Are Brake Calipers Covered By The 5 Year Warranty?

[valmiki]

Sorry for the preamble...

Last January (due to the car having sat in the garage for too long without use) I had problems getting my wife's Auris hybrid out. Car went into Ready mode just fine, but any amount of wellie just wasn't getting the car moving. The brakes had stuck - on top of which the car was parked facing into the garage. Reversing with full throttle wasn't even budging it. In the end I had to use the throttle going forward in Drive and as the brakes pulled apart the car shot forward which resulted to some minor scratches to the front bumper. Great, lol.

Seems a common issue on the Toyota hybrids to have problems with calipers, since brakes hardly ever get used, coupled with the car left not being used!

Anyway fast forward to now, no brake related problems since, even passed the MOT in April with no issues. Now, the car's booked in next week for the latest Aurus recall, and I thought I'd give the garage a quick ring and ask if they did anything like a brake service to grease the calipers (that's all I really wanted doing). £45 for an inspection and an extra £45 if anything needs doing. I declined (seemed a bit too much just to get the pins greased!), but the service advisor was keen to at least give the brakes a visual inspection for safety reasons.

If they did do it and the calipers are knackered, would calipers be covered by the 5 year warranty?

Not really a consumable item like pads and discs are they, or am I being just a tad naive?

[CPN]

I would have thought malfunctioning calipers (if they are) would be covered but you have just highlighted nicely why I never use the handbrake on my Yaris Hybrid for parking; especially for long periods in the garage on level ground...

[valmiki]

Neither do I! Can only assume that the brakes pressurised when I went to start the car (pressing the brake pedal and pressing start), and then stuck. Or something lol

[CPN]

Hmm... I wonder if you somehow managed to turn "on" the hill start procedure? (which would result in the same thing...)

[valmiki]

No, I know you have to press the brakes really hard for that, and I was also scoping the dash for any lights that could have explained why I was frozen.

[Dancing Badger]

I had a rear caliper stick on my Prius last year, causing excessive wear to the pads and disc. Hadn't noticed it in driving (the car is used every day), they spotted it when it was in for a service.

I have the extended warranty, and asked the dealer to claim. They paid for the caliper, but refused to cover the disc and pads as they said that was wear and not covered. I argued that the wear was excessive and directly attributable to a fault which was covered, but although the dealer felt it was a fair point Toyota weren't having it. So hopefully the caliper will be covered for Valmiki's car.

[timberwolf]

I reckon stuck calipers are always due to poor maintenance by the dealer. Inspection is what they are supposed to do during a service. If you want them to strip and clean the front brakes then ask them to do just that.

[valmiki]

yeah timberwolf, I would do that, except they want £90 to do it - and i could get a new set of pads fitted for not much more than that! (under the fixed price scheme)

[YarisHybrid2016]

I know the brake system is different, and there are things to be aware of on hybrids, but in terms of the actual brakes themselves at the wheels, are they any different from a "normal" car? If not, I might due to some preventative maintenance when I receive mine.

Regarding P mode, how does this work? Is it a transmission lock, or an actual parking brake (Yaris Hybrid)?

[CPN]

Think "P" for Pawl... It's an actual transmission lock on the output shaft of the final drive. (i.e. do NOT try engaging it whilst moving if you don't want to break something...)

[YarisHybrid2016]

hahaha! Don't worry! :D

Is it OK to use only the pawl for parking (i.e. the load of the vehicle if on a slight incline won't damage anything)? I always apply the handbrake when parking as a backup, but never been sure if the transmission lock is robust enough on its own.

[valmiki]

Also means that you can never leave a hybrid parked in neutral, the pawl always kicks in when the car is switched off

[timberwolf]

yeah timberwolf, I would do that, except they want £90 to do it - and i could get a new set of pads fitted for not much more than that! (under the fixed price scheme)

If I recall, I paid £45 for the same job. The circumstances were a little different, my car went in for service and was returned broken.

[johalareewi]

Think "P" for Pawl... It's an actual transmission lock on the output shaft of the final drive. (i.e. do NOT try engaging it whilst moving if you don't want to break something...)

On the gen3 Prius, if you press P while moving, you go into N (unless you are going less than 3 mph in which case the pawl engages :O ). I imagine other toyota hybrids behave in a similar way.

[CPN]

It's more of a mechanical linkage on the Yaris... (as opposed to a micro switch)

[timberwolf]

It's more of a mechanical linkage on the Yaris... (as opposed to a micro switch)

It will still have a micro-switch for Park, because the hybrid drive has to be in particular state before the parking pawl is moved by an actuator.

[CPN]

I guessed that might have been the case but it certainly feels "different" in actual use when compared to (say) the Auris Hybrid... Once or twice I've attempted to engage P too early whilst the car was still inching forward and it engages with quite a "clunk" stopping the car instantly... (haven't done it since cause it sounded a bit nasty! ;) )

[kithmo]

I know the brake system is different, and there are things to be aware of on hybrids, but in terms of the actual brakes themselves at the wheels, are they any different from a "normal" car? If not, I might due to some preventative maintenance when I receive mine.

Regarding P mode, how does this work? Is it a transmission lock, or an actual parking brake (Yaris Hybrid)?

Physically the brakes are the same as normal cars. The problem is if you pressurise the brake fluid by pushing the pads back you could damage the brake pressurising system and if you lower the pressure by releasing fluid from the brake nipple, you will initiate a low brake pressure fault code. The electronics on the brakes are live even when the car is off, the only way to circumvent the fault code occuring is to disconnect the 12v Battery and pump the brake pressure back up before re-connecting. Toyota use Techstream to switch off the sensors when they work on the hybrid brakes. If you can dismantle the pads and sliders etc without moving the pistons back then you should be able to lubricate them without incident.

[PeteB]

I guessed that might have been the case but it certainly feels "different" in actual use when compared to (say) the Auris Hybrid... Once or twice I've attempted to engage P too early whilst the car was still inching forward and it engages with quite a "clunk" stopping the car instantly... (haven't done it since cause it sounded a bit nasty! ;) )

All the Hybrids will engage P at 3-4 mph - resulting in an uncomfortable lurching backwards and forwards a couple of times. I've only done it a couple of times in the 13 years (and over ¼ million miles) of driving Hybrids - and the last one was several years ago.. It didn't cause any problems, but it's not something I'd want to repeat very often!

[YarisHybrid2016]

I know the brake system is different, and there are things to be aware of on hybrids, but in terms of the actual brakes themselves at the wheels, are they any different from a "normal" car? If not, I might due to some preventative maintenance when I receive mine.

Regarding P mode, how does this work? Is it a transmission lock, or an actual parking brake (Yaris Hybrid)?

Physically the brakes are the same as normal cars. The problem is if you pressurise the brake fluid by pushing the pads back you could damage the brake pressurising system and if you lower the pressure by releasing fluid from the brake nipple, you will initiate a low brake pressure fault code. The electronics on the brakes are live even when the car is off, the only way to circumvent the fault code occuring is to disconnect the 12v Battery and pump the brake pressure back up before re-connecting. Toyota use Techstream to switch off the sensors when they work on the hybrid brakes. If you can dismantle the pads and sliders etc without moving the pistons back then you should be able to lubricate them without incident.

Hmm. Not a problem I suppose, but it does prevent preventative maintenance in a way.

I'd rather stop a problem occurring, than deal with it when it does.

[Ethanedwards]

Can I just take issue with the assertion made by Valmiki in the first post that it's common for Hybrids to have Brake Caliper problems?

Not in my experience it isn't.

My 62 plate Yaris HSD has now done 49,000 miles absolutely trouble free. When I put it away wet the calipers have stuck on (exactly the same as any other car will) but I have had no problems unsticking them. No better / No worse.

I do 20K miles a year most in my Yaris and it's been one of the most reliable pleasing to drive and certainly economical cars that has ever been my pleasure to own (using my own hard earned I might add,...not an allowance etc). So much so that whilst I usually after two / three years I punt them on and buy another. This time round I've decided to keep it a few more years.

First MOT test (and 50K service) is this Thursday so fingers crossed the old girl will be with me for another couple of years at least.

[valmiki]

Yeah...I wish. My wife and I do barely 10k a year, and both cars have periods where they are stood around for 2-3 weeks. Not ideal use for any car I guess! But there's plenty on various forums for older hybrids having problems as brakes are not used as much as in normal cars.

[Ethanedwards]

Well I just searched Honest John's forum and I couldn't find it mentioned at all. Is it really such a hot button issue? Have to doubt it.

Imo your usage pattern would probably cause the same issue in any car.

[valmiki]

Have a look at Prius Chat, plenty on there. As luck would have it might want to have a chat with this guy too! ;-) http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/169185-toyota-service-plan-and-main-dealer-servicing/#entry1394162

As it happens the car came back yesterday, the result of the free 'visual check' was that everything is ok No need to release Mr. Angry for now ;-)

[Ethanedwards]

First off that's the Prius - I have a Yaris. Second it brought out 159 threads, an awful lot of which seem to be about prettying them up / painting /installing cosmetic covers etc.

From reading the others it seems to me they are nearly always referring to 'sliding calipers' not the regular kind.

I agree sliding calipers can be a poor design but properly serviced...they do work.

My vehicles are properly serviced and I have had no issues. When I pulled cars apart myself many years ago I had a vehicle with sliding calipers and it was not an issue. I still believe your broad assertion that all Hybrids have Brake caliper issues to be at best somewhat of an exaggeration.

Your usage pattern is causing your issues. Hope it works out for you. ;)