had the injector reconditioned as standard?

[Duggerz]

The combination of low water level and pressurising of the expansion tank suggests head gasket failure, but water leaks should also be eliminated. A sniffer would be able to tell you if there is carbon monoxide in the cooling system but really if you run the engine for a short while (while cold of course) then slowly release the filler cap, any appreciable escaping of gas is due to head gasket failure between the combustion and a water gallery.

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[frankie406]

You say you have someone else in it driving as a taxi?is this person using diesel ?and not heating oil or a mix?

[Starlight Taxis]

Ok thanks for that Duggerz! I also forgot to mention, I had a good old sniff of the expansion tank and it smelt like... a barbecue! LOL I'm sorry I know that's not a very technical explanation but that's honestly exactly what it smelt like!

If we're looking at a head gasket failure - I know you can get RadWeld that's good for sealing any leaks in the coolant system (not sure about head gaskets!), and K-Seal even claims to fix head gaskets... There's an EVEN BETTER product than K-Seal made by an American company called Abro, it's made of copper and silicone and is an additive you put in the coolant system. Only thing with this Abro product is you have to completely drain and flush the coolant system with fresh water as any antifreeze will react with the additive and cause it not to work.

Anyone have an opinion on whether this could be a viable option for a cheap fix? Or am I dreaming and the claims of these products fixing head gaskets untrue?

[Starlight Taxis]

Frankie - it was smelling of kerosene when I used to drive it as my main car (although it wasn't smoking back then). I'm pretty sure using anything other than DERV you'd soon find out about it? I understand modern injectors are very sensitive to any fuel other than DERV and soon block up! I know a bloke who buggered his injectors on a Mk3 Mondeo 2.0 TDCi through using red diesel...

[Starlight Taxis]

Well to answer your question - I wouldn't lay my life on it, but I'd be VERY surprised if she was putting anything other than DERV from a pump in it...

[frankie406]

Just a thought...I know someone who uses a heating oil mix in his 320d BMW with 187k on it and no issues.so it's 1 of the other things then that's been posted.id try the cheapest options 1st and see.good luck with it.

[Starlight Taxis]

Thanks Frankie. That really surprises me about the BMW! Won't hurt to ask her the question, I'll send her a text now, chances are in the unlikely event she is putting something strange in the tank she's probably not going to own up to it LOL. She is really complaining about the smoking, she doesn't want a different car because she really loves the Avensis (as I said it's a lovely motor and runs like a dream save for the smoking), so if she were putting something odd in the tank I think she'd put 2 and 2 together and try it without. I've got an 11reg Zafira and a 60reg Mondeo I've offered to her (both with less than 70-80k) but she wants to stick with the Avensis for some reason she just really likes it (probably something to do with the 180 geegees LOL), so I think if she was doing something to cause the smoking she'd want it to stop...

[Starlight Taxis]

Mind you, how old is that 320d you're talking about? I thought that, as a rule, anything pre-2000(ish) is good for red diesel or heating oil or veg oil, and post-2000(ish) and you're probably asking for trouble...

Dunno how accurate that statement is!

[frankie406]

Yeah I know the feeling I'd to fight tooth and nail to get mine back off the missus.though mines just a 116bhp...check out the coolant top it up and the oil and take it a thrashing and see if that helps?

[frankie406]

I think it's a 2003?he mixes heating oil and diesel.